How strong would a Majin Piccolo be?

[Origibros]

He was essentially the compilation of evil energy, so naturally a Majin Piccolo would be quite strong, I have him a fair bit below Good buu.

[Doctor.]

I think this could have been debated in the VS thread.

Regardless, I'll reply. It depends on the context an hypothetical Majin Piccolo would be. Knowing Toriyama, if Majin Piccolo existed, he would fight against Gohan most likely. So, SSJ2 Gohan level.

[RandomGuy96]

Going by the boost that Babidi's charm gave to Spopovich and Vegeta, probably still far weaker than any of the current adult Super Saiyans. He might get strong enough to take on the kids one on one, though.

[Kaboom]

It's nigh impossible to tell for sure, because Bobbidi's technique depends on dormant power, and we don't really know what Piccolo has going for him in that regard.

[Vijay]

Spopovitch was weakling when he was defeated by Mr.Satan, yet overpowered Videl (with additional bukujutsu), which is remarkable for any non-Zetto senshi human capability.

Piccolo in Cell Saga (post ROSAT) would be around Semi-Perfect Cell. While inferior to Perfect Cell, he did better against Cell Jr's.

While I'll say there's no way Majin Piccolo gonna rival Super Saiyan 2, there's possibility that Toriyama would've pitched him against Gohan in a epic Sensei/Student clash.

It may not have not as glorious as SS2Goku/Majin Vegeta, but would've provided Piccolo with some relevance instead of becoming Baby-sitter in later half of Buu Arc.

[Pantalones]

Heck, we don't even have a clear estimate of how strong Piccolo is in the Buu saga, beyond "definitely a lot weaker than the SSj2s and fusions and Buus." You're trying to guess an unknown dormant power on top of an already-unknown level (the last clear comparison of power we got was when he was vaguely compared to Cell Games-era Vegeta and Trunks, due to being strong enough to hold on for a while against a Cell Jr. just like those two, rather than getting stomped into the ground... and then he presumably trained almost constantly for the next 7 years because what else does Piccolo ever do? he doesn't even need to stop for lunch!)

So... I imagine it'd be pretty hard to make an accurate guess here.

I kinda want to say that he's at least maintained the power relation between himself and Vegeta from the last time we saw them fighting together (so however much of a boost Vegeta got during his 7 years of training, Piccolo got just as big of a boost so they're still just as far apart as they were at the Cell Games... and they possibly weren't that far apart then), and when becoming "Majin Piccolo" he'd probably get a significantly bigger boost than Vegeta did because Vegeta had all those near-death boosts drawing out dormant power for him earlier in life while Namekians don't get those (so he should have more untapped dormant power hanging around.)
But I can't see him surpassing the SSj2s, or especially not getting into the Buu range of power levels, just from Babidi's spell--I never got the feeling that Babidi's power-up is such a drastic boost that it would make you more than twice as strong as before, unless you were just so weak before (like around where Yamu and Spopovich used to be at, "strong but ordinary human" level basically) that almost none of your dormant power was already in use. Maybe SSj2 Gohan-ish level would be about right, he'd move into "SSj2 level" range but would still only at the weakest end of that range.

I could see Piccolo Daimao possibly getting a way bigger boost than normal by virtue of the "he is literally pure evil" thing (that, and his lack of training for hundreds of years while sealed = lots of dormant power that he wouldn't have been able to get out on his own), but not Piccolo Jr.... at least not this late in the series.

[Saiga]

Going by the boost that Babidi's charm gave to Spopovich and Vegeta, probably still far weaker than any of the current adult Super Saiyans. He might get strong enough to take on the kids one on one, though.

Yeah, I'd say this would be the case. I'd like to think he'd be able to give Kaioshin a good fight, as that'd be a good way to actually handle it happening in story as well since he might have some resentment of being outclassed earlier. But that's probably too big a power up to expect.

[TobyS]

I feel people are under-rating Piccolo almost as bad as they do the humans here.

