Could Yi Xing Long be from another universe? (GT/BoG theory)

[CatouttaHell]

Just a crackpot theory that's been banging around in my head for a while. Still not sure if this makes any sense whatsoever but here goes:

Yi Xing Long = Omega Shenron/the final dragon
Si Xing Long = The fire dragon that becomes an ally eventually

I'm a big GT fan but it always bothered me how powerful YXL and the rest of the Evil Dragons were. The Dragon Balls can't even kill Nappa, but the negative energy from wishes being made is somehow enough to generate a being that is almost SSj4 fusion tier?

In light of Battle of Gods there may finally be an odd way to explain them if you can accept that GT and BoG happened in the same timeline.

After Beerus and Son Goku fight in Battle of Gods, Beerus mentions that there is a multiverse and that Beerus is only the God of Destruction in the seventh universe (the only canon one.) This makes it pretty clear that there are up to 11 other Gods of Destruction that we are not aware of.

In GT when Yi Xing Long kills and absorbs Si Xing Long again he remarks that he is a "god of destruction."

While I realise GT was made decades before BoG and Toei just wrote that as a grandiose statement and not as a reference to something that Toriyama came up with much later on, his power would make a Lot more sense if he was indeed a literal God of Destruction who came to Earth from a parallel universe.

How did a God of Destruction from a different universe come to Earth through the Dragon Balls and why were he and his minions so closely associated with the Dragon Balls? Furthermore why does he even Have so many underlings?

Regarding the first issue, remember the last wish made on the Earth's Dragon Balls was made in the Boo arc. The Evil Dragons arc took place 16 years after that. The wish that turned Son Goku young was made on Piccolo Daimao's dragon balls, as was Baby's wish to recreate the Tsufuru-jin planet. The wish to restore Earth was made on the Namekseijin DBs.

If the Dragon Balls only became corrupt then, then it was not just the wishes on the DBs that were at fault here.

The DBs only became corrupted after Dr. Mu and Dr. Gero screwed with the fabric of the universe by attaching Hell to the living world and invaded the living world with dead villains.

Between powerful magical objects that can create entire planets, resurrect people, etc being corroded with negative energy and the dimensional crisis caused by the living world and the world of the dead becoming one, it's not a stretch that a powerful enough being like YXL could use this to invade this universe.

In the original DB, people on par with Evil Boo/SSj3 Gotenks or higher could scream holes into other dimensions, and in Anime filler Gohan-Boo was able to scream the entire universe apart and threaten to collapse it.

An incomprehensibly more powerful being like YXL being able to travel the multiverse by taking advantage of a situation like this is not unthinkable.

It's also worth noting this interesting tidbit from the GT Perfect Files translations on this website:

For a long time, the original Dragon Balls were used no more than once in a hundred years. But, with the advent of Gokuu and friends, Shenlon has been summoned countless times over the last 50 years. This has caused a build up of negative energy within the Dragon Balls. Pretty soon, the Balls will crack open and release that energy. The negative energy will then attract 7 evil Dragons from a neighboring galaxy. Each Dragon has a DB somewhere within its body, and is named after their corresponding Dragon Ball's true name. That is, the Dragon with the #2 Ball is called "Ryan-Shinlon."

It's not flat-out saying they come from a different universe, but that's likely because the multiverse was yet to be introduced and this was the closest they could go without going a bit crazy. We have no idea how exactly the multiverse works and where or how the universes exist. The simplest idea would be that they're just giant spheres or whatever situated next to each other, so from that interpretation it's possible the galaxy could be in a parallel universe and still be "neighbouring" the galaxy the Earth exists in...

As for why YXL is so closely tied to the DBs, it's possible that his universe also has (a very different and much more powerful set of) Dragon Balls and his origins are tied to them, or that the Dragon Balls are simply his link back to his world.

One thing that always puzzled me was how Si Xing Long could die and then simply return from his DB. Also the issue of how Piccolo could handle the Evil Dragons if they went to Hell.

In light of this it's possible that none of them died, they were simply sent back to their own world and could continue coming back all they wanted (like the villains that escaped Hell) if it weren't for Shen Long taking the Dragon Balls with him for 100 years, possibly to purify them of whatever YXL did to them to make them usable as a gateway.

As for who his minions are. I imagine they're simply parts of him in the way that Cyborg 17 and 18 are part of Perfect Cell and he purposefully unleashed them first so he could spy and see what he's dealing with in this new universe.

He Did say he was a God of Destruction when he had re-absorbed all the DBs so for the purposes of this theory at least, his Super form is his true form and the only reason he wasn't in it to begin with is because of the whole preferring to send out a bunch of extremely diverse minions to get a feel for what he'll be up against.

