Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods"

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Yeah, they kind of had the right dialogue right there, they even could have went with "this is what I call Super Saiyain 3". But since the whole point of that scene was Goku feeling like a showoff, I can take it.

[KentalSSJ6]

It could be a matter of flaps maybe, but who knows. Also, what exactly have they pulled in Attack on Titan? I'm a few episodes behind, but what I've seen thus far is all pretty much exactly what I got out of the manga, so...

The review on Anime News Network goes into detail on the matter. Site is down at the moment but look up its review when you can and you'll see.

[jjgp1112]

Fairly certain someone took a little liberty with the translation there, because wasn't it "strongest" (saikyo) in the Japanese version?

Yeah...I'm kinda worried about their translations already, especially after the crap they pulled with Shingeki No Kyojin.

People who saw the LA showing said it was pretty accurate, and I've already compared the other scenes Funi's shown and they're pretty close as well.

And really, who cares? He said 'Legendary.' So what? It was an adjective in this context and probably used to fill the mouth flaps in a logical manner.

[Mewzard]

In the context of the situation (Goku talking himself up in a moment of arrogance), calling his strongest form "legendary" makes sense and is fine. it's not the literal translation, but it works when wanting to keep to the lip flaps (though I would be amused by a joke Old Kung Fu Movie Dub of Dragon Ball Z).

Let's be honest, nobody would be complaining (or notice) if it weren't for Broli and his "Legendary Super Saiyan" nonsense. Broli never happened, just keep telling yourself that, and the world's a better place. He's just the imagination of someone who wanted power to be Maximum.

Man, I hope I can get tickets for my birthday. Would be awesome to see in theaters...

[sintzu]

How much do you all think it will make in the US/Canada ?

[ShadowDude112]

"Hold on to your bananas, Bubbles!"
That felt like a bad joke from the early Z dub. Come on, FUNi. Don't pull that with us. Please.

[TheGmGoken]

Fairly certain someone took a little liberty with the translation there, because wasn't it "strongest" (saikyo) in the Japanese version?

Yeah...I'm kinda worried about their translations already, especially after the crap they pulled with Shingeki No Kyojin.

Trust me. The Hero Tales dub is war worst than AoT and is on par with Boo Arc Z dubbing.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

The English dub of Battle of Gods is screening in NZ and AUS for one day only as part of Reel Anime. August 30th is the day, so mark your calendars!
http://www.reelanime.com/
I know I'm going!

[TheDevilsCorpse]

"Hold on to your bananas, Bubbles!"
That felt like a bad joke from the early Z dub. Come on, FUNi. Don't pull that with us. Please.

A line like that coming from anyone else and I'd probably have a problem with it, but it's coming from the literal king of bad jokes.

[Kendamu]

Fairly certain someone took a little liberty with the translation there, because wasn't it "strongest" (saikyo) in the Japanese version?

Yeah...I'm kinda worried about their translations already, especially after the crap they pulled with Shingeki No Kyojin.

People who saw the LA showing said it was pretty accurate, and I've already compared the other scenes Funi's shown and they're pretty close as well.

And really, who cares? He said 'Legendary.' So what? It was an adjective in this context and probably used to fill the mouth flaps in a logical manner.

And I stand by the fact that I said the dub was mostly accurate. There are a couple of things I've pointed out since then that weren't exact or kind of snuck in, but I also don't have a firm enough grasp of Japanese to tell you if the subs I read were super accurate or just pretty good. Same goes for this dub. It goes along with what I mainly heard and read from the Japanese version. There's nothing super crazy like asking for a countdown, singing about cat food, or other random added dialogue when we can only see the back of a character's head.

[qjz123]

It could be a matter of flaps maybe, but who knows. Also, what exactly have they pulled in Attack on Titan? I'm a few episodes behind, but what I've seen thus far is all pretty much exactly what I got out of the manga, so...

The review on Anime News Network goes into detail on the matter. Site is down at the moment but look up its review when you can and you'll see.

Here's one of the changes
Japanese subtitles: "That day, humanity received a grim reminder... of the terror of being ruled by Them... of the humiliation of being kept in a cage."

