Schemmel never heard Nozawa till 2004

[Super Sonic]

With Samurai Pizza Cats, remember some things were done differently in the early 90s. Heck, even before, as the Voltron dvds' extras had the surviving cast say they didn't see the show in Japanese as well as instructions they got on how to do some things.

[Looneygamemaster]

In Anime it's common that the animation is done after the voices have been recorded.

Actually, it's the other way around--voices are recorded after the animation is done. The only exceptions I know of are Akira, Red Garden and parts of Only Yesterday.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I'm sorry Mr Vegetto EX but I have to say it: Its NOT a big deal. And no, he's not an evil unprofessional bastard for this. I know you didnt say and dont think that way it but others are more than happy to think that way of him. I really hate this way of thinking.

[MagicBox]

Oh, and McFarland's never directed DBZ (unless he did a movie somewhere along the line? I believe he did do DB though), it was pretty much always Sabat.

Of the top of my head, I remember him being the ADR director for some of the fake Namek episodes, and likely more. I remember because Tiffany Vollmer in particular sounded great during that arc. She just used her normal voice for once. No shouting, nothing particularly over-the-top. I remember being so impressed that I actually checked the credits to see who directed her.

[Attitudefan]

Mimicking the original actor is stupid, especially if you can't do it. An actor's job is to make the role their own, not copy another actor.

Then you would hire someone who does play the part. It's a dub, not an origianl work; it is supposed to be a near identical experience of the original so the audience doesn't miss out on the original intent. I hate how, because of FUNi's mishandling of DBZ, that people assume it is okay to be different in a dub by a large margin. It's insulting to the original creators.

Funny, the Ocean actors were privy to the Japanese original. It is no wonder that the reason their performances were closer to the original is because they were aware of it and tried to do it justice with the material they had (especially for the films like Dead Zone; that dub is spot on at well over 90 percent accuracy in voice matching).

But let me get this through to the people who disagree that the dub is free from the original: it isn't. It's meant to be the same experience without the language barrier. It's a dub, not an original work.

No wonder FUNi's in-house episodes were god awful! At least if they could see the Japanese cast acting, they could mimic the Japanese cast's inflections and acting... All the more reason to say that the Ocean cast is more definitive than the FUNi cast. The Ocean cast had the original in mind and based their acting off of. Kelamis even states how he was watching the episodes in Japanese (refering to Goku's naked arse in the Namek arc), and how the screams were tough to pull off accurately. He did, however, base his voice off of Nozawa (and that's why his was the closer to the original than Schemmel's will ever be).

[ABED]

Back in the early days of the English dub "Goku" was just a pay check for the actors. This is evidenced by the fact the original actor Ian Corlett left because he wanted more money. Sean also probably just saw the role as a pay check/job early on, but now since he's been doing Goku for so long you can tell he's actually started caring about his performance & it's faithfulness to Nozawa's take. It's obvious that, like a lot of the FUNi cast, he is actually a fan of the show himself just like all of us.

There's no issue with someone taking a role for money. You don't have to be passionate about a role or super knowledgeable about what you're acting in to be good. CCH Pounder is excellent as Amanda Waller, but knows little about the comics or even the character she's playing. She's given the script and direction, but it's clear she enjoys what she's doing. I'm not claiming Sean is CCH Pounder, but I don't think he's terrible either.

it is supposed to be a near identical experience of the original

No, it's supposed to fit. There's no requirement that the actors be close to the original cast. Their only job is to deliver a good performance. it's the job of the director to hire good talent, make sure the voice fits the character, and give the actors whatever they need in order to deliver a good performance.

At least if they could see the Japanese cast acting, they could mimic the Japanese cast's inflections and acting... All the more reason to say that the Ocean cast is more definitive than the FUNi cast. The Ocean cast had the original in mind and based their acting off of. Kelamis even states how he was watching the episodes in Japanese (refering to Goku's naked arse in the Namek arc), and how the screams were tough to pull off accurately.

Acting like a previous cast is not a good idea. The ocean cast was better in the beginning because they were seasoned veterans. Kelamis is awful. He has good screams but he's terrible as Goku. His inflections are so unnatural.