People saying Piccolo is about semi-cell are crazy imo, while some stuff is subjective, this one seems easily disprovable using context from the Manga.

When Piccolo steps out of the chamber, Trunks is shocked when Goku tells Piccolo that his increase doesn't put him on the level of (suppressed) Perfect Cell. This implies Piccolo has at least got stronger then Trunks/Vegeta after their first RoSaT visit, if not as strong as their second visit as their respective Cell Jr. Performance shows.

The kids are trash, they only need to be fusion fodder, they only need to be strong enough for 18 to be surprised a random non z-senshi human is that strong, and a threat to the audience (with kid Trunks blast in the sea being an 'end of 'DB' level feat) not that they are stronger then her or anyone else.

I think Piccolo was stronger then the kids both base, super and the same post RoSaT.
I think he is stronger then all the base adults given that he was miles above in the cell saga, super saiyan is a fixed multiplier, and the new super-saiyan 2's aren't that different to Cell Games Gohan. (simple maths imo)

Majin Piccolo would be stronger then all super saiyan 1's (because it wouldn't take much to be true)
The question is whether this would put him above Kaioshin (probably) Dabura/SPC (maybe) and the adult SSJ2's (maybe not...)

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

Vegeta did not even gain a 2x increase. Maybe 1.5x at best. And Goku was still stronger than Majin Vegeta even after his boost.

Majin Piccolo ... That would only take him close to SSJ1 Gohan, and forget SSJ1 Goku or Vegeta. He'll smash the kids though.

[Tyro]

And Goku was still stronger than Majin Vegeta even after his boost.

Why do you say that? They were stated to be equal, not counting SS3.

[dbgtFO]

And Goku was still stronger than Majin Vegeta even after his boost.

Why do you say that? They were stated to be equal, not counting SS3.

Seems like he's factoring SS3 into the equation, which is the only thing that makes sense.

I reckon Piccolo would max out at below SS1 level. If you view Babidi's spell as drawing out the power obtained from one's evil Heart, then I don't think there'd be much to Draw out like with Vegeta, who most likely didn't get even twice as strong.

[RandomGuy96]

When Piccolo steps out of the chamber, Trunks is shocked when Goku tells Piccolo that his increase doesn't put him on the level of (suppressed) Perfect Cell. This implies Piccolo has at least got stronger then Trunks/Vegeta after their first RoSaT visit, if not as strong as their second visit as their respective Cell Jr. Performance shows.

No, he's shocked that Piccolo is said to be completely useless against Cell in every way. Not that he can't beat him alone. As the series repeatedly shows us, you don't actually need to be as strong as someone or even anywhere near as strong to be able to help in a team-up against them.

Chapter: 392 (DBZ 198), P13.1-5
Goku: “Hey… Piccolo! Did you go into the Room of Spirit and Time?”
Piccolo: “Indeed.”
Goku: “I can tell! You’ve risen to an entirely different level.”
Piccolo: “…Why don’t you just be frank with me? I’ve grown stronger, but even so, it won’t do any good against Cell…”
Goku: “…Yeah, it won’t do any good.”

All their respective Cell Jr performance shows is Vegeta and Trunks > Piccolo. The Cell Jrs are stated to be equal to Trunks and Vegeta in Daizenshuu 7. Cell mentions that Trunks and Vegeta are fighting evenly with the Cell Jrs, but doesn't mention anyone else. Vegeta is also the only person we see land a punch.

The kids are trash, they only need to be fusion fodder, they only need to be strong enough for 18 to be surprised a random non z-senshi human is that strong, and a threat to the audience (with kid Trunks blast in the sea being an 'end of 'DB' level feat) not that they are stronger then her or anyone else.

