Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

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Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by RazorX » Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:31 pm

General Discussion for Dragon Ball Kai episode 116, broadcast 10 August 2014

解けた封印!? 悟飯抵抗のかめはめ波
Toketa Fūin!? Gohan no Teikō no Kamehameha
The Seal is Broken!? Gohan's Kamehameha of Resistance


PLEASE SAVE DISCUSSION FOR AFTER THE EPISODE HAS BROADCAST

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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by Hujio » Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:53 pm

I appreciate the help, but normally a staff member will make the weekly Kai thread, as we sticky and lock it until the appropriate time. In fact, I had created a thread without even noticing you had already done so.
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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by RazorX » Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:35 pm

Decent episode

Covered more of the Goku vs Majin Vegeta fight, Vegeta's confession. Episode ended with the release and formation of Majin Buu.

Music was great. Sumitomo's serious music compositions and orchestrations are fantastic. The apocalyptic track played again, it's one of my favourites from Kai Buu's new music.

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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by RazorX » Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:39 pm

Hujio wrote:I appreciate the help, but normally a staff member will make the weekly Kai thread, as we sticky and lock it until the appropriate time. In fact, I had created a thread without even noticing you had already done so.
No problem. I have been absent from the forum for a long time, so if there was a new rule where its only the admins who make the episode topic threads, I didnt know, as I used to make them for the first phase of Kai. Sent you a PM with a question.

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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by Ajay » Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:41 pm

Well, I'd be willing to put money on that being a totally unedited episode from the International version of the show. Credit where credit is due, that was actually pretty good.

Beginning with some filler of Trunks and Goten flying towards Boo's location, there was a strange choice of music during a gag moment with the two of them peeing and then being attacked by a dinosaur. It was a really serious track for what is a very silly moment. Nothing horrendous but worth noting all the same.

I actually have a lot of positives for this week's episode. The thing that stood out immediately was the shed of load of silence! There was so much breathing room to take in each scene! I guess I felt something akin to how many Faulconer fans feel switching from their wall to wall placement over to Kikuchi. It was very strange but I 100% totally welcome it. It definitely helped smooth over the episode a lot.

The stand out moment has to be Vegeta's monolgue interpersed with the various flashbacks. They used the (what I've now named) 'tournament hype' music but I think it kinda worked. I'm a bit undecided on that specifically but I feel like it blended nicely into the next track. A new one! Yup, we got a nice new track and damn, it was good. It was during a moment of great introspection for Vegeta and the track really nailed the tone. It was emotional and, most importantly, it made sense.

Gohan's Kamehamehas were backed with perfectly appropriate music too. The entire build up to Boo's awakening was pretty solid. I don't really have any complaints there.

My main issue is Boo's actual reveal. The original uses very mysterious music leading into very serious stuff as Boo is clouded. It really created a great sense of wonder as to what exactly this fearsome villain was going be. Heck, even after he appeared, everything was incredibly serious until he spoke. With Kai, they opted to use a track that, while is certainly appropriate for the character, kinda spoils the moment and clashes with everyone's horrified/shocked reactions as he appears.

It certainly wasn't horrible but it could have potentially been done a bit better, I think.

Overall, I'm pretty pleased with this week. The filler sections weren't annoying, the music placement was fine and of course, the voice acting is tremendous as always.

I think if this is an indication of the overall quality of the International version then at least it's not going to be totally horrible. Although if I do hear that damn disco music in the same place as last week, I'm gonna be pretty fucking mad.
Last edited by Ajay on Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by DBZ_Lee » Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:52 pm

A great episode this week. Agree with Ajay about the music in the Trunks & Goten scene being somewhat too serious, this isn't the 1st time it has happened, I noticed something similar in the International Version with Trunks speaking to his 1st opponent backstage at the Budokai.
Speaking of the International Version, I'm confident that this is one of the episodes that have remained uncut from the original production, they only covered 18 pages of manga, and that is quite similar to the pacing of "The Final Chapters".

Overall, I'm pleased with this episode, they covered just the right amount to make it epic, and focus on Buu's revival. I've noticed the past couple of weeks they've trimmed a few seconds off of the NEP in order to advertise DBH UM2, I guess it's all down to generating ¥.