Choosing a different voice for the character is one thing (for example, take the already mentioned Mexican dub: they used the Japanese version as a base and their Goku sounds nothing like Nozawa), but if English language VAs just tend to act their lines the way the director wants regardless of the original performance, to my eyes it's disrespectful to the original version. Dubbing isn't creating a new series, but translating one which already exists in another language.

How is it disrespectful? Is it just because it's different? I still fail to see how that shows disrespect to the original cast. The original actors were giving their own interpretations of the material, so why shouldn't subsequent actors have that freedom. The original work is Toriyama's manga. Any actor who plays Macbeth should be free to give his/her own take on the material regardless of what other actors have done.

[90sDBZ]

Well lets look at it this way. Sean had already been instructed to impersonate BOTH Ian Corlett and Peter Kelamis. He was literally trying to impersonate 2 different performances at once already. Asking him to impersonate Nozawa in addition to those 2 would have resulted in something really strange. Sean started to sound more natural as Goku once he started to make it his own later on in Season 3.

Getting every actor who plays Goku to listen to Nozawa first would be like getting every Bond actor to watch Sean Connery beforehand. At the end of the day you're better off having Sean Schemmel playing Goku as opposed to Sean Schemmel playing Nozawa/Corlett/Kelamis playing Goku.

[Gyt Kaliba]

it is supposed to be a near identical experience of the original

No, it's supposed to fit. There's no requirement that the actors be close to the original cast. Their only job is to deliver a good performance. it's the job of the director to hire good talent, make sure the voice fits the character, and give the actors whatever they need in order to deliver a good performance.

This, so much so. I mean, yes, ideally an actor or actress will be cast that is able to not only deliver an amazing performance but also will sound somewhat similar to the original version, but if they do? GREAT. If they don't, but still turn in a good performance? GREAT. If they sound exactly the same as their counterpart but sound stiff as a wooden box? Ehhhh...

[Kid Buu]

It was kind of hard to get access to the original version back in the day, since the DVDs were still expensive and legal streaming wasn't common yet. I didn't even hear the original voices until 2004 myself.

[Adamant]

In this particular case, though. we're talking about a mess of a dub produced by writer and directors who barely knew a thing about the series (and started dubbing halfway through, for that matter), with inexperienced actors cast in roles they didn't fit in the slightest.

The actors probably don't deserve too much blame for their poor show, but it doesn't really change the fact that in an ideal world, none of them would have been going anywhere near the franchise.

[Eire]

it is supposed to be a near identical experience of the original

No, it's supposed to fit. There's no requirement that the actors be close to the original cast. Their only job is to deliver a good performance. it's the job of the director to hire good talent, make sure the voice fits the character, and give the actors whatever they need in order to deliver a good performance.

This, so much so. I mean, yes, ideally an actor or actress will be cast that is able to not only deliver an amazing performance but also will sound somewhat similar to the original version, but if they do? GREAT. If they don't, but still turn in a good performance? GREAT. If they sound exactly the same as their counterpart but sound stiff as a wooden box? Ehhhh...

Well, speaking from country that haven't spawned a doemstical cartoon since 2004- dubbing studios prefer preformance over similarity.
Look at Frozen- the love child of the biggest animation company who can afford any actor or sincger worldwide. Castings were held by regional branches, but central studio supervised the whole process, so you can't argue that creaturs wouldn't like it. And the preformances varied as they could- youtube if full of comparasions. Some countries had two voices for every female lead, some kept one. 18 years old first timers, expireinced musical actresses, singers, voice actresses, deep, low pitched, high pitched- but someway they fit.
I have an impression that most of USA folks are very harsh when it comes to dubbing, since most of their expireince is based on the cartoons written oryginally for English actors. Dubbing will never give the same expirience, so one must bascially find a new quality. Something that will fit the picture overally, not ape oryginals.
PS. Voice is recorded before drawing in big-budget Western animation. In anime you work with per-existing footage.

[Super Sonic]

Mimicking the original actor is stupid, especially if you can't do it. An actor's job is to make the role their own, not copy another actor.