Battle power wise I feel Super Yi Xing Long is a good place to put Beerus if attempting to make a list that includes both BoG and GT. It's arguably implied that Beerus is on a level unimaginable to even someone who has the memories of the almighty Vegetto and most likely knows how powerful SSj3 Vegetto would be. Yi Xing Long should also be vastly superior to any form of Z Vegetto IMO going by Super Vegeta-Baby > SSj Vegetto > Vegeta-Baby.

EDIT: After some more thinking, that has to be it. Yi Xing Long being from Universe 7 makes no sense whatsoever. He made it clear that his goal is to obliterate the entire universe and Elder Kaioshin's vision made it clear he would soon do just that.

Unless Yi Xing Long was just peacefully lounging on a couch somewhere deep in another galaxy in Universe 7 and suddenly flew into a universe-destroying rage over corrupted Dragon Balls, he had to have come from another universe altogether IMO.

It would explain Yi Xing Long's motives a bit more. If he's a Hakaishin then he's a being whose only purpose is to destroy things. However, Whis stopping Beerus during his solar system busting rampage at the end of BoG implies there's checks in place to stop a God of Destruction from systematically destroying the whole universe out of boredom.

Perhaps he relocated to Universe 7 since he was not the Hakaishin there and thus was a "neutral" being like Freeza and could run wild and kill/destroy as much as he wanted without consequence at long last.

Son Goku wanted to stay dead after the Cell arc due to believing himself to be a magnet for evil. Him leaving for 100 years with the Dragon Balls is a nice callback to that since now even the corrupted DBs have become a magnet for unstoppable evil beings from other worlds.

[NeoKING]

For a long time, the original Dragon Balls were used no more than once in a hundred years. But, with the advent of Gokuu and friends, Shenlon has been summoned countless times over the last 50 years. This has caused a build up of negative energy within the Dragon Balls. Pretty soon, the Balls will crack open and release that energy. The negative energy will then attract 7 evil Dragons from a neighboring galaxy. Each Dragon has a DB somewhere within its body, and is named after their corresponding Dragon Ball's true name. That is, the Dragon with the #2 Ball is called "Ryan-Shinlon."

I wish I can see the original Japanese text in the Perfect Files for this. The whole "-from a neighboring galaxy" part is interesting. Here I thought the dragons came from within the Dragon Balls. Of interest to note is that during the actual GT episode where the Evil Dragons are released, Popo says that the dragon(s) / Cigar-Smoking Shenlong had destroyed other galaxies in the past. Or, something to that effect.

[ArchedThunder]

After Beerus and Son Goku fight in Battle of Gods, Beerus mentions that there is a multiverse and that Beerus is only the God of Destruction in the seventh universe (the only canon one.) This makes it pretty clear that there are up to 11 other Gods of Destruction that we are not aware of.

The 7th universe is not the "only canon one", it's just the one that everything we've seen takes place in, the other 11 universes are canon, they just haven't been shown.

[Friezacooler]

Mr Roshi mentioned something about this in early dragonball chapters:

"The Legend, as I was told, goes something like this. In the beginning there was only one Dragon Ball. It was huge. I mean REALLY huge, it had to be. It held all of the mystical energies of the universe. An ancient tribe discovered it, and was inspired by its magnificent power. They built a shrine around it, and protected the orb by placing it in the mouth of a giant Dragon statue, said to be its eternal guardian. You should have seen the detail on this thing, it was INCREDIBLE, scales made of Ruby, teeth of pearl -speaking of pearl, they say there was this one native girl ("GET ON WITH IT!")- yes, well, the tribe enjoyed years of prosperity until one day, evil paid a visit to the village in the form of a band of thieves. These agents of Darkness stormed the temple in an attempt to steal the Dragon Ball for their own selfish gain. They were shocked to discover the true power of the Ball. To ensure such an attack never happened again, the Dragon Ball was divided into seven smaller orbs, and scattered across the globe. Separately, the Dragon Balls were useless, but when all seven were united, then a single voice could summon the Eternal Dragon for one wish, and one wish only. Some wishes were pure, but others were tainted by blind ambition. This led to pain and suffering as an unjust few wished for power and dominion over mankind. But as the story goes there will one day come a hero who will use the Dragon Balls for goodness, and bring peace and unity to the world once more."

