Why wasn't Bra present in BOG?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Well, technically one wrong Daizenshu birth date suggested she was older, but it was contradicted by other sources. This includes another date in the very same book and even the GT guides (despite her older looking design and flirting in GT).

[dbzfan7]

Well, technically one wrong Daizenshu birth date suggested she was older, but it was contradicted by other sources. This includes another date in the very same book and even the GT guides (despite her older looking design and flirting in GT).

I could see it being possible for Z era Pan to maybe be older...though she looks younger, but no way is GT Bra younger than Pan. GT Bra looks older to me.

[White Oni]

Spoiler:

That^ is the only real image we have of bra from non-GT content...

Nothing about it suggest "Bra looks older than Pan."

Again, do you really think Gohan's daughter would enter the world tournament before Vegeta's? Especially if she was younger...

Makes perfect sense that Bra is younger, and since there's nothing canon contradicting it, and everything canon supporting it (BoG)

I ask the obvious question... What's the issue here?

[dbzfan7]

Spoiler:

That^ is the only real image we have of bra from non-GT content...

Nothing about it suggest "Bra looks older than Pan."

Again, do you really think Gohan's daughter would enter the world tournament before Vegeta's? Especially if she was younger...

Makes perfect sense that Bra is younger, and since there's nothing canon contradicting it, and everything canon supporting it (BoG)

I ask the obvious question... What's the issue here?

Bra looks older. Her face has less of the baby fat look. Also Bra was never a fighter ever. She never showed potential. Canon is also a subjective term as the webmaster VegettoEX would put it.

[White Oni]

Spoiler:

That^ is the only real image we have of bra from non-GT content...

Nothing about it suggest "Bra looks older than Pan."

Again, do you really think Gohan's daughter would enter the world tournament before Vegeta's? Especially if she was younger...

Makes perfect sense that Bra is younger, and since there's nothing canon contradicting it, and everything canon supporting it (BoG)

I ask the obvious question... What's the issue here?

Bra looks older. Her face has less of the baby fat look. Also Bra was never a fighter ever. She never showed potential. Canon is also a subjective term as the webmaster VegettoEX would put it.

Doesn't look older to me... Not at all... Besides, Goku retained baby fat into his early teen years, so....

Anyways, Bra was never a fighter in GT, which again, means absolutely nothing...

You can argue over the value of the term "canon" but it's pointless, as it's blatantly obvious that Non manga(or BoG) material is irrelevant to the question being asked in this thread.

We're being asked if there's a contradiction in BoG, and there wasn't. Simple as that.

[dbzfan7]

Spoiler:

That^ is the only real image we have of bra from non-GT content...

Nothing about it suggest "Bra looks older than Pan."

Again, do you really think Gohan's daughter would enter the world tournament before Vegeta's? Especially if she was younger...

Makes perfect sense that Bra is younger, and since there's nothing canon contradicting it, and everything canon supporting it (BoG)

I ask the obvious question... What's the issue here?

Bra looks older. Her face has less of the baby fat look. Also Bra was never a fighter ever. She never showed potential. Canon is also a subjective term as the webmaster VegettoEX would put it.

Doesn't look older to me... Not at all... Besides, Goku retained baby fat into his early teen years, so....

Anyways, Bra was never a fighter in GT, which again, means absolutely nothing...

You can argue over the value of the term "canon" but it's pointless, as it's blatantly obvious that Non manga(or BoG) material is irrelevant to the question being asked in this thread.

We're being asked if there's a contradiction in BoG, and there wasn't. Simple as that.

You're point about Pan entering before Bra if she was younger makes no sense. Bra was never a fighter so of course she would never enter a tournament period. Making that point moot.

Doesn't matter. I don't think I've ever seen the baby fat kid to be older than the one who's face looks more matured. Bra seems drawn older as her face is more mature. Also I include GT as GT would have another big plot hole if Bra was younger than Pan. It seems clear they drew Bra older in that series.

Can you honestly tell me if you've never seen these characters that you'd say Pan was older? It seems to me it's another retcon. It's not the first time too considering Goku's age was retconed early on and Bulma's is an inconsistency from BOG

[TheDevilsCorpse]

When I first watched the end of the series, I assumed that Bra was older than Pan. It had nothing to do with the two girls themselves though, and there really isn't anything that makes one seem like they are older than the other, Being so young at the time, I just initially found the idea that Gohan and Videl, who were still school age the last we saw them, had a kid before Bluma and Vegeta had their second a little odd. Getting older gives you a wider perspective on reality though. xD

Now just going off designs in GT, I would probably assume Bra was older. Even at this point in life. But she doesn't have to be (especially in anime). Some kids grow fast while others barely grow at all. Despite that, GT certainly goes a little out of its way to increase a bit of the creepy factor in regards to Bra, even if you do try to consider wonky Saiyan genetics coming into play. Depending on the exact dates of her birth and the GT episode, she's may not even be 9 and is already on a fairly disturbing flirtation path with adults...but GT does seem to be pretty irrelevant to BOG as things stand right now, so it doesn't really matter what they did.