Then you would hire someone who does play the part. It's a dub, not an origianl work; it is supposed to be a near identical experience of the original so the audience doesn't miss out on the original intent. I hate how, because of FUNi's mishandling of DBZ, that people assume it is okay to be different in a dub by a large margin. It's insulting to the original creators.

Japan does that too. While I haven't seen Transformers in Japanese, from what I've heard Convoy as he's known there isn't imitating Peter Cullen.

[Kamiccolo9]

Mimicking the original actor is stupid, especially if you can't do it. An actor's job is to make the role their own, not copy another actor.

Then you would hire someone who does play the part. It's a dub, not an origianl work; it is supposed to be a near identical experience of the original so the audience doesn't miss out on the original intent. I hate how, because of FUNi's mishandling of DBZ, that people assume it is okay to be different in a dub by a large margin. It's insulting to the original creators.

Funny, the Ocean actors were privy to the Japanese original. It is no wonder that the reason their performances were closer to the original is because they were aware of it and tried to do it justice with the material they had (especially for the films like Dead Zone; that dub is spot on at well over 90 percent accuracy in voice matching).

But let me get this through to the people who disagree that the dub is free from the original: it isn't. It's meant to be the same experience without the language barrier. It's a dub, not an original work.

No wonder FUNi's in-house episodes were god awful! At least if they could see the Japanese cast acting, they could mimic the Japanese cast's inflections and acting... All the more reason to say that the Ocean cast is more definitive than the FUNi cast. The Ocean cast had the original in mind and based their acting off of. Kelamis even states how he was watching the episodes in Japanese (refering to Goku's naked arse in the Namek arc), and how the screams were tough to pull off accurately. He did, however, base his voice off of Nozawa (and that's why his was the closer to the original than Schemmel's will ever be).

And I disagree with basically everything you said. A dub's job is to make a good version of the show, not try to copy the original. Wasting time trying to mimic Nozawa is stupid when you can do your own perfectly good take on the character. This isn't criticism of the Japanese cast, it's saying that it is a pointless endeavor to try to force a cast that speaks a totally different language, one with its own unique quirks and inflections, to sound like that of another language.

It's not insulting to anyone. They aren't doing this because they think they are better than the original cast; they're doing it because trying to copy the original cast is limiting the possibility of their performances. If anything, it's demeaning to the dub cast to have to restrict their performance to mimicking the originals.

I mean, and not to be gruesome or anything, if Nozawa were to die, would you rather Goku be played by someone who just can't quite pull off her take on Goku, or someone who has a new take on him that stays true to the character, and makes him their own?

And no, I do not think the Ocean cast is better than Funimation's current efforts by any degree, if at all. And one of the biggest problems with Funimation's cast early on was that they were forced to mimic the Ocean cast, instead of making the roles their own.

In summation, limiting your actors is stupid. You want to strive for, or to surpass, the quality of the original; you don't want to try to make a carbon copy of it.

[Kakacarrottop]

And no, I do not think the Ocean cast is better than Funimation's current efforts by any degree, if at all. And one of the biggest problems with Funimation's cast early on was that they were forced to mimic the Ocean cast, instead of making the roles their own.

Even if they weren't asked to copy the Ocean actors they'd still be terrible initially since they were all literally random people hired off the street with no prior acting experience, in stark contrast to Ocean's cast.

[Kamiccolo9]

Even if they weren't asked to copy the Ocean actors they'd still be terrible initially since they were all literally random people hired off the street with no prior acting experience, in stark contrast to Ocean's cast.

Which is why I said "one of the biggest problems." They weren't allowed to grow as actors until they stopped being force to copy the cast before them.

[garnetjester]

Nozawa's case is very particular though, I don't think any dub adult Goku sounds like her at all, because she delivers a very unique performance. However, I do think that without sounding anything like her, some dub actors still manage to portray Goku as the carefree, goofy guy he is outside of battles, which is what makes him truly Goku IMO.

I don't think sounding the same as the original is important, but keeping the character's personality traits and quirks definitely is. Because it's a character that already exists. I mean, I think that considering dubbing as something independent from the original work is weird, because the point of dubbing is just getting things across to a different audience, but esentially they should be the same things.