The kids were strong enough to spar on relatively even terms with the adults. Gohan had a lot of trouble blocking and dodging Goten, and admitted that Goten would surpass him if he didn't soon start training again, and Trunks was strong enough that Vegeta got so worried by his assault that he had to punch Trunks reactively to get him to stop. Trunks took that punch without any real damage. These feats are not possible if the kids are anywhere near as weak as, say, Piccolo. As shown when 90kGoku pwned Jeice and Burter, at about 36-40k, if the kids were closer to a third of the adult Super Saiyans' strength, Gohan and Vegeta would've been able to dodge effortlessly while standing still and not even trying. Vegeta's punch also would have probably killed Trunks.

On 18 specifically: 18 panicked a lot and dodged the blast, commenting that it was absurdly powerful:

Chapter: 453 (DBZ 259), P12.4, P13.1
Context: after Trunks’ ki blast explodes
No.18: “Yo-you’ve got to be kidding…That energy bullet had absolutely incredible speed and destructive power…Co-could it be that those squirts have outrageous power?…This is dangerous! I’ve got to settle this fight soon!”

And she already knew who Mighty Mask was before he fired a single ki attack:

Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P12.2
Context: talking about the two disguised as Mighty Mask
No.18: “…That weird long-torso freak isn’t anyone ordinary…His small arms had surprisingly powerful punches.”

Chapter: 453 (DBZ 259), P10.1-2
Context: as Trunks prepares to fire a ki blast at No.18
No.18: “…I see…Super Saiyan, huh?...I finally know your identity, boys…”

If it was truly a concern about collateral damage that she was worried about, she would've knocked it away, or tanked it, rather than running for her life. Yet she didn't. In fact, she immediately decided that she couldn't win the fight and instead opted to get them disqualified, despite attacking arrogant and superior before. And remember, Goten told Trunks repeatedly to hold back power so as not to kill her. Yet this blast he shot was apparently still very dangerous to 18, given her comments, behavior, and the fact that she was sweating with a scared look on her face.

Chapter: 453 (DBZ 259), P8.4, P9.1-7
*they become Super Saiyans*
No.18: “!!”
Trunks: “Either way, we’re at a disadvantage in this getup, so we’ve got no choice but to settle this with a kiai cannon!”
Goten: “Eh! But will she be alright?...”
Trunks: “Don’t worry, she won’t die if we do it appropriately. She’s No.18…”

Context: as Trunks prepares to fire a ki blast at No.18
Goten: “Don’t do it at full force!”
Trunks: “I know, I know!”

I think Piccolo was stronger then the kids both base, super and the same post RoSaT.
I think he is stronger then all the base adults given that he was miles above in the cell saga, super saiyan is a fixed multiplier, and the new super-saiyan 2's aren't that different to Cell Games Gohan. (simple maths imo)

Daizenshuu 7 also states Goten is equal to Gohan, and Piccolo was unable to physically stop the kids from running off despite yelling that they'll get themselves killed. So if he is stronger than the kids, then he also happens to be a huge asshole. He also states that they, not him, are the only hope of stopping Buu (though a slim hope) once he thinks all the adults are dead, and is scared/awed by their power when they display it in full (Goku, who is stronger, isn't). Given how much weaker Piccolo is stated to be than Kaioshin, who is inferior to the adult Super Saiyans, I highly doubt Piccolo could give them any trouble the way Goten and Trunks did.

Majin Piccolo would be stronger then all super saiyan 1's (because it wouldn't take much to be true)

His boost would inexplicably have to be much larger than Vegeta's. If anything, it should be smaller, as Piccolo was implied to be maxed out as far as dormant power goes back in the Cell arc.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

When Piccolo steps out of the chamber, Trunks is shocked when Goku tells Piccolo that his increase doesn't put him on the level of (suppressed) Perfect Cell. This implies Piccolo has at least got stronger then Trunks/Vegeta after their first RoSaT visit, if not as strong as their second visit as their respective Cell Jr. Performance shows.

No, he's shocked that Piccolo is said to be completely useless against Cell in every way. Not that he can't beat him alone. As the series repeatedly shows us, you don't actually need to be as strong as someone or even anywhere near as strong to be able to help in a team-up against them.