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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by Ajay » Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:00 pm

DBZ_Lee wrote: Speaking of the International Version, I'm confident that this is one of the episodes that have remained uncut from the original production, they only covered 18 pages of manga, and that is quite similar to the pacing of "The Final Chapters".
Yeah, I felt the same. I managed to miss my first paragraph when copying my post across from notepad which said the same thing. Woops! Fixed now. My references to the international version now make sense. :lol:
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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by TheRed259 » Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:45 am

Seriously, they can't continue like this. They need more battle themes. They have stuck in only 4 BGMS and that's all...?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5h6J70H0Hs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZpQrYxNQX0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgA-wigyF4Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW-7dlI8NGM

And I can only take the 1st one as a battle theme. The 2nd and the 4th are suitable for scenes with less pace (Majin Vegeta's transformation, Goku's Super Saiyan 3 transformation etc). The 3rd one is ''pseudo-serious'' and not meant to be used in critical moments of a battle.

They do need more fighting soundtracks like these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duw0Wx6KvSs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNDxlp6Z06c

I hope that they do have some more because 69 episodes with even less soundtracks than the repetitive Kikuchi Kai Version (98 episodes & almost 65 tracks) will be really boring.

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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by Ajay » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:15 am

We're only 18 episodes in and we've been getting new tracks trickling through fairly consistently throughout them. It's a weekly show - there's not going to be all these new tracks until you move into a different section of the arc. Since we've just moved into Majin Boo proper, you're probably going to find more and more new tracks. Heck, I think we had at least two this episode!

Look back at Yamamoto and Kikuchi - neither of them were changing that much within 18 episodes. It's just the nature of longrunning weekly anime like this.
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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by worldmonsters » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:49 pm

I don't mean to spoil the mood, but I thought it was really pretty boring :o This whole episode could've been half its length. And it should've been. There would still be enough build-up and they could really just throw away all the filler stuff. There could still be buildup, but ugh I dunno I was so bored with this episode. I mean it starts with Majin Buu having reached full power and the episode ENDS with the reveal of Buu? :o What is this? Original Dragon Ball Z? I mean, I don't mind original Dragon Ball Z, but this is Kai and I'd actually have liked if this was more fast paced.

Sorry :p I'll respect you guys' opinion by saying that that is completely how I felt unbiased while watching it. So to each their own. Music placement was fine, with slight exceptions of the Dino scene and indeed the Buu reveal. And of course it was well acted. But it was so slowwww... Apparently it's REALLY hard to hit that exact right speed. Probably especially because there are two versions. The first version they created being about 60-70 episodes long (I forgot the exact number count :p) and then they wanted another one but make it 50 episodes long. Probably what they did was transfer quite a few episodes from the first version to the second version to keep costs low. So you end up with terribly mismatching episode speeds and it shows. There were a few episodes that hit that just right mark of being fast enough and still being moody (the Yakon, Pui Pui episode springs to mind) and the rest is either too fast (all the Saiyaman stuff) or too slow like some of the last episodes we've been seeing and this one included :o

Being an editor myself I really really want to try and see what I could've made of it, but that's a project that could take me months. However I do believe I could've done a better job :o I'm usually kind of reserved on my own skills, but I really think I could've :o

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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by ShinGaijin » Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:05 pm

Everything went fine this week IMO...Except for one thing.Of course, I'm not an japanese-native speaker, so I can't really judge of the actors delivery...but Mitsumiya's performance when Kaio Shin/Supreme Kai mocks Babidi seemed very weak to me.Gosh, this is the first time I find a flaw in the japanese acting. :wtf:

And for the music...I know we've already heard this one before, but I liked the BGM that is playing during this scene :
It somewhat reminded me of Joe Hisaishi's compositions.Combined with the Horikawa's performance, it was really wonderful...I hope the English dub will be as enjoyable, and (why not) 0% green tint guaranteed ! :thumbup:

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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by Ajay » Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:28 pm

A lot of people have mentioned Mitsuya's (I assume that's who you mean) performance as Kaioshin this time around. It's definitely been pretty lackluster in comparison to his original performance and even Battle of Gods. For me, sometimes it's his performance and other times his voice just sounds really off and alien to the character I'm seeing on screen.
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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by ShinGaijin » Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:39 pm

Mitsuya, yes (Mitsumiya...xD what a mistake, sorry).About his performance, it's strange when you think about it...he has seemed so involved in the Buu Saga.

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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by Valerius Dover » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:54 pm

You can't miss it, it's GREEEEEEEEN! :mrgreen:

Seriously, I had no idea just how GREEN this was. Now, I fully understand what you guys are talking about.
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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by Naruto6583 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:37 pm

Saw the episode the placement wasn't too bad way better then episode 115
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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by DarkPrince_92 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:49 pm

The second half of this episode looked less green than the first. But green is green lol. Also, they need more OST, I like the tracks they do have, but this is what bugs me the most about DBZ, the repetitive soundtracks (not including the Funimation Z dub).
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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by Ajay » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:21 pm

Speaking of the green tint - I put together a side by side video just to demonstrate what a difference just altering the colours can make to improving this remaster.