I don't know if watching Nozawa's Goku performance would've given Schemmel more insight into Goku's personality, I think the real mistake there was that he had no context for who was Goku because FUNI ignored all the DB episodes, but that's obviously not Sean's fault.

[Appūru-sama]

Of course he hasn't heard Nozawa, that why his Goku has always sounded like a boring discount Superman goody-goody. He definitely improved over the last few years but I suspect that's only because he's finally gotten around to watching the original version, which IMO shows his laziness as an actor to not do his homework. That's what irks me about him and Sabat high-fiving each other for doing a faithful dub via Kai. Like, wow it only took us 14 years to get our job's right lol.

Granted Schemmel WAS chosen and directed to play Goku similarly to his American predecessors, but he still had more than enough time and resources to research his character's roots and see that Goku is a hick, he's uneducated, he uses the KAIO-ken and not the KAYO-ken, etc. etc.

I don't see how that proves anything about Sean's take. The show is based on a comic book with no sound, there's no set law on which take is "correct" just because Japan did it first.

When the creator of said comic personally chooses the voice actor for his protagonist, and is quoted to say that her voice is impossible for him to separate from Goku's, then uh yeah...it seems pretty set. There is no such thing as a Japanese version of Dragonball Z. Dragonball Z IS Japanese. That would be like Ewan McGregor deciding Obi Wan should talk with a Scottish accent.

Mimicking the original actor is stupid, especially if you can't do it. An actor's job is to make the role their own, not copy another actor.

It's not about copying or mimicking, it's about respecting the source material. Use the source as a foundation or basis, and build your own performance from there. As an actor, I know very well that acting a subjective art form and most actors prefer to have their own "method" or whatever. But to disregard the original version all together is the epitome of arrogance and idiocy.

[Kakacarrottop]

Granted Schemmel WAS chosen and directed to play Goku similarly to his American predecessors
.

What American predecessors? All his English actors prior to Sean were Canadian (if you count Kelamis as Canadian since he was born in Australia to Greek parents) which explains why English Goku today still sort of sounds Canadian. If an American got the Goku role first (instead of Corlett who had a thick Canadian accent) then Goku might have sounded slightly different today in English.

[Appūru-sama]

Granted Schemmel WAS chosen and directed to play Goku similarly to his American predecessors
.

What American predecessors? All his English actors prior to Sean were Canadian (if you count Kelamis as Canadian since he was born in Australia to Greek parents) which explains why English Goku today still sort of sounds Canadian. If an American got the Goku role first (instead of Corlett who had a thick Canadian accent) then Goku might have sounded slightly different today in English.

Pardon...North American predecessors (the continent, not the country).

[Gyt Kaliba]

He definitely improved over the last few years but I suspect that's only because he's finally gotten around to watching the original version, which IMO shows his laziness as an actor to not do his homework.

It's not his job to do research though, at all. If anything it's a director's job to help guide the actor into where they're trying to go with the performance, and an actor's job to try and meet those expectations while also trying to bring something of themselves to the table. His 'not researching' isn't laziness in any shape or fashion, especially not when, say what you will about it, going for exactly the same feeling as the Japanese was not FUNimation of the time's intention. Playing Goku was first and foremost a job, and if he wanted to keep the job, he would have had to follow what the company wanted.

Granted Schemmel WAS chosen and directed to play Goku similarly to his American predecessors, but he still had more than enough time and resources to research his character's roots and see that Goku is a hick, he's uneducated, he uses the KAIO-ken and not the KAYO-ken, etc. etc.

Again, totally not Schemmel's call.

When the creator of said comic personally chooses the voice actor for his protagonist, and is quoted to say that her voice is impossible for him to separate from Goku's, then uh yeah...it seems pretty set. There is no such thing as a Japanese version of Dragonball Z. Dragonball Z IS Japanese. That would be like Ewan McGregor deciding Obi Wan should talk with a Scottish accent.

Definition of version - 'a particular form of something differing in certain respects from an earlier form or other forms of the same type of thing'. Being the original audio doesn't stop that from being a 'version' of the show, it just makes it the 'original version'. That aside, whether or not foreign versions of the series met certain expectations probably wasn't Toriyama's call, nor was it particularly in his interests at the time no doubt.