English dub: "And just like that, everything changed. At that terrible moment, in our hearts, we knew... "home" was a pen... and humanity, cattle."

Theres more on the site. Now with that said even with the changes the reviewer still liked the dub and he gave it a A-. Heres what he had to say about it

It's not flawless, but Attack on Titan's dub is raw in the best way, successful at yanking out heartstrings and more impressively, maintaining the show's healthy sense of humor. It's ultimately more interesting for its peccadillos, and the end result is one of the strongest dubs heard in many years, especially considering that it's in its infancy in these first five episodes.

[Ajay]

It's not flawless, but Attack on Titan's dub is raw in the best way, successful at yanking out heartstrings and more impressively, maintaining the show's healthy sense of humor. It's ultimately more interesting for its peccadillos, and the end result is one of the strongest dubs heard in many years, especially considering that it's in its infancy in these first five episodes.

I gave up on attempting to enjoy the dub after about 5 episodes. It suffers the same issues that the Neon Genesis Evangelion dub has. Emotionally broken characters just sound whiny instead of actually troubled and genuinely messed up. Yūki Kaji's screams and the overall intensity of the performance totally give the impression that this character is suffering - losing his mother, dealing with his newfound powers, being used by higher ups, and essentially abandoned by his father. Bryce Papenbrook tries his best but it's not believable. He just comes across as a whiny teen rather than someone facing real struggle.

A lot of it is script related - it's one of those shows that's mostly accurate but takes liberties in areas that it really shouldn't. Eren talking from the point of view of a titan? Nope, they changed that. Again, relating back to my point about coming across as whiny, ANN actually put up a nice comparison that demonstrates it nicely.

Sub Eren: "Why did I waste my final minutes with her having some stupid argument? Now she's gone...she's never coming back!"
Dub Eren: "Why was I always such a brat? Why did I always fight her? And I never said 'I love you!' Now I'll never get to! Never!"

It's the same point being put across essentially but it's a different type of character. The dub line is exceptionally over the top to the point that it's almost theatrical. "And I never said 'I love you!'". C'mon.

It's a fine dub that'll certainly launch it into the mainstream in the same way that shows like Fullmetal Alchemist have broken through. It's just not good enough to really stand up next to the greats.

I think that Super Saiyan demonstration clip is pretty weak but certainly not for script reasons though. I think the inclusion of 'legendary' is pretty silly given the connotations of the word in the franchise but it's not the end of the world. I'm just not particularly fond of Schemmel's performance. He sounds so excessively gruff and smug; I'm just not getting Goku from that voice. I'm seeing the character on screen and hearing that voice and it's so dissonant. Goku's expressions just don't fit with what's coming of his mouth. There's no childlike edge to the performance that makes sense with the slightly goofy faces he's pulling.

I actually really enjoyed the clip of Whis explaining the demise of Freeza to Beerus though. Great performances all around there! I wasn't really sure how I felt about Douglas' humourous side of Beerus given the weak pudding scene but I enjoyed his 'Super Saiyan God' bit a lot.

I get the feeling I'm going to walk away from this dub feeling unfulfilled. Every clip has felt so inconsistent from the next that I really do think the rush job on this film is really coming through. I mean, sheesh, they were still adding filters to Goku's voice the day before the premiere!

[Herms]

Fairly certain someone took a little liberty with the translation there, because wasn't it "strongest" (saikyo) in the Japanese version?

Yeah, it's "the strongest/the mightiest" in Japanese. I guess they figured that wouldn't scan in English though. Maybe something like "and, greatest of all, Super Saiyan 3!" would have been better? That probably wouldn't fit the mouth flaps though. Stupid mouth flaps.

The scene where Whis explains everything is all quite accurate, so I really wouldn't worry too much about the dub's overall accuracy.

"Hold on to your bananas, Bubbles!"
That felt like a bad joke from the early Z dub. Come on, FUNi. Don't pull that with us. Please.

A line like that coming from anyone else and I'd probably have a problem with it, but it's coming from the literal king of bad jokes.

I don't mind the joke so much, but Kaio's Funi dub voice still sounds absolutely awful. Not looking forward to any scene with him in it.

