Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:I'm not going to complain for whatever path they choose, as I like base and Super Saiyan. But Freeza already fought a Super Saiyan though. Twice. From two different characters in this timeline. Instead of fighting a "Super Saiyan", just let him fight a "super" Saiyan...
But he also fought 5 black haired Saiyans already . Freeza has done it all. With 3 that are already unnaturally strong Saiyans
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:I'm not going to complain for whatever path they choose, as I like base and Super Saiyan. But Freeza already fought a Super Saiyan though. Twice. From two different characters in this timeline. Instead of fighting a "Super Saiyan", just let him fight a "super" Saiyan...
But he also fought 5 black haired Saiyans already . Freeza has done it all. With 3 that are already unnaturally strong Saiyans
Also if Freeza is gonna win, I want to see him beat Super Saiyan Goku/Vegeta. It's not as satisfying to me unless Freeza conquers his worst fear that pretty much kick started his paranoia. Even when Trunks came he was terrified of him turning Super Saiyan. It's just not right to have that glossed over and have them beaten in base. I'd like to have Freeza be giddy about conquering the Super Saiyan nightmare.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Is the story behind Frieza's revival and how he is so much stronger been revealed?
I'm sure this has already been mentioned, but is it possible that this Frieza is not going to be the same Frieza that Goku defeated, but Frieza from some other universe? There are 12 Universes, so what if Frieza managed to get his immortality in one of those universes and then someone who trains the God of Destruction in that Universe, saw Frieza as the perfect God of Destruction, especially because of his immorality and decided to train him. Frieza was born incredibly strong and never needed to train, so with training it's only natural that he could surpass SSJ3 Goku and maybe wven SSJG Goku, Beerus, Whis and his own teacher from that Universe.
So, when he becomes stronger then his teacher, he decided that he want's to rule over all 12 Universes, he kills his teacher and either uses the Dragon Balls from his Universe to go to another Universe with his henchmen, or if he doesn't have Dragon Balls in his Universe he somehow finds a way to contact his henchmen from another Universe to wish him in that Universe.
If it is the same Frieza that Goku defeated, then how did he become so strong? I can't think of any way, he couldn't have trained in hell since he became a spirit after he died (even though he had a body in hell in the anime, that's only filler).
Tunjevina wrote:I'm sure this has already been mentioned, but is it possible that this Freeza is not going to be the same Freeza that Goku defeated, but Freeza from some other universe? There are 12 Universes, so what if Freeza managed to get his immortality in one of those universes and then someone who trains the God of Destruction in that Universe, saw Freeza as the perfect God of Destruction, especially because of his immorality and decided to train him. Freeza was born incredibly strong and never needed to train, so with training it's only natural that he could surpass SSJ3 Goku and maybe wven SSJG Goku, Beerus, Whis and his own teacher from that Universe.
So, when he becomes stronger then his teacher, he decided that he want's to rule over all 12 Universes, he kills his teacher and either uses the Dragon Balls from his Universe to go to another Universe with his henchmen, or if he doesn't have Dragon Balls in his Universe he somehow finds a way to contact his henchmen from another Universe to wish him in that Universe.
The 12 Universes don't work like that. All Dragon Ball material thus far takes places in Universe #7 as implied in the Chozenshu; presumably as alternate timelines or whatever. The other 11 universes should not have a Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Freeza or Beerus at all.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
The 12 Universes don't work like that. All Dragon Ball material thus far takes places in Universe #7 as implied in the Chozenshu; presumably as alternate timelines or whatever. The other 11 universes should not have a Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Freeza or Beerus at all.
At the end of the day it's all speculation until "implied" becomes confirmed.
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:The 12 Universes don't work like that. All Dragon Ball material thus far takes places in Universe #7 as implied in the Chozenshu; presumably as alternate timelines or whatever. The other 11 universes should not have a Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Freeza or Beerus at all.
So both Future Trunks and Cell are from Universe #7, but from a different timeline? I assumed that each of them are from another Universe even before other Universes were mentioned
Hellspawn28 wrote:It been stated that Freeza got stronger by training.
That's cool, I always wandered how strong Frieza would be if he trained as much as Goku or Vegeta. I guess I'll find the answer soon.
Hellspawn28 wrote:It been stated that Freeza got stronger by training.
I swear that better not be the whole reason. I really hope there's more to it than that. Otherwise I guess Boo, Oob, Cell, The Cyborgs, etc would be absolute monsters if they trained. Though the other factor is how long Freeza trained...better not be something to ludicrously short.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Tunjevina wrote:So both Future Trunks and Cell are from Universe #7, but from a different timeline? I assumed that each of them are from another Universe even before other Universes were mentioned
Yes, that seems to be what they are going for with the idea of everything DB happens in Universe #7 (until they specifically visit another universe anyway). The other 11 Universes seem to be intended as full alternates that are completely different from the ground up. Meaning there probably isn't a Goku, maybe no Saiyans, no Earth, etc. Heck, it may not even be the same type of cosmos orb governed by Kaioshin. It could be a pyramid that contains a completely new setting, a cube that contains the world of One Piece, or a dodecahedron that contains Naruto for all we know. We just have zero information on them outside of the fact that we know they exist. If they meant these other universes as the timelines Trunks and Cell came from though, I think they would have made that connection already since those have transpired. It wouldn't exactly be a jaw dropping surprise to introduce concepts we already knew about.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)
I wonder if there's a Supreme Kai of the Multiverse. A, dare I say, One-Above-All. >.>
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
fadeddreams5 wrote:I wonder if there's a Supreme Kai of the Multiverse. A, dare I say, One-Above-All. >.>
Although it's off-topic I have a feeling Saiyans exist in other of these universes. Though speculation I wouldn't mind finding out more about the universes in this film perhaps this Freeza becomes or is a God of destruction elsewhere.
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
The 12 Universes don't work like that. All Dragon Ball material thus far takes places in Universe #7 as implied in the Chozenshu; presumably as alternate timelines or whatever. The other 11 universes should not have a Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Freeza or Beerus at all.
At the end of the day it's all speculation until "implied" becomes confirmed.
That's very true, but at the same time, so far nothing we've been told about the 12 universes in BoG itself or any secondary source indicates that they'd contain stuff like an alternate Freeza who managed to gain immortality on Namek. All the info on them really underlines the theme of them being a source for new, unknown challenges, rather than relatively minor variations on stuff we've already seen. And everything that's come out about the new movie so far makes it sound like this is the same Freeza that Goku and co. previously fought (but brought back to life and stronger than before), rather than an alternate universe version of him. It's always possible for something new to come out of left field, especially with Toriyama writing, but if we're making predictions based on the information currently available, "super Freeza from another universe" doesn't seem very likely.
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
The 12 Universes don't work like that. All Dragon Ball material thus far takes places in Universe #7 as implied in the Chozenshu; presumably as alternate timelines or whatever. The other 11 universes should not have a Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Freeza or Beerus at all.
At the end of the day it's all speculation until "implied" becomes confirmed.
That's very true, but at the same time, so far nothing we've been told about the 12 universes in BoG itself or any secondary source indicates that they'd contain stuff like an alternate Freeza who managed to gain immortality on Namek. All the info on them really underlines the theme of them being a source for new, unknown challenges, rather than relatively minor variations on stuff we've already seen. And everything that's come out about the new movie so far makes it sound like this is the same Freeza that Goku and co. previously fought (but brought back to life and stronger than before), rather than an alternate universe version of him. It's always possible for something new to come out of left field, especially with Toriyama writing, but if we're making predictions based on the information currently available, "super Freeza from another universe" doesn't seem very likely.
That's true with the information given this far. And I would doubt that they would at the end of this film appoint our frieza as a god of destruction as the ending of the movie as a finale or something.
fadeddreams5 wrote:I wonder if there's a Supreme Kai of the Multiverse. A, dare I say, One-Above-All. >.>
There probably is...though knowing how these things seem to work out every time, there's probably one for each of the cardinal directions of the Multiverse (probably getting three of the twelve universes each), a Grand Kai for them, a set of Supreme Kais for him, and finally a 'Dai Kaio' type figure to go above them. And then the god hierarchy literally implodes upon itself.
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Careless Saiyajin wrote:We will never get another update forever lol but seriously are we that far behind compared to battle of gods schedule and can they even be compared.
Battle of Gods came out around two and a half weeks earlier than when this one's due out. The way we've received news for this one so far is very similar to the order in which we received BOG stuff, particularly earlier on. Things look like they're starting to switch up a bit now, but we should see a new trailer next month.
Careless Saiyajin wrote:We will never get another update forever lol but seriously are we that far behind compared to battle of gods schedule and can they even be compared.
Battle of Gods came out around two and a half weeks earlier than when this one's due out. The way we've received news for this one so far is very similar to the order in which we received BOG stuff, particularly earlier on. Things look like they're starting to switch up a bit now, but we should see a new trailer next month.
Thats well put, I hope we see that theoretically possible trailer next month.
. Freeza has done it all. With 3 that are already unnaturally strong Saiyans