I used what cels I could find as a basic reference. I'm glad I did since the skin tones I was imagining in my head were far more yellow than the reddish hues from the cels.

Something that's dramatically different between Kai 1.0 and the current iteration's remaster is definitely the contrast. Skin tone's highlights this time around seem slightly overblown compared to the smoother cel-like appearance of QTEC's efforts. Given the black crush that's been evident in certain scenes, this isn't really that much of a surprise. You can certainly try and rectify it with some luma alterations but it'd have be done on a scene by scene basis so as not to compromise shadows in other scenes.

If the Blu-rays do feature this tint, it really shouldn't be hard to fix based on one preset. Puto mentioned the tint was consistent and easy to remove via one script and that's certainly true. The unfortunate truth is that, even with that tint gone, the colours aren't quite 100% perfect. It's only minor adjustments here and there though so anyone with a bit of time should have no issues.
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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by mcdonough88 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:50 am

Something tells me we shall hear the 'Vejiita confession' theme when Goku kills Buu

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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by Naruto6583 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:58 pm

worldmonsters wrote:I don't mean to spoil the mood, but I thought it was really pretty boring :o This whole episode could've been half its length. And it should've been. There would still be enough build-up and they could really just throw away all the filler stuff. There could still be buildup, but ugh I dunno I was so bored with this episode. I mean it starts with Majin Buu having reached full power and the episode ENDS with the reveal of Buu? :o What is this? Original Dragon Ball Z? I mean, I don't mind original Dragon Ball Z, but this is Kai and I'd actually have liked if this was more fast paced.

Sorry :p I'll respect you guys' opinion by saying that that is completely how I felt unbiased while watching it. So to each their own. Music placement was fine, with slight exceptions of the Dino scene and indeed the Buu reveal. And of course it was well acted. But it was so slowwww... Apparently it's REALLY hard to hit that exact right speed. Probably especially because there are two versions. The first version they created being about 60-70 episodes long (I forgot the exact number count :p) and then they wanted another one but make it 50 episodes long. Probably what they did was transfer quite a few episodes from the first version to the second version to keep costs low. So you end up with terribly mismatching episode speeds and it shows. There were a few episodes that hit that just right mark of being fast enough and still being moody (the Yakon, Pui Pui episode springs to mind) and the rest is either too fast (all the Saiyaman stuff) or too slow like some of the last episodes we've been seeing and this one included :o

Being an editor myself I really really want to try and see what I could've made of it, but that's a project that could take me months. However I do believe I could've done a better job :o I'm usually kind of reserved on my own skills, but I really think I could've :o
That's the problem they're working with slower paced animation if they had redone the show from scratch then yeah it could be faster paced. That filler needs to be kept so it won't look to rushed liked the great saiyaman episodes where the edits were really choppy and the music was almost wall to wall
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Re: Kai Episode 116 (10 August 2014)

Post by Vijay » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:00 pm

I've always read comments from various point of views, but Kai has lost every "pride" DBZ had as Shounen King, Gateway anime.

Misplaced musical score. Original Z's score enhances Seiyuu's performances.

No offence to Kai fans, but weak acting. Was hyped As F for Bin Shimada's Bobidi. It feels incredibly generic. Some random Wizard (been there, done that feel) unlike Yoji's infinetly obsessed, diabolic Magician.

Kaioshin's threat felt incredibly weak. Both Nozawa & Ryo really give performances some times which makes them look like a shell of their former selves. More like making impression than actually voicing them. Incredibly inconsistent. Which is fatal when compared to their original work which was full of soul & enthusiasm.

Kai's promoted as filler-free. Episode starts with Buu's Initial phase of hatching. Ends with Buu hactched.

The target audience also seem crystal clear. Always felt DB as universal show & can be enjoyed by anyone frm 6~60.

Kai simply narrowed their range which was evident right frm Generic musical score to downright embarassing eye-catches (Goku & Vegeta wearing Potara BAM! Goku & Co pop).

Noticed how Funi's Version of DBZ teared apart till date for their atrocious musical score (no offence to Bruce fan) & weak performance, further enhances by terrible lines. (Mondo Cool etc) by haters while some still adore it for nostalgia sake.

Buu Arc Kai is a lesson to those belonging to the former is that What Goes, comes around. Sorry for my bad English if there was any...

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