Anime Recession?

[Attitudefan]

What year is that from? You've got b-roll of a SDTV (or an early HDTV) and references to cell animation.

Yeah, I remember this news piece. It made the rounds about five years ago. Here's the original article on CNN from July 2009.

So it was this one! And my five year guess was accurate. I still think it applies today.

Depends on who's releasing the products. a lot of Funimation's titles are quite affordable on Amazon. For a little under 150 bucks I got all of Spice and Wolf, Soul Eater, Sengoku Basara, Samurai Champloo, and the first half of FMA Brotherhood all on bluray.

If you want expensive, look no further than Aniplex.

Kill la Kill bluray 1. 4 episodes = 60 bucks.

Sword Art Online bluray 1. 7 episodes = 90 bucks

Gurren Lagann complete series + movies bluray set = 1,300 bucks

Oh yeah, I know all about this. My anime collection has grown, but anipelex eludes me. I wish I could afford all of Madoka, but each set is like 60 dollars for 4 episodes. I only own Movie 3 - Rebellion.

Funimation has sweet deals, but there lies a problem too: they are monopolizing Anime abroad, and that hurts smaller companies who pick up other titles. It is not a really good situation either. Thinking about the anime industry bums me out, a lot. I always tell my friends to support the industry if you still want to have anime in the future, but they cannot afford it or don't bother to go the legal route. One of my friends wanted to purchase Gurren Lagann since it is his favourite anime. That price however is keeping him away from doing just that.

What they don't tell you is that this causes a lot of sales from people that end up loving the series that otherwise wouldn't happen (inside japan and outside japan). In fact, I know a lot of guys who would never have bought anything manga/anime related if they hadn't seen it pirated first and become fans of it.

This is true too. When I was at Anime Revolution, it was just such an awesome sight to see people in cosplays. Lots of merchandise are purchased by cosplayers, which in turn supports the anime they love. It was great to be in that environment.

Hey, I was introduced to Steins; Gate that way, for example, and supported the show as soon as I could! Turns out that the series made such success that now FUNi is reformatting it onto a "Classics" label even though it is only 2 years old; that label allows for a cheaper price for consumers to purchase and own the show while still showing their support for the industry!

Actually, since the CNN article, I think anime has grown a lot, especially here in Canada. It is getting a more mainstream acceptance. Look at how many more anime films are coming over for theatre viewing in Canada and the USA. Dragon Ball is a success story in this regard.

EDIT: after reading YBM's post, it makes sense that anime is no longer in the recession it had in 2009. economies overall got better, but so has the market for anime. For example, here in Vancouver, there was only really 1 place in 2009 to get anime called Sakura Media. Amazon.ca didn't offer as much back then or nothing at all. Anime Conventions didn't exist here until 2012. Now, stores like HMV, Future Shop, and Best Buy have grew their anime sections exponentially. Anime today has also a more mainstream acceptance than it once did (especially compared to 2009).

In 2009, there were no legal streaming sites, unlike today, where today Crunchy Roll and the Anime Network are booming businesses. FUNimation is also streaming anime on their site for a paid membership and free on Youtube! In 2009, no such thing existed except for illegal streams (as far as I'm aware of. If legal stream sites existed pre-2010, they were not the booming industries of today). So it is more likely that people will watch and pay for legal streams than never doing that at all. The odds today are in Anime's favour. One can even watch Crunchy Roll on their mobile device. No such thing existed like that in 2009.

So, 2009 was a pivitol year, just coming out of a global recession and internet and hardware was getting better (and cheaper in terms of quality and affordability) by the minute where streams were growing to be a cheap, viable alternative to torrenting or purchasing hard copies. Today, storage devices and hardware are so capable that streaming is a good alternative for businesses to make money off of.

[Kid Buu]

Well, at least those Aniplex titles are in-print. I'm dying for a re-release of Urusei Yatsura, Maison Ikkoku, and Revolutionary Girl Utena.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

JulieYBM's post makes sense. But still, being an in-between animator is pretty rough. Having making a bit over $2 per drawing is pretty low. It barely covers living expenses. I guess it's helped that there's opportunities for money if you make enough determination and skills, and once they recognize your hard work and determination, they will promote you to be a key animator. For Shida to have an experience of over 25 years as a key animator, I can see that he has come a long way from the original run of Dragon Ball series from '86 to' 97. His cuts on Ultimate Blast and Kami to Kami are gorgeous and smooth.