[KameRule]

Mr Roshi mentioned something about this in early dragonball chapters:

"The Legend, as I was told, goes something like this. In the beginning there was only one Dragon Ball. It was huge. I mean REALLY huge, it had to be. It held all of the mystical energies of the universe. An ancient tribe discovered it, and was inspired by its magnificent power. They built a shrine around it, and protected the orb by placing it in the mouth of a giant Dragon statue, said to be its eternal guardian. You should have seen the detail on this thing, it was INCREDIBLE, scales made of Ruby, teeth of pearl -speaking of pearl, they say there was this one native girl ("GET ON WITH IT!")- yes, well, the tribe enjoyed years of prosperity until one day, evil paid a visit to the village in the form of a band of thieves. These agents of Darkness stormed the temple in an attempt to steal the Dragon Ball for their own selfish gain. They were shocked to discover the true power of the Ball. To ensure such an attack never happened again, the Dragon Ball was divided into seven smaller orbs, and scattered across the globe. Separately, the Dragon Balls were useless, but when all seven were united, then a single voice could summon the Eternal Dragon for one wish, and one wish only. Some wishes were pure, but others were tainted by blind ambition. This led to pain and suffering as an unjust few wished for power and dominion over mankind. But as the story goes there will one day come a hero who will use the Dragon Balls for goodness, and bring peace and unity to the world once more."

So the Namekian Balls are just one huge contradiction then.

[CatouttaHell]

I wish I can see the original Japanese text in the Perfect Files for this. The whole "-from a neighboring galaxy" part is interesting. Here I thought the dragons came from within the Dragon Balls. Of interest to note is that during the actual GT episode where the Evil Dragons are released, Popo says that the dragon(s) / Cigar-Smoking Shenlong had destroyed other galaxies in the past. Or, something to that effect.

I am 99% sure that this is the page that translation is for... though I don't know how accurate it is at all. I don't recall seeing anything about this in Herms' GT Perfect Files translations threads.

As for the Mr. Popo quote:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

He doesn't seem to state that it was that same dragon specifically, though nothing says it wasn't. He never says anything about the dragon(s) being stopped after their rampage so it's possible he/they just went back to wherever he/they came from after destroying the galaxy and awaited the day when he/they could return for another rampage.

The 7th universe is not the "only canon one", it's just the one that everything we've seen takes place in, the other 11 universes are canon, they just haven't been shown.

Yeah that was terrible wording on my part. I meant that it was the universe where all canon events thus far have transpired in.

Mr Roshi mentioned something about this in early dragonball chapters:

"The Legend, as I was told, goes something like this. In the beginning there was only one Dragon Ball. It was huge. I mean REALLY huge, it had to be. It held all of the mystical energies of the universe. An ancient tribe discovered it, and was inspired by its magnificent power. They built a shrine around it, and protected the orb by placing it in the mouth of a giant Dragon statue, said to be its eternal guardian. You should have seen the detail on this thing, it was INCREDIBLE, scales made of Ruby, teeth of pearl -speaking of pearl, they say there was this one native girl ("GET ON WITH IT!")- yes, well, the tribe enjoyed years of prosperity until one day, evil paid a visit to the village in the form of a band of thieves. These agents of Darkness stormed the temple in an attempt to steal the Dragon Ball for their own selfish gain. They were shocked to discover the true power of the Ball. To ensure such an attack never happened again, the Dragon Ball was divided into seven smaller orbs, and scattered across the globe. Separately, the Dragon Balls were useless, but when all seven were united, then a single voice could summon the Eternal Dragon for one wish, and one wish only. Some wishes were pure, but others were tainted by blind ambition. This led to pain and suffering as an unjust few wished for power and dominion over mankind. But as the story goes there will one day come a hero who will use the Dragon Balls for goodness, and bring peace and unity to the world once more."

No offence but that's the English dub. In the original Japanese IIRC it just said that people used it to wish for peace and prosperity, until evil people appeared and began to use it for other uses. This started wars and angered the gods, who split the ball into the 7 Dragon Balls.

Either way IMO it doesn't really prove or disprove anything here. It seems bizarre that God was okay with people using the Dragon Ball over and over and was only upset when it was used for evil purposes... though God grew up on Earth and never met any other Namekseijins so he may never have been warned that eventually terrible things will happen even if the DBs are used over and over for "good" reasons.

[NeoKING]

I wish I can see the original Japanese text in the Perfect Files for this. The whole "-from a neighboring galaxy" part is interesting. Here I thought the dragons came from within the Dragon Balls. Of interest to note is that during the actual GT episode where the Evil Dragons are released, Popo says that the dragon(s) / Cigar-Smoking Shenlong had destroyed other galaxies in the past. Or, something to that effect.

I am 99% sure that this is the page that translation is for... though I don't know how accurate it is at all. I don't recall seeing anything about this in Herms' GT Perfect Files translations threads.

As for the Mr. Popo quote:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

He doesn't seem to state that it was that same dragon specifically, though nothing says it wasn't. He never says anything about the dragon(s) being stopped after their rampage so it's possible he/they just went back to wherever he/they came from after destroying the galaxy and awaited the day when he/they could return for another rampage.

Couldn't tell if those were just bootleg subs or Poponese.

And unfortunately, those scans are in Chinese that I can't understand.

[Herms]

I am 99% sure that this is the page that translation is for...

