What Would've Been a Better Beginning for Z?

[SSJ1Gohan]

I've just been wondering if there could have been a better explanation for Goku's power and his tail, because the alien thing is kind of BS. I mean, it works, but it's too different from the original Dragon Ball... I guess.
Sorry if somebody did this forum topic already, and please tell me if that is true.

[sintzu]

Z's beginning is the best thing to happen to the series cause it kicked the door open to limitless possibilities for the series that it never had or could have any other way.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

If they can have dogs as presidents then we really don't need an explanation for Goku having a tail really, guess AT wanted to spice things up.

[Chuquita]

I don't know about "better", but in terms of alternate explanations behind Gokû's origin; you could always go the "mystical adventure" route and pull more from Wukong's background for him--have him be some unique creature from some other Earthly or otherworldly realm. He could have parents, or been created by somebody, or have an out-of-nowhere type origin.

[SSJ1Gohan]

Z's beginning is the best thing to happen to the series cause it kicked the door open to limitless possibilities for the series that it never had or could have any other way.

I wouldn't say it was the best. I mean, it went from a parody of Journey to the West with martial arts, to a completely different genre! I don't hate Z, but it felt a lot weaker than the original Dragon Ball. Sort of like what happened with Naruto.

[Marco Polo]

Replace the aliens with deities inspired by Hindu ashuras or Buddhist demons or something.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I don't know about "better", but in terms of alternate explanations behind Gokû's origin; you could always go the "mystical adventure" route and pull more from Wukong's background for him--have him be some unique creature from some other Earthly or otherworldly realm. He could have parents, or been created by somebody, or have an out-of-nowhere type origin.

This is pretty much exactly what I wanted Dragon Ball SD to kind of be, eventually.

I mean, everyone remembers that first one shot, right? Where it was just a young Goku deliberately sent to train with Roshi by his grandfather? That was a pretty miniscule change, but at the same time...it could have had larger ramifications. It was a start to the series that got right to the fighting aspects, didn't introduce the Dragon Balls as early, and conceivably has Grandpa Gohan still alive, not to mention Goku hasn't met Bulma or the others just yet. As far as a 'series reboot' goes, I was really interested to see where that would have lead, and my hope had been for it to eventually develop to the point where Z budded off, but instead of going a sci fi route, it kept it mystical, even re-imagining future Z characters in different ways because of it.

...But then my hopes were instantly dashed with the second one shot. I'mma go back into my dark corner now.

[Gaffer Tape]

Z's beginning is the best thing to happen to the series cause it kicked the door open to limitless possibilities for the series that it never had or could have any other way.

Don't get me wrong. I love the twist of the Saiyan arc, and I think it did introduce a lot of new concepts and ideas. However, I disagree with the apparent implication that the series never had a fascinating, expansive world and mythology before that. I really disagree with the "limitless possibilities" thing because, if anything, the introduction of Saiyans severely limited the type of stories that DB told from that point on. DB's earth became remarkably less interesting, and most everything hinged on transformations. Again, not saying it's bad, but limitless? I just can't get behind that.

[SSJ1Gohan]

...But then my hopes were instantly dashed with the second one shot. I'mma go back into my dark corner now.

I felt exactly the same. But you gotta admit, it looked nice. And it was a decent short retelling.

[Herms]

I wouldn't say it was the best. I mean, it went from a parody of Journey to the West with martial arts, to a completely different genre!

It pretty much stopped being a parody of Journey to the West after the very first dragon ball hunt. After that it's a tournament, another DB hunt but one with zero JttW elements, a mini-tournament, a full-blown tournament, a Dragon Quest-inspired demon king, yet another tournament, and then Raditz et al. The entire Z era is just doing variations on the same basic "strong enemy appears, training and/or quickie power-up, victory!" plot line introduced with Tao Pai Pai and expanded on with Piccolo. The Saiyan arc's not a different genre than what came immediately before it, it just adds aliens into the mix (along with an afterlife, a truckload of new gods, and other fantasy elements). Even back at the beginning of the series, what's Oolong's first guess when he learns Goku turns into a giant monkey whenever he looks at the full moon? "This kid must be some kind of alien!" And at the 23rd TB when Shen says he's not really human, Yamcha likewise assumes he must be an alien. Plus Penguin Village is full of aliens, though their origins obviously aren't explored much during the brief DB/Dr. Slump crossover. So aliens might not be officially introduced until the Saiyan arc, but they're definitely not too far outside the series' worldview even before then.