I hope Shida will stick around a bit longer, and if opportunity presents to animate longer cuts for Dragon Ball Z, I'd like for him to grab it. Or maybe he will get an opportunity to be the character designer/animation supervisor so they would match his model. I prefer him and Nakatsuru over Yamamuro.

By the way, why is there no mention of Natoshi Shida on Animation Style guide on Kanzenshuu?

[JulieYBM]

Because in-betweeners are young they typically still live at home with their parents. It is said those parents bankroll the industry. Ide Takeo said he used to share an apartment when he was a rookie.

If you work hard--or something is being made in a rush--you can move up to the position of key animator and animation supervisor. Most animators dislike the role of animation supervisor, since it means being stuck with correcting other animators' poor work at a fixed rate on a non-existent schedule, but those that take it seriously tend to be ambitious. Yamashita Hiroyuki of Naruto Shippuuden fame eventually took on the role of animation supervisor for episodes. He took the role seriously because he wanted to influence the look of the episode. Now he's directed, storyboarded, and performed the role of animation supervisor for three episodes, undoubtedly giving each of those three episodes his look and vision. That is the sort of ambition that is sought after by directors.

[Hujio]

By the way, why is there no mention of Natoshi Shida on Animation Style guide on Kanzenshuu?

Well, because he has only ever been a key animator for Dragon Ball and the guide covers animation supervisors. Maybe someday we'll expand it a bit. He is mentioned within the guide, but doesn't necessarily have his own page.

[coola]

I've seen this or at least a similar documentary around 5 years ago. However, I doubt much has changed, and this is why I don't advocate for piracy. It really hurts business and the life for those people in it.

Moral of the story, don't be an asshole and pirate shows. If you like an anime or manga, purchase it or watch it on TV or a legal stream like CrunchyRoll or the Anime Network.

My personal problem is, that if i want to use CrunchyRoll, or other streaming site, i get "This content is not available in your country/region" of course i try to support shows, by buying legal DVD/Blu-Ray, but, i sometimes hate, that just because I'm European, I'm getting screwed, by either shopping problems, or region locks. How can i support company, if that company doesn't let me?

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Because in-betweeners are young they typically still live at home with their parents. It is said those parents bankroll the industry.

There is something deeply ironic about this sentiment, economically necessary as it may be, but I cannot quite place it.

[JulieYBM]

Because in-betweeners are young they typically still live at home with their parents. It is said those parents bankroll the industry.

There is something deeply ironic about this sentiment, economically necessary as it may be, but I cannot quite place it.

Well, like I said earlier, just because you have a job it doesn't mean you deserve a bigger piece of a tiny, tiny pie.

[Attitudefan]

I've seen this or at least a similar documentary around 5 years ago. However, I doubt much has changed, and this is why I don't advocate for piracy. It really hurts business and the life for those people in it.

Moral of the story, don't be an asshole and pirate shows. If you like an anime or manga, purchase it or watch it on TV or a legal stream like CrunchyRoll or the Anime Network.

My personal problem is, that if i want to use CrunchyRoll, or other streaming site, i get "This content is not available in your country/region" of course i try to support shows, by buying legal DVD/Blu-Ray, but, i sometimes hate, that just because I'm European, I'm getting screwed, by either shopping problems, or region locks. How can i support company, if that company doesn't let me?

I don't live in Europe so I didn't know.

But it's like trying to buy an Elfen Lied manga or Brynhildr into the Darkness manga; it's absolutely impossible to get it in English since they were never authored here in North America or Britain. However, Germans can purchase it. The only option is fan scans and translations.

[KentalSSJ6]

But it's like trying to buy an Elfen Lied manga or Brynhildr into the Darkness manga; it's absolutely impossible to get it in English since they were never authored here in North America or Britain. However, Germans can purchase it. The only option is fan scans and translations.

I'm in the same boat with Nana to Kaoru. All results on Amazon and Ebay show only Japanese and German versions and I'm dying for it to get a English release (though I have no idea which publisher would have the balls to release it. Maybe Dark Horse.)

[FortuneSSJ]

I like these kind of videos. Thanks for sharing.
Sometimes people bitch about every little thing. Everyone should watch this.

Some months ago there was guy in A1 Pictures that commited suicide because of this. It's not unusual.
A lot of anime/manga fans think Japan is a paradise because its the home of this industry. They know nothing.

[dbboxkaifan]

internet Piracy is a major business killer for them too, like they mentioned. How can they make money if everything is more or less at our fingertips. A full season of anything is only a download away. I'm a culprit of this by the way... but more so because lack of money these days. We broke out here... If I had the means, I would definitely buy everything. Obviously.