Schemmel's Goku sounds OK though. Not great, but OK. Beerus and Whis' voices sound better and better to me. I know it's been said a million times before, but the modern state of the Funi dub (as in Kai, BoG, games, and any other DB things they dub these days) is pretty much "far better than it used to be, but still bogged down by a lot of the mistakes they made starting out". Schemmel's Goku or Sabat's Vegeta may have improved bit by bit over the years, but give the modern Funi crew brand new characters to start with from square one, and the casting/acting/characterization/etc all run circles around what they do with the old characters.

[jjgp1112]

I mean seriously...

Japanese: Firstly, this is Super Saiyan. Secondly, Super Saiyan 2. And finally, the strongest, Super Saiyan 3!
English: First, I have to go Super Saiyan. And then next I go on up to Super Saiyan 2. Now, finally comes the one you've been waiting for...the legendary Super Saiyan 3!

Japanese: This is surprising. Seems that you weren't bluffing.
English: Well, this is a surprise. It seems like all of that Super Saiyan talk wasn't a bunch of hot air after all.

Japanese: Isn't that right? Shall I go back to Super Saiyan 2?
English: Not bad, huh? But if you want, I can dial it back to 2 for ya!

And yet all of this talk over one word... And also, Schemmel has said that he always gives Super Saiyan 3/4 a deeper, gruffer voice than the other forms.

[Ajay]

I mean seriously...

Japanese: Firstly, this is Super Saiyan. Secondly, Super Saiyan 2. And finally, the Legendary Super Saiyan 3!
English: First, I have to go Super Saiyan. And then next I go on up to Super Saiyan 2. Now, finally comes the one you've been waiting for...the Legendary Super Saiyan 3!

And yet all of this talk over one word... And also, Schemmel has said that he always gives Super Saiyan 3/4 a deeper, gruffer voice than the other forms.

Huh? He doesn't say 'legendary' in Japanese. He says something akin to 'This is my strongest form...Super Saiyan 3!'.

He does always give it a gruffer voice than other forms but I don't think that makes it okay. It definitely doesn't make much sense in this context especially. He's playing around, it's not some big Superman moment like Schemmel seems to be playing it as.

I mean, just look at this face!



But yeah, it doesn't really matter. I don't think anyone's really saying the dub is inaccurate. It's just a bit of an odd line and that's something to talk about. Unless you mean those other examples are worse and should be paid more attention to?

[jjgp1112]

^Sorry! For some reason, the "Legendary" line was in my head as I typed it and it came out. Fixed.

[ParkerAL]

I'm all for accuracy in dub translations, but I think some of the issues people have with the script changes here are a little finicky. Obviously the English dub will never be a word-for-word translation of the original Japanese. The need to match mouth flaps rules that option out from the start. If you want a more accurate translation, stick with the subs. The point of the dub isn't necessarily to translate the Japanese anyway, but provide a representation of it in English. A poster over at Funimation's forum described the point of a dub rather well some time ago, and since he/she said it much better than I could, I'll go ahead and re-post their argument here:

The dub should definitely be a poetic representation of the original Japanese. If what you wanted was a translation, then the subs are good enough. There's no reason for complete redundancy

On top of that, there NEEDS to be script creativity in order to properly fill scenes with context that makes sense to us as a Western culture. Keeping honorifics intact through an English reversion, for example, is complete and utter tartar sauce that smells like rancid dressing. There are all kinds of cultural jokes, even, that simply won't make sense to your average anime viewer, such as any Boys Be Ambitious joke

English is extremely superfluous while Japanese is relatively brief and succinct. It makes sense in Japan, where brevity is preferred and repetition isn't considered tiresome (and in a lot of cases, is considered to be a point of humor), but to restrict English to a smaller vocabulary without employing its greatest strength - synonyms and slang - makes localization a total waste of time. A Japanese man yelling OPPAI three times per episode can be funny in the right language, but you're doing yourself a major disservice if you're leaving that that as it is without some euphemism that is far more engaging and entertaining

I think Tatum said it best during one of the Steins;Gate commentaries when he talked about how his job as a script writer is to write the script in a way that properly captures the FEEL of the original show's script. You can translate a joke, but if it's not funny to Americans, they aren't going to laugh, and the feel of that scene is lost forever in that translation. It's very important to write the script in a way that very closely matches how the Japanese audience reacts to the script in their own language, and that is the basic essence of what "localization" is all about

Source

[Ajay]

I do agree, ParkerAL, a dub is always going to be an adaptation of the Japanese but I do think making sure alterations are contextually correct is very important.