Chapter: 392 (DBZ 198), P13.1-5
Goku: “Hey… Piccolo! Did you go into the Room of Spirit and Time?”
Piccolo: “Indeed.”
Goku: “I can tell! You’ve risen to an entirely different level.”
Piccolo: “…Why don’t you just be frank with me? I’ve grown stronger, but even so, it won’t do any good against Cell…”
Goku: “…Yeah, it won’t do any good.”

All their respective Cell Jr performance shows is Vegeta and Trunks > Piccolo. The Cell Jrs are stated to be equal to Trunks and Vegeta in Daizenshuu 7. Cell mentions that Trunks and Vegeta are fighting evenly with the Cell Jrs, but doesn't mention anyone else. Vegeta is also the only person we see land a punch.

The kids are trash, they only need to be fusion fodder, they only need to be strong enough for 18 to be surprised a random non z-senshi human is that strong, and a threat to the audience (with kid Trunks blast in the sea being an 'end of 'DB' level feat) not that they are stronger then her or anyone else.

The kids were strong enough to spar on relatively even terms with the adults. Gohan had a lot of trouble blocking and dodging Goten, and admitted that Goten would surpass him if he didn't soon start training again, and Trunks was strong enough that Vegeta got so worried by his assault that he had to punch Trunks reactively to get him to stop. Trunks took that punch without any real damage. These feats are not possible if the kids are anywhere near as weak as, say, Piccolo. As shown when 90kGoku pwned Jeice and Burter, at about 36-40k, if the kids were closer to a third of the adult Super Saiyans' strength, Gohan and Vegeta would've been able to dodge effortlessly while standing still and not even trying. Vegeta's punch also would have probably killed Trunks.

On 18 specifically: 18 panicked a lot and dodged the blast, commenting that it was absurdly powerful:

Chapter: 453 (DBZ 259), P12.4, P13.1
Context: after Trunks’ ki blast explodes
No.18: “Yo-you’ve got to be kidding…That energy bullet had absolutely incredible speed and destructive power…Co-could it be that those squirts have outrageous power?…This is dangerous! I’ve got to settle this fight soon!”

And she already knew who Mighty Mask was before he fired a single ki attack:

Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P12.2
Context: talking about the two disguised as Mighty Mask
No.18: “…That weird long-torso freak isn’t anyone ordinary…His small arms had surprisingly powerful punches.”

Chapter: 453 (DBZ 259), P10.1-2
Context: as Trunks prepares to fire a ki blast at No.18
No.18: “…I see…Super Saiyan, huh?...I finally know your identity, boys…”

If it was truly a concern about collateral damage that she was worried about, she would've knocked it away, or tanked it, rather than running for her life. Yet she didn't. In fact, she immediately decided that she couldn't win the fight and instead opted to get them disqualified, despite attacking arrogant and superior before. And remember, Goten told Trunks repeatedly to hold back power so as not to kill her. Yet this blast he shot was apparently still very dangerous to 18, given her comments, behavior, and the fact that she was sweating with a scared look on her face.

Chapter: 453 (DBZ 259), P8.4, P9.1-7
*they become Super Saiyans*
No.18: “!!”
Trunks: “Either way, we’re at a disadvantage in this getup, so we’ve got no choice but to settle this with a kiai cannon!”
Goten: “Eh! But will she be alright?...”
Trunks: “Don’t worry, she won’t die if we do it appropriately. She’s No.18…”

Context: as Trunks prepares to fire a ki blast at No.18
Goten: “Don’t do it at full force!”
Trunks: “I know, I know!”

I think Piccolo was stronger then the kids both base, super and the same post RoSaT.
I think he is stronger then all the base adults given that he was miles above in the cell saga, super saiyan is a fixed multiplier, and the new super-saiyan 2's aren't that different to Cell Games Gohan. (simple maths imo)

Daizenshuu 7 also states Goten is equal to Gohan, and Piccolo was unable to physically stop the kids from running off despite yelling that they'll get themselves killed. So if he is stronger than the kids, then he also happens to be a huge asshole. He also states that they, not him, are the only hope of stopping Buu (though a slim hope) once he thinks all the adults are dead, and is scared/awed by their power when they display it in full (Goku, who is stronger, isn't). Given how much weaker Piccolo is stated to be than Kaioshin, who is inferior to the adult Super Saiyans, I highly doubt Piccolo could give them any trouble the way Goten and Trunks did.

Majin Piccolo would be stronger then all super saiyan 1's (because it wouldn't take much to be true)

His boost would inexplicably have to be much larger than Vegeta's. If anything, it should be smaller, as Piccolo was implied to be maxed out as far as dormant power goes back in the Cell arc.

I have to ask how Goten and Trunks could possibly be this strong? Are we suggesting here that their bases are in the tens of millions? I was figuring maybe 5,000,000 for Goten and perhaps over 6,000,000 for Trunks. (these numbers I thought were actually generous on my behalf)

They may have never shown the kids actually "train" - who we do know they haven't been Super Saiyan all too long, maybe 1 year? Slightly longer? And very young..
Some have said it was their half breed nature that makes them so strong, but how come it took Gohan so many years longer to reach this level of power? He's a half breed too.

[RandomGuy96]

I have to ask how Goten and Trunks could possibly be this strong? Are we suggesting here that their bases are in the tens of millions? I was figuring maybe 5,000,000 for Goten and perhaps over 6,000,000 for Trunks. (these numbers I thought were actually generous on my behalf)

Tens of millions, yeah (assuming you believe base saiyans < Freeza). They should be at least half as strong as Vegeta/Gohan.

They may have never shown the kids actually "train" - who we do know they haven't been Super Saiyan all too long, maybe 1 year? Slightly longer? And very young..
Some have said it was their half breed nature that makes them so strong, but how come it took Gohan so many years longer to reach this level of power? He's a half breed too.

I believe the explanation given, through a combination of the manga, interviews, and guidebooks, is:

1. They're a new breed of hybrids (as indicated by their lack of tails), so they can obtain the SS transformation REALLY early. This was stated in, I believe, one of the Daizenshuu guidebooks, and brought up by Bulma in the series when she wondered why Trunks didn't have a tail. Also, unlike Gohan, these two don't get rage boosts, further indicating they're a different type of hybrid.
2. This new breed of hybrids is also born stronger. It might have something to do with Goku and Vegeta being really strong when they were conceived, or not having tails themselves.
3. The kids are stated in the manga to constantly "play fight" all the time. Sparring is shown to be one of the most effective forms of training in the series (see the humans in between Raditz and Vegeta, and Goku and Gohan in the ROSAT).
4. The kids stay in Super Saiyan a lot, causing them to become mastered Super Saiyans. This is implied by their ability to suppress their battle power and their facial features, which can often be relaxed. Both of these are MSS-exclusive traits.
5. Mastered Super Saiyans + sparring + one year = huge gains, as shown by Goku and Gohan's ROSAT training. So then, Mastered Super Saiyans + sparring + more than one year = even bigger gains.

EDIT: Found a Daizenshuu 4 quote confirming some of this:

The tailless second generation are super ultra child prodigies. Saiyan genes have an extraordinarily good compatibility with Earthling blood. Because of this, when the two races are mixed together children with formidable power are born. Particularly, those Halflings born without tails hide an exceptional battle power. There are many things that they naturally master from a young age, such as the ordinarily arduous transformation into a Super Saiyan. In spite of having such an outstanding battle sense, they do not have a fondness for battle like a pure Saiyan. Instead, it seems that the violent temperament of the Saiyan has been relaxed through their Earthling blood.

[FoolsGil]

After fusing with Nail, it took Piccolo three years to overpass Freeza in power.

After fusing with Kami, Piccolo could take down a basic SSJ, and based on his growth alone, definitely stronger than an Ascended Saiyan after 7 years.

Majin Piccolo = SSJ2: it's the next logical step.