It's still pretty strange how they have One Piece and Dragon Ball and things are this bad... goddamn.

There's pros and cons to internet piracy because if it weren't for the people who'd share them they'd never be known outside, unless companies themselves take action to get the series known in their own countries as such is Luk Internacional whom brought classics to Spain and Portugal, i.e, Doraemon, Shin-chan, Kiteretsu, Ninja Hatori and many others.

I've asked Luk Internacional about a DVD release for Shin-chan but they're not going to so I'm really stuck to the TV/DVB rips I have of it (with the Castellano dub) and it's very precious to me as the forums which had this have been shut down a while back (I only care for episodes 001-400 as onward it started to be dumbed-down).

If you want expensive, look no further than Aniplex.

Kill la Kill bluray 1. 4 episodes = 60 bucks.

Sword Art Online bluray 1. 7 episodes = 90 bucks

Gurren Lagann complete series + movies bluray set = 1,300 bucks

Anime Ltd. from UK is going to release Kill la Kill on three boxes and then on bigger volumes for those who want to own it but with a more affordable price so if you have a Region B / Region Free Blu-ray Player you might be interested.

Also, Gurren Lagann is getting a new Blu-ray release (it says "Complete") in UK which ranges about £43 on Amazon though on Base.com it's £42 (DVD ver. is £35).

My personal problem is, that if i want to use CrunchyRoll, or other streaming site, i get "This content is not available in your country/region" of course i try to support shows, by buying legal DVD/Blu-ray, but, i sometimes hate, that just because I'm European, I'm getting screwed, by either shopping problems, or region locks. How can i support company, if that company doesn't let me?

Importing for me is not a problem as I can buy it but what bothers me are the god damn custom fees (back in 2012 I didn't have any problems whatsoever with them) but websites such as United Publications UK take care of it so I don't have to worry about it.

Amazon.jp
YesAsia
PlayAsia
CDJapan
Amazon.com
United Publications UK
Amazon UK
Zavvi
TheHut
Base.com

I've never ordered from RightStuf considering I had other websites to purchase from but for US residents they're known to dispatch the items a week or two early for their customers which is awesome!

[Blade]

My biggest grievance with this whole situation is how the culpability for the conditions that these artists work under is deflected away from the profit making industry and towards the scapegoat of internet piracy.

The Japanese animation industry, as with much of the Japanese entertainment industry, is pretty solipsistic and inward looking. Domestic performance is always the key concern, with overseas revenue usually being no more than a secondary consideration. Having said that, the animation industry is probably the most outward-looking entertainment branch in Japan given the windfall of early 2000's boom era of overseas popularity, but nevertheless, on the whole overseas revenue from licensing deals and online simulcasting is rarely considered anything more than an additional form of income, with only few exceptions such as Dragonball and Pokemon.

Is the Japanese anime industry losing money? No - they're just not making as much profit as they did in the recent past, and this had led to an industry that has grown greedy and bloated during the boom era (which coincidentally was fueled by piracy) and is willing to fight tooth and nail for every penny in the black.

[JulieYBM]

That is not unfounded:

Chapter 8 is titled “Real Business.” It lives up to the name, delving into some of the raw figures of the industry, with Hiro focusing particularly on the “Anime Bubble” that started in 1998 and peaked in 2006 with a staggering 276 titles produced.

What started the bubble? First, 1998 saw WOWOW, a satellite TV station in Japan, begin to air free anime in their traditionally pay-per-view broadcast schedule. In October, they aired Cowboy Bebop, which ended up being popular enough to inspire other satellite networks to pursue anime productions. The result: more anime programming, with riskier content than you’d see on traditional, non-satellite networks.

But the biggest factor in creating that bubble was the influx of financial institutions and corporations suddenly getting into anime production during the late 1990s and early 2000s in the pursuit of what they saw as mass worldwide popularity of shows like Pokemon. Frequently, these investments were made with little to no research into what they were actually helping to fund, and the end result was pretty much what you’d expect: a market glutted with content to the point of unsustainability.

Fuuta and Hiro are both very upfront about how far things have come down from the mid-2000s. Current yearly production at Madhouse is an even six titles, down from nearly double that at the height of the bubble. What did they learn from those heady boom times? One, you can’t really support that many shows without going into the red, and two, to be careful of the character goods market -- nobody’s going to want to buy figures and other merchandise if they don’t like the show.

Fuuta busts out some statistics to illustrate the collapse in rentals/sales of DVDs and Blu-rays, which held steady at about 700 billion yen per year up until 2008. In 2006, 8.6% of consumers of anime DVDs were considered “heavy buyers,” who spent more than 30,000 yen a year on discs. By 2011, however, that figure had dropped to a mere 3.6%. Clearly, the market’s changed, which is why everyone in the industry’s been cutting back on production.

Well, almost everyone. Fuuta cites Toei Animation, for example, as still doing gangbusters even in the post-animepocalypse of 2013. They have the biggest hits in the business with One Piece and Pretty Cure, and they also have divisions dedicated solely to making their products more marketable, both domestically and overseas.

They’re an outlier. The rest of the industry, Hiro says, is going through a massive restructuring. Most of the studios in the industry have been forced to become child companies of larger corporations, Madhouse included -- they came under the umbrella of Nihon TV a few years ago. Oh, sure, there are a few holdouts. Production IG, Tokyo Animation and a few other companies have all remained independent even in light of the upheaval in the marketplace, but Fuuta has a hard time grasping how they’ve managed to stay afloat: “They’re all stealing from the same pie,” he says.

Although, again, the only people truly making a small amount of money is in-between animators. Even then it isn't like most in-betweeners don't have other jobs or live with family to support themselves. Just because you want to support yourself on animation alone it doesn't mean you have earned that privilege.

[Kid Buu]

Well, at least those Aniplex titles are in-print. I'm dying for a re-release of Urusei Yatsura, Maison Ikkoku, and Revolutionary Girl Utena.

Oh it turns out the latter is still in-print after all.

Time to bring back Urusei Yatsura and Maison Ikkoku then.

[GarrettCRW]

For comparison, here's the current wages as dictated by the IATSE's (that's the US animation guild) collective bargaining agreement with the Hollywood studios:

http://animationguild.org/wp-content/up ... 2-2015.pdf

The caveat, obviously, is that since Filmation was shut in 1989, pretty much zero actual animation work for TV is performed in the US, union or otherwise, and even back then, only studios working on syndicated shows employed animators year-round. And, naturally, there are the cost-of-living differences. But even with that all factored in, Japanese animators are still getting hosed (and Korean/Chinese/Indian/etc. animators are paid worse than that).

[JulieYBM]

For comparison, here's the current wages as dictated by the IATSE's (that's the US animation guild) collective bargaining agreement with the Hollywood studios:

http://animationguild.org/wp-content/up ... 2-2015.pdf

The caveat, obviously, is that since Filmation was shut in 1989, pretty much zero actual animation work for TV is performed in the US, union or otherwise, and even back then, only studios working on syndicated shows employed animators year-round. And, naturally, there are the cost-of-living differences. But even with that all factored in, Japanese animators are still getting hosed (and Korean/Chinese/Indian/etc. animators are paid worse than that).

Yeesh, it's no wonder. I'm really surprised we don't see animators taking lower pay so they can animate things in America. They can do what they love, improve (well, that's the hope) and get paid for it all at the same time. That union pay scale seems pretty silly, though. Pay ought to be based on skill and output; just because you want to be an animator it doesn't mean you deserve $40 an hour minimum. How much work are you putting out? Is the work of a high quality? I imagine with less output from animators sticking to this scale the level of skill and experience isn't nearly as high.

While we're on the subject, Peter Chung once revealed that American shows in Korea pay by the foot.

In Korea, American shows pay by the foot. (A unit that is meaningless today, but persists as part of the traditional professional lingo). Key animation on Nickelodeon's Avatar pays about 11000 won per foot ($11 currently). A 2 second cut is 3 feet (1.5 ft/sec). Most cuts are much longer. You can see why Korean animators don't want to work on Japanese shows.

Of course, Korean animators also don't do as much work. What they receive is less directing and more dictating. Layouts and timing are done back in the States, whereas Japanese animators do their own and will then have their layouts and timing approved or corrected by the episode director and animation supervisor.

That aside, I do think it's important to note that the news story this thread is based on is not quite up-to-date, given five years later the major concern is that schedules are too short thanks to high demand from production committees. In that respect, animation is profitable to those that fund it.

To paraphrase Animator Cindy H. Yamauchi: the teacher-apprentice system is critical to cultivating talent. If there is less time for the young animators to watch and learn from their seniors down the row at the studio then the industry will be effected. Space Dandy and No Game No Life are the only two recent series I can think of where the production committees afforded the studios--Bones and Madhouse respectively--time to complete series before they began airing. The former due to the decision to air it internationally simultaneously (which delayed the broadcast from Fall 2013 to Winter 2013) and the latter because Series Director Ishizuka Atsuko had another series to direct, from what I've heard.