A 'Legendary Super Saiyan' is already a pre-established notion in the universe. It's mentioned by Freeza, in certain works it's Broli and in others its Bardock. Regardless of what you take to be canon or relevant, it's a very specific term. To use 'the legendary Super Saiyan 3' in this context just seems very jarring and out of place.

Understandably they likely wanted it to be this hyperbolic description of such a powerful form but there's a multitude of different words that could have been used. I refuse to believe that 'strongest' or some variation of the word couldn't have been worked into a sentence to match the mouth flaps.

[qjz123]

It's not flawless, but Attack on Titan's dub is raw in the best way, successful at yanking out heartstrings and more impressively, maintaining the show's healthy sense of humor. It's ultimately more interesting for its peccadillos, and the end result is one of the strongest dubs heard in many years, especially considering that it's in its infancy in these first five episodes.

I gave up on attempting to enjoy the dub after about 5 episodes. It suffers the same issues that the Neon Genesis Evangelion dub has. Emotionally broken characters just sound whiny instead of actually troubled and genuinely messed up. Yūki Kaji's screams and the overall intensity of the performance totally give the impression that this character is suffering - losing his mother, dealing with his newfound powers, being used by higher ups, and essentially abandoned by his father. Bryce Papenbrook tries his best but it's not believable. He just comes across as a whiny teen rather than someone facing real struggle.

A lot of it is script related - it's one of those shows that's mostly accurate but takes liberties in areas that it really shouldn't. Eren talking from the point of view of a titan? Nope, they changed that. Again, relating back to my point about coming across as whiny, ANN actually put up a nice comparison that demonstrates it nicely.

Sub Eren: "Why did I waste my final minutes with her having some stupid argument? Now she's gone...she's never coming back!"
Dub Eren: "Why was I always such a brat? Why did I always fight her? And I never said 'I love you!' Now I'll never get to! Never!"

It's the same point being put across essentially but it's a different type of character. The dub line is exceptionally over the top to the point that it's almost theatrical. "And I never said 'I love you!'". C'mon.

It's a fine dub that'll certainly launch it into the mainstream in the same way that shows like Fullmetal Alchemist have broken through. It's just not good enough to really stand up next to the greats.

Here are some more comparison between the two. Does it take liberties yes but with a show as big as this 9 times out of 10 the viewer has already seen this content before seeing Funimations dub. It's better for them to try and make it their own while still getting the same material a cross. That makes it more entertaining for both old and new viewers in my opinion. J. Micheal Tatum wrote the scripts for the show I believe he also wrote the scripts for Kai at least through the Freeza saga, we saw what he did with Freeza's dialog he took his fair share of liberties with it and in my opinion it worked out for the better and in my opinion the same applies too Attack on Titans dub.

Japanese Sub: From the moment we're born, we're all… …free… Some might try to deny that, but it doesn't matter how strong they are! Fiery waters… Lands of ice… Or whatever else! Whoever gets to see those things will have the greatest freedom this world has to offer! Fight! If anything is worth giving your life, it's that! It doesn't matter how terrifying the world may be! It doesn't matter how cruel the world may be! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

English dub: We're born free, all of us. Free! Some don't believe it, Some try to take it away. Too hell with them! Water like fire, Mountains of ice, the whole bit. Lay your eyes on that and you'll know what freedom is, that it's worth fighting for! Fight to live! Risk it all for even a glimmer of real freedom! It doesn't matter whats waiting outside the gate or what comes in! It doesn't matter how cruel the world can be or how unjust! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

[DarkPrince_92]

Aren't we getting carried away? Don't we also have to consider the mouth flaps with dialogue? So if the english adaptation makes some minor alterations but convey the same message, what's the issue?