[dbzfan7]

When I first watched the end of the series, I assumed that Bra was older than Pan. It had nothing to do with the two girls themselves though, and there really isn't anything that makes one seem like they are older than the other, Being so young at the time, I just initially found the idea that Gohan and Videl, who were still school age the last we saw them, had a kid before Bluma and Vegeta had their second a little odd. Getting older gives you a wider perspective on reality though. xD

Now just going off designs in GT, I would probably assume Bra was older. Even at this point in life. But she doesn't have to be (especially in anime). Some kids grow fast while others barely grow at all. Despite that, GT certainly goes a little out of its way to increase a bit of the creepy factor in regards to Bra, even if you do try to consider wonky Saiyan genetics coming into play. Depending on the exact dates of her birth and the GT episode, she's may not even be 9 and is already on a fairly disturbing flirtation path with adults...but GT does seem to be pretty irrelevant to BOG as things stand right now, so it doesn't really matter what they did.

Bra looks a little older to me.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[miguelnuva1]

I don't know what everyone is going on about.

There's like only 1 good shot of her in the manga, and she clearly looks younger than Pan.

Besides, do you honestly believe that Gohan would let his daughter enter the world tournament at a younger age than Vegeta?

If Pan and Bra where the same age, I'd imagine Vegeta would insist she enter with pan.

Vegeta was super soft on Bra even more backed up by GT.

Even more backed up by GT? Lol

Try, "only backed up by GT."

Which is entirely irreverent to the discussion we're having...

Wasn't Vegeta holding her hand? Vegeta had to die for Trunks to get a hug.

[White Oni]

Wasn't Vegeta holding her hand? Vegeta had to die for Trunks to get a hug.

Nope, he never has any interactions with her in the manga. None what so ever.

The closest he gets to her is when he's standing off to the side of the room she's in, arms crossed, looking the other direction.

There are 4 actual frames that I know of, in which, we see Bra.

1) The flash forward page full of floating heads with text under them. (Under's Bra's head it reads "Trunk's Sister")
____a) If you look at AT's art here, the 2 young girls have nearly identical facial structure. He used the same Nose, Mouth, and eye shape on them both. The only differences are hair and the fact that Bra has more blush.

2) We see her sitting next to Bulma and Oolong.

3) We see her in a zoomed out frame, in which we see all of Goku's friends sitting on a front row seat bench. (Note that Bra looks to be about as long in length, as the distance between Bulma's toes and her knees.)
____a) Pan is shown next to Goku, who's taller than Bulma, and is about Goku's knee level in height.
____b) So we can infer from here that Pan is taller than Bra, but that's being kinda picky, because artists rarely think out zoomed out shot dynamics THAT much. Could easily be a mistake.

4) We see her yell out the window of the room where everyone was watching Pan fight. (Note that Bra is old enough to speak well and understand concepts like death, as she says "Don't Kill him!" jokingly.)

So again, I see no reason to believe that Bra was/is older than Pan.

Just another case of GT confusing everyone. I'm surprised this is even being asked, when there are FAR bigger questions, concerning age, that we could ask. Like , why are Pilaf and gang SO old in GT? eh?

4) We next see her

[Scarz]

Bra might have not been in BoG but after Vegeta's rage boost (powered solely by love) and Bulma's yearning loins longing for him all over again, I'm sure by the next movie something's going to brewing in there.

[sailorspazz]

I've long wondered why Toriyama bothered creating Bra at all. She showed up at the very end of the series and, unlike Pan, she wasn't entering the tournament or anything, so she immediately became yet another character sitting on the sidelines. She's basically another Marron, though even Marron originally had the purpose of cementing the relationship between Kuririn and #18. With Bra, you're left wondering why Vegeta and Bulma decided to/accidentally had another kid in their late 40s. Maybe Toriyama just wanted Pan to have a part-Saiyan friend around her age? Or he knew that Toei might continue the series after he finished so he wanted to give them another character to work with (not that they did much with her, other than make everyone uncomfortable by dressing her up in a super skanky outfit when she's only 8 years old).

I do hope the 2015 movie has Bra present in some way, either as a baby or, like Pan before her, helping out with a Super Saiyan God transformation as a fetus. In my naive hope that this movie will allow Vegeta to get the transformation, I think it would be fitting to have his daughter help him out.

[Eire]

IMHO it had to indicate that everything went so smooth that they become real family and decided to have another baby. Because when you love each other you just have babies and to hell with Down Syndrome.

not that they did much with her, other than make everyone uncomfortable by dressing her up in a super skanky outfit when she's only 8 years old

They send her for shopping, don't you remember? God, I tried to get rid of that image for so long. We can say a lots of things about Toriyama's sense of humour, but he never had gone far enough to dress a preteen like a hooker.

[dbgtFO]

We can say a lots of things about Toriyama's sense of humour, but he never had gone far enough to dress a preteen like a hooker.

It was Toriyama that designed her like that, but of course he may not have known she was only going to be 9 years old.

[rereboy]

We can say a lots of things about Toriyama's sense of humour, but he never had gone far enough to dress a preteen like a hooker.

Right...

[Eire]

You have a weird feitsh, indeed.
While Chi-Chi has a revealing outfit it doesn't invoke the same feelings as red leather uniform. Picture above presents just another variation about "chainmail bikini" reserved for every even sightly empowered woman in fantasyland from Belit to Xena. Especially that boots, helmet and gloves remind us that she is a protagonist in adventure series.
Bra on the other hand... Red leather from toe to top of the head combined with long gloves and golden earrings. No fantasy, no adventure, just a lady who whips men for money.

[rereboy]

You have a weird feitsh, indeed.
While Chi-Chi has a revealing outfit it doesn't invoke the same feelings as red leather uniform. Picture above presents just another variation about "chainmail bikini" reserved for every even sightly empowered woman in fantasyland from Belit to Xena. Especially that boots, helmet and gloves remind us that she is a protagonist in adventure series.
Bra on the other hand... Red leather from toe to top of the head combined with long gloves and golden earrings. No fantasy, no adventure, just a lady who whips men for money.

I have no idea why you are trying to argue that the color of one's clothes being red and having earings and going to the mall somehow trumps running around more naked... When I look at Bra, I see a city girl using urban clothes that are probably in fashion right now in her world. She might be too young to be concerned with teenage or adult women fashion right now, but besides that there's nothing actually wrong. Your connection between her clothes and a hooker is completely arbitrary and forced.

Chichi is more naked in that picture than Bra. You don't see girls Chichi's age running around in the street in a bikini or in their bra and underwear for a reason (which is pretty much what she has going on in that outfit, a bra and underwear with some addons).

The fact that its socially accepted for everyone to be more naked at the beach doesn't change this at all, nor does the fact that one is basically a redneck living in the countryside and having adventures and the other a urban girl that goes to the mall.

[Eire]

When and where did I wrote anything about going anywhere? Actually that just supports my arguments- chichi is a heroine of fantasy genere where everyone is ultimate fashion diseaster, thus can be forgiven more than urban girl that was meant to be fashionable and accidentally finished in outfit that screams "stripper" from the distance. Maybe the skirt and top can defend themselves, but they just happen to be paired with illogically high boots plus red long gloves-both of them just happen to be highly fetishized things aviliable rather in sex shops than stores any teen can frequent.

[rereboy]

When and where did I wrote anything about going anywhere? Actually that just supports my arguments- chichi is a heroine of fantasy genere where everyone is ultimate fashion diseaster, thus can be forgiven more than urban girl that was meant to be fashionable and accidentally finished in outfit that screams "stripper" from the distance. Maybe the skirt and top can defend themselves, but they just happen to be paired with illogically high boots plus red long gloves-both of them just happen to be highly fetishized things aviliable rather in sex shops than stores any teen can frequent.

I'm sorry, but you are just arbitrarily deciding that that kind of boots = hooker/fetish and you can't even see how that's arbitrary, forced and kind of misogynistic. Meanwhile, another kid that's actually more naked with no reason to be is just "a protagonist in an fantasy adventure" and thus is completely excused even though both characters inhabit the same fantasy world. The incoherence is such that I can hardly guess how you can even argue that.

And you wrote about Bra going to the mall or shopping. So, yeah, you wrote about "going somewhere" as a relevant thing, I merely commented that.

[Eire]

Yes, because those boots and gloves are totally innocent addition you would let your daughter wear and no time, place and convention doesn't matter.
Last time I was crazy feminist with indecent avatar, so I guess I can bear being called mysogynic for a change.