[Jackal puFF]

Yeah I always noticed some reference to aliens in dragonball. Most of it towards Goku too.

I don't know what could be better than a crazy plot twist like that. It wasn't surprising though, the more surprising thing was Goku having a brother to me.

[soulnova]

Yeah I always noticed some reference to aliens in dragonball. Most of it towards Goku too.

Exactly. It's a big coincidence that back during the Red Ribbon Arc, we get to see this:





This shot was from the fight of Goku and the Sergeant Metallic/Major Metallitron during the Red Ribbon arc. We got this brief scene of his vision scanning Goku and identifying him as an alien. This episode came out years before Goku's Saiyan heritage was revealed in the manga. So it is a big, BIG coincidence because it IS talking about an alien (as in extraterrestrial) life form. You may say he meant "alien" as in "intruder"... Well, the text to his right is an easter egg of the movie ALIEN.

INTERFACE 2037
READY FOR INQUIRY
REQUEST CLARIFICA-
-TION ON
SCIENCE INABILITY TO
NEUTRALIZE ALIEN
UNABLE TO CLARIFY

REQUEST ENHANCE-
-MENT
NO FURTHER ENHANCE-
-MENT SPECIAL
ORDER 937
SCIENcE OFFICER
EYES ONLY


This is the meaning of Special Order 937...

SPECIAL ORDER 937: "NOSTROMO REROUTED TO NEW COORDINATES. INVESTIGATE LIFE FORM. GATHER SPECIMEN. PRIORITY ONE. INSURE RETURN OF ORGANISM FOR ANALYSIS. ALL OTHER CONSIDERATIONS SECONDARY. CREW EXPENDABLE."

Kudos to the animation team for pulling that one.

I don't know what could be better than a crazy plot twist like that. It wasn't surprising though, the more surprising thing was Goku having a brother to me.

Raditz being evil and his brother was the biggest shock of all for me too.

[sintzu]

I really disagree with the "limitless possibilities" thing because, if anything, the introduction of Saiyans severely limited the type of stories that DB told from that point on.

So you're saying that the arc that kicked the door open for

Aliens
Time travel
After life
Demon realm
Gods of destruction
Multiple universes

Has severely limited the series ?

The saiyan saga has allowed the story to go way beyond what it could before and without that Dragon Ball would be nothing.

[Gaffer Tape]

All of those things are great. Most of them have nothing to do with Goku's heritage and don't at all require it to have happened. Aliens? Sure. Time travel. Other than one of the time travelers (who had nothing to do with its creation) being a part-alien Earthling, nope. Afterlife... not really directly connected to that idea, but since it came part and parcel with it, I'll go ahead and give you that one. Demon realm... again, has nothing to do with Goku being an alien, and the TV series came up with that idea a couple of years before Raditz. Gods of destruction... while Beerus's stated desire to visit Earth is due to Goku's heritage and is tied in heavily to the Freeza arc, the idea itself is still not directly tied to that, and the idea of gods in the Dragon World existed before Goku was revealed to be an alien. Multiple universes... also has nothing to do with Goku being an alien.

And, again, I absolutely love the Saiyan arc and mostly love the ideas it introduced. But to say it's responsible for all of the above things when most of them seem to be more in line tonally with the kind of mystical world Dragon Ball had built up *before* Goku was revealed to be an alien is something that really doesn't make much sense to me. On the contrary, Dragon Ball could have easily had all of those things without Goku being a Saiyan. So I really don't get why you're trying to say all of those ideas hinged on a plot point that's unrelated to most of them.

Now, if you'd made a list comprised of scouters, that cool armor, battle powers, artificial moons, and the like, then I'd be on board.

[dbboxkaifan]

More or less the same except with a few changes:

- Raditz would be voiced by Masako Nozawa (he is after all part of Bardock's family)
- Raditz should have kicked Kuririn in the crotch than bitchslap him with his tail
- Given that Raditz needed proof to know if Goku was still threatening being he should've asked him to blow up an entire city (just to make things edgier).
- Before Raditz dying completely they could've made him enter the BERSERK MODE!!
- If Nappa wasn't too cocky things would have been a lot more interesting.
- Vegeta needed to be much taller because he looked to be the height of a kid.