Looks like it. The things in that page line up pretty closely with what's said in the translation (DBs should only be used once a century, but Goku and co. have used them lots in the past 50 years, etc). Except...it says the negative energy will turn into evil dragons who will destroy the galaxy. So that "negative energy will then attract 7 evil Dragons from a neighboring galaxy" is just a wild crazy mistranslation. Unless it says that in some other part of the Perfect Files, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't. Sadly, I left my copies of the Perfect Files back on the mainland along with most of my DB crap, so I can't say for sure.

Also, that page is a scan of the Chinese translation of the PFs, so I'll have to assume it's accurate and that the Japanese original doesn't say the "attract evil dragons from neighboring galaxy" thing. But again, I read the Japanese PFs a bunch back in the day and never saw anything remotely like that "neighboring galaxy" statement, so I feel reasonably safe in saying it's probably a mistranslation. That "Akira Toriyama Super Database" page those translations are on is a super old English fan page by the way, predating Daizenshuu EX.

Couldn't tell if those were just bootleg subs or Poponese.

It's just Poponese. I think those are the Funi subtitles. Or at least, I remember the Funi subtitles saying pretty much the same thing, in that sort of broken English. I actually have my GT DVDs handy and could go and check for sure, but...I'm feeling kind of lazy.

No offence but that's the English dub. In the original Japanese IIRC it just said that people used it to wish for peace and prosperity, until evil people appeared and began to use it for other uses. This started wars and angered the gods, who split the ball into the 7 Dragon Balls.

That whole bit is anime-only as well. There's never any origin given for the dragon balls in the manga until Karin reveals that God made them.

[NeoKING]

Another thing that's interesting is how in the actual episode, Kibitoshin says that Goku and co. have been overusing the DBs for 30 years rather than 50.

That "Akira Toriyama Super Database" page those translations are on is a super old English fan page by the way, predating Daizenshuu EX.

Seems to have been made around the time GT was actually airing. There's a bunch of crazy mistranslations on that site, such as calling the Mega Cannon Sigma the "Energy Cannon 4," and saying that the Shenlong summoned by the Ultimate Dragon Balls is yellow.

[Herms]

Another thing that's interesting is how in the actual episode, Kibitoshin says that Goku and co. have been overusing the DBs for 30 years rather than 50.

It should really be more like 40 years anyway, going by the official timeline. Goku and Bulma meet in Age 749, and GT starts in Age 789 according to PF volume 1, so that's 40 years right on the dot. Then the evil dragon stuff should be at least a year later what with the dragon ball time limit and whatnot, so 41 years or so overall. Really nowhere near 50 years (unless A LOT of extra time passes between the end of the Baby arc and the start of Super 17, without anyone noticeably aging), and way more than 30.

[RandomGuy96]

Doesn't Gotenks refer to himself as a god of destruction at some point?

[Herms]

Doesn't Gotenks refer to himself as a god of destruction at some point?

No, he calls himself a "Grim Reaper of Justice" shortly before Boo absorbs him.

[Saiga]

Doesn't Gotenks refer to himself as a god of destruction at some point?

No, he calls himself a "Grim Reaper of Destruction".

Does that mean he used the term "Shinigami" then? Because that literally means "Death God".

[Herms]

Does that mean he used the term "Shinigami" then? Because that literally means "Death God".

Yeah, he says Seigi no Shinigami, "Grim Reaper of Justice" (I screwed up and typed "destruction" instead of "justice" by mistake the first time around, but fixed it now). So there's "god" in there, but nothing about "destruction".

[CatouttaHell]

Looks like it. The things in that page line up pretty closely with what's said in the translation (DBs should only be used once a century, but Goku and co. have used them lots in the past 50 years, etc). Except...it says the negative energy will turn into evil dragons who will destroy the galaxy. So that "negative energy will then attract 7 evil Dragons from a neighboring galaxy" is just a wild crazy mistranslation. Unless it says that in some other part of the Perfect Files, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't. Sadly, I left my copies of the Perfect Files back on the mainland along with most of my DB crap, so I can't say for sure.

Also, that page is a scan of the Chinese translation of the PFs, so I'll have to assume it's accurate and that the Japanese original doesn't say the "attract evil dragons from neighboring galaxy" thing. But again, I read the Japanese PFs a bunch back in the day and never saw anything remotely like that "neighboring galaxy" statement, so I feel reasonably safe in saying it's probably a mistranslation. That "Akira Toriyama Super Database" page those translations are on is a super old English fan page by the way, predating Daizenshuu EX.

Thank you for the information! I feared that might be the case. The "neighbouring galaxy" translation sounded too good to be true, and it'd be weird for the GT Perfect Files to contradict GT's own main villain origin story this much. Ah well.

That whole bit is anime-only as well. There's never any origin given for the dragon balls in the manga until Karin reveals that God made them.

I know, I just didn't want to say anything since it's a GT thread to begin with. q: