Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by fadeddreams5 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:58 pm

Why is his ethnicity interesting or his social class? How is his social class even important, especially in the context of DB?
Ethnicity, race, and social class are interesting to me because it allows the writers to explore different cultures within the universe. Most DBZ characters grew up in solitude or to rich parents. Here, we have someone with actual culture. Also someone with, apparently, multiple siblings. Not only that, but he knows what it's like to grow up completely poor, which gives him a greater appreciation of the little things in life. You can argue Goku does too, but the difference is Goku had no concept of social class or wealth; he was practically a wild animal. All of this makes Uub unique, imo.
I'll grant to those of you that see a lot of potential that there are a number of directions to go with him, but it seems like so many thought he should be the main character just because what happens at the end of Z, and that GT is terrible in light of that fact because Goku was training his successor. That's a position I don't understand. Why does Goku training someone automatically mean that Goku's spot as the hero of the story is usurped simply because he's training someone to take over? I do wish he had been a little more useful in the fight against Baby and the Evil Dragons.
I would have liked an Uub arc, in a sense. A storyline that centers around the character, his background, his interaction with the other Z-warriors, and his training with Goku. It'd be interesting because through him, it'd be like an outsider POV of the DBZ universe. Kind of like if the reader found themselves within Goku's verse. There could be so much comedy stemming from this, and eventually it could transition to an actual dire situation that forces Uub into the centerline, as well as make new friends--particularly, other characters introduced late into the franchise.

That all said, I would obviously not want him outright replacing Goku and being the permanent star of the show. I can see him working as the star of a spin-off, but not DBZ. lol.
But he was resurrected with the evil gone, this just feels like an uninteresting retread and goes against who the character is, plus the whole, "I was born from evil, does that make me evil?" shtick is overdone and not that interesting to me.
His evil can be reawakened by someone else that knows about his origin. He doesn't necessarily need to question whether he is evil or go into an emo phase, but it allows him to see, first-hand, his true origins. An internal battle like this can result in him acquiring his old powers--the healing, body manipulation, regeneration, and so on. Kid Buu had the greatest assortment of abilities out of EVERY villain ever introduced in this series, and Uub can very well have that as well. It'd be so bizarre to see him use those abilities, but that's what makes it so funny and brilliant, imo. Uub would be freaked out over himself.
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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:44 pm

Ethnicity, race, and social class are interesting to me because it allows the writers to explore different cultures within the universe. Most DBZ characters grew up in solitude or to rich parents. Here, we have someone with actual culture. Also someone with, apparently, multiple siblings. Not only that, but he knows what it's like to grow up completely poor, which gives him a greater appreciation of the little things in life. You can argue Goku does too, but the difference is Goku had no concept of social class or wealth; he was practically a wild animal. All of this makes Uub unique, imo.
That doesn't scream DB to me, and I don't think it's much of a story beyond maybe one or two episodes, especially in a series with a universal scope.
I would have liked an Uub arc, in a sense. A storyline that centers around the character, his background, his interaction with the other Z-warriors, and his training with Goku. It'd be interesting because through him, it'd be like an outsider POV of the DBZ universe. Kind of like if the reader found themselves within Goku's verse. There could be so much comedy stemming from this, and eventually it could transition to an actual dire situation that forces Uub into the centerline, as well as make new friends--particularly, other characters introduced late into the franchise.

That all said, I would obviously not want him outright replacing Goku and being the permanent star of the show. I can see him working as the star of a spin-off, but not DBZ. lol.
Fair enough, but my idea would be to have him help more in the fights against the Evil Dragons and Baby. His plan against Baby doesn't help much, I think it would've shown a clever side to Uub if he somehow helped remove Baby from Vegeta's body. Goku is the hero, but Uub shows intelligence and is a vital part of the battle.
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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by fadeddreams5 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:37 pm

Fair enough, but my idea would be to have him help more in the fights against the Evil Dragons and Baby. His plan against Baby doesn't help much, I think it would've shown a clever side to Uub if he somehow helped remove Baby from Vegeta's body. Goku is the hero, but Uub shows intelligence and is a vital part of the battle.
Oh, I'm referring to EoZ Uub. Fresh off the block character.

By GT, the character lost all his potential and became uninteresting since they decided to time skip.
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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by Ashelia » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:55 pm

Both. I never saw him as super duper interesting and he suffered the same wasted potential as nearly everyone else, it just happened faster. So his usage in GT wasn't disappointing to me as nothing of value was lost since we never knew what the hell we even really had. It was just the typical meh handling I've become so used to in this series.

So I'm indifferent towards him though I do like his mohawk, it makes him cute.

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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by voltlunok » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:30 am

Like Ashelia above me put it. I kinda saw Uub as both. Nothing about him grabbed me at the end of Z, he is kid buu reincarnated without the evil, he is pure...ok! So why should I care? Oh the show is over so they won't tell me. GOT IT! I also think Uub might have been good for his own spin off manga of Dragon Ball but I have to completely disagree with the people who insist he should have been the main character of GT. I personally don't think Uub would have the chops to carry a sequel series to DBZ, I think he would make a great side character with some interesting development but main character is just going to far.

Do I think they could have done more with him in GT? Maybe, again I never really cared for him so I kinda didn't care that he didn't get much, in fact I had to remind myself who he was when I first watched GT...! Overall though...Yeah, wasted potential but also uninteresting.
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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by Rocketman » Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:31 am

He's a nice visual variation from the sea of blond goobers. Especially in GT, where Vegeta, Gohan and Goten all have the same hairstyle.

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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by B » Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:33 am

He doesn't really have much of personality. I decry the use of the term "wasted potential" because he appears in the epilogue. At the time of his conception, he obviously had no potential because it was the ending. I suppose you could call it that in GT, however.

Someone said it best in that other thread about the ending; the most logical step in the ladder to extending Dragon Ball is to flesh out Uub and his role as Goku's successor, but that would never sell in a million years because he's brown and not a Saiyan.
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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by JamesOwnz » Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:54 am

He was only in the manga for... 2 chapters?

I never really watched GT so I can't really comment

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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:33 am

B wrote:He doesn't really have much of personality. I decry the use of the term "wasted potential" because he appears in the epilogue. At the time of his conception, he obviously had no potential because it was the ending. I suppose you could call it that in GT, however.

Someone said it best in that other thread about the ending; the most logical step in the ladder to extending Dragon Ball is to flesh out Uub and his role as Goku's successor, ]but that would never sell in a million years because he's brown and not a Saiyan.

...That is a VERY unfortunate combination of words. VERY VERY VERY unfortunate.

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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by ABED » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:12 am

To those that keep bringing up the race issue, you keep acting like most of the characters are Caucasian.
the most logical step in the ladder to extending Dragon Ball is to flesh out Uub and his role as Goku's successor
Which doesn't require that he become the main character.
By GT, the character lost all his potential and became uninteresting since they decided to time skip.
Why did the time skip make him uninteresting?
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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:56 am

I know. I really know Mr ABED.

I'm not criticizing DB, or even the member who posted that because lets face it, its true. I just cringed at saying that stated so bluntly LOL.

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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by Ashelia » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:03 am

ABED wrote:To those that keep bringing up the race issue, you keep acting like most of the characters are Caucasian.
No but they're no Officer Black or well...Uub. The kid does stick out even in GT's color palette (a palette I liked), whether this was a deterrent to not being chosen as a successor along with various other far more valid reasons we'll never know (do we even really want to know if it was?) but I'm not surprised some are so focused on his skin color, culture, etc.

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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by ABED » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:22 am

Cure Dragon, my statement wasn't pointed at you.
Ashelia wrote:
ABED wrote:To those that keep bringing up the race issue, you keep acting like most of the characters are Caucasian.<br abp="689">
<br abp="690">No but they're no Officer Black or well...Uub. The kid does stick out even in GT's color palette (a palette I liked), whether this was a deterrent to not being chosen as a successor along with various other far more valid reasons we'll never know (do we even really want to know if it was?) but I'm not surprised some are so focused on his skin color, culture, etc.
The more likely scenario is that he's not Goku who was the hero for over 400 episodes and it would be ridiculous to make a brand new character the star of the show. Why does it matter how diverse the show is? Why are you making this about race at all?

And why does anyone on this forum insist on changing the size of their font to something really small?

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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by B » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:23 am

ABED wrote:
the most logical step in the ladder to extending Dragon Ball is to flesh out Uub and his role as Goku's successor
Which doesn't require that he become the main character.
Of course not. But I think if you want to see it handled at all well, it's got to be from Toriyama, who, outside of Neko Majin, does not seem too jazzed about that era of the series. Toei tried it with GT and it was mostly an afterthought. "Oh, yeah, Uub is here." It's really the same problem with Pan; they are manga characters, but most of their (poor)characterization is from Toei.
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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by ABED » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:24 am

B wrote:
ABED wrote:
the most logical step in the ladder to extending Dragon Ball is to flesh out Uub and his role as Goku's successor
Which doesn't require that he become the main character.
Of course not. But I think if you want to see it handled at all well, it's got to be from Toriyama, who, outside of Neko Majin, does not seem too jazzed about that era of the series. Toei tried it with GT and it was mostly an afterthought. "Oh, yeah, Uub is here." It's really the same problem with Pan; they are manga characters, but most of their (poor)characterization is from Toei.
Pan was brattier than I would've preferred, but I think she grew.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by Eire » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:31 am

IMHO you are overthinking the race issue.
I'm not sure if it's a time and place for such a discussion, but at least some people here forget that Toriyama isn't American citizen of multicultural country. So on conscious levels he doesn't share the same prejudices (I can bet that Mr.Popo was meant to be friendly and funny, not offensive) or problems like representation in media. On subconscious... let's put it that way- when you live in homogeneous culture someone with non default physical features isn't your first choice. Not by malice, but when the only foreigners you are interacting with are tourists asking for a way you just don't think about it that much.
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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by ABED » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:35 am

Eire wrote:IMHO you are overthinking the race issue.
I'm not sure if it's a time and place for such a discussion, but at least some people here forget that Toriyama isn't American citizen of multicultural country. So on conscious levels he doesn't share the same prejudices (I can bet that Mr.Popo was meant to be friendly and funny, not offensive) or problems like representation in media. On subconscious... let's put it that way- when you live in homogeneous culture someone with non default physical features isn't your first choice. Not by malice, but when the only foreigners you are interacting with are tourists asking for a way you just don't think about it that much.
I'm not overthinking this, I didn't bring it up. I'm well aware of the things you mentioned, but the people who do keep bringing it up keep making it out to be something malicious, like TOEI didn't make Uub the main character because they're racists.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by Ashelia » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:36 am

ABED wrote:Cure Dragon, my statement wasn't pointed at you.
Ashelia wrote:
ABED wrote:To those that keep bringing up the race issue, you keep acting like most of the characters are Caucasian.<br abp="689">
<br abp="690">No but they're no Officer Black or well...Uub. The kid does stick out even in GT's color palette (a palette I liked), whether this was a deterrent to not being chosen as a successor along with various other far more valid reasons we'll never know (do we even really want to know if it was?) but I'm not surprised some are so focused on his skin color, culture, etc.
The more likely scenario is that he's not Goku who was the hero for over 400 episodes and it would be ridiculous to make a brand new character the star of the show. Why does it matter how diverse the show is? Why are you making this about race at all?
Uhh I didn't. I even put that there were far more valid reason than a racial one that no one has any evidence for, I just stated why for some his race is a focus. He is a different color, is just stating that obvious fact really a bother?
And why does anyone on this forum insist on changing the size of their font to something really small?
Cause I can?

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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by ABED » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:41 am

Fair enough, I should've made it less about you specifically and more about those that keep bringing it up. While his skin color is different, race isn't ever an issue in DB, so I don't see why it should be here.
Cause I can?
It's really annoying, and that answer isn't helpful. Again, this isn't pointed at you specifically, but why people on this forum sometimes do it. It's hard to read, and it's like they are trying to get away with something.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Uub - Wasted Potential or Uninteresting

Post by Ashelia » Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:14 pm

ABED wrote:Fair enough, I should've made it less about you specifically and more about those that keep bringing it up. While his skin color is different, race isn't ever an issue in DB, so I don't see why it should be here.
Thanks for understanding. As for the question it could just be the wonder of it all as Japan isn't diverse the same way the US or any multicultural country is. When a creator adds a different "real" human race some over analyze that choice or over invest in said character way more than Japan. At least thats my experience in other series where when things become "diverse" many start arguing over whether its done right, who it really represents, if its token, pandering, etc and projecting in every direction. I don't know how many debates I've seen over whether the Ishvalans in FMA represent certain non-Anglo Saxon race(s) or all of them but once some fans saw dark skin in an anime/manga they had to investigate.

Dragon Ball isn't a reflection of the real world though, it has no real racial element beyond labels. So just because Uub and I are the same color doesn't mean he represents me or is a signal of how Toriyama/Toei views non-Japanese/light skinned people. Uub with what little we know, just is. But for others since he's this question mark there has to be intent to not being picked beyond "Not Goku/Saiyan" and sadly to them it can be his skin color. I say if this really was a problem he wouldn't exist in the first place or would've been given to a very different role than Goku's protege but none of that has changed.

Even with all this said the focus on Uub can just be as fadeddreams5 said, exploring Uub's differences in culture, class, etc is interesting to them whether it lasts one episode, OVA, whatever.
Others can feel the same without it being based in thinking racial diversity is an issue or that Toei is racist, same as how many want Saiyan culture to be explored or Freeza's race which doesn't even have a name lol.
Cause I can?
It's really annoying, and that answer isn't helpful. Again, this isn't pointed at you specifically, but why people on this forum sometimes do it. It's hard to read, and it's like they are trying to get away with something.
Bingo. Its the more extreme equivalent of strike-through when obviously you just backspace if you don't actually mean to type what you did.

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