Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[sintzu]

Its a problem because it makes Freeza look incredibly lazy and stupid for not training for a month before going to Earth after his defeat, especially if he knew that he could improve tremendously by training.

And it also makes his fear of SSJ seem more like a fear of having to train more than anything else.

He was stronger then he was on Namek so he probably thought it would have been enough to deal with Goku.

How would he know how strong a Ssj is if he didn't fight one before ? for all he knew a Ssj could be as strong as Beerus or Buu.

[rereboy]

He was stronger then he was on Namek so he probably thought it would have been enough to deal with Goku.

How would he know how strong a Ssj is if he didn't fight one before ? for all he knew a Ssj could be as strong as Beerus or Buu.

He knew that he could improve tremendously if he trained, even for just a little while, and he still chose to risk it all instead of training for a month or so, even though he was obviously not that much stronger. And thus he got killed. Hence: lazy and stupid.

He was afraid of the SSJ and he knew that he would improve tremendously if he trained, even for just a while, but he still chose to never train. If he had taken that simple precaution he would have been much better prepared for any possible SSJ. In fact, if he improves this much in 4 months, imagine if he actually trained for years. He wouldn't even have to worry about Beerus. As someone who is determined to be the strongest in the universe, his refusal to train, even though that would prepare him much more to any rival to that title, once again just makes him look lazy and stupid.

[shinmaru]

So we should just accept anything new because its "New DB". Yeah I hate that claim sorry. Just because it's new doesn't make it good.

You have no choice. And I didn't say new is good. Anyway Movie F brought many good things like new fresh outfits and more, Toriyama work is almost unpredictable just wait and get surprised

[sintzu]

His refusal to train, even though that would prepare him much more to any rival to that title, once again just makes him look lazy and stupid.

Which cost him his life and him being lazy and only training for 4 months will cost him again but I don't see what's bad about it cause he's a villain and 9 times out of 10 villains tend to be stupid.

If this is a reason to say the movie is bad then why don't you say the Cell arc is bad because Cell could have trained after surviving blowing himself up but instead went back only to get killed.

Toriyama work is almost unpredictable just wait and get surprised

No matter how good it is they'll still say it's not just because it's new.

I'm 100% sure that if the new stories we're getting were in the original run of the manga they wouldn't be complaining.

[rereboy]

His refusal to train, even though that would prepare him much more to any rival to that title, once again just makes him look lazy and stupid.

Which cost him his life and him being lazy and only training for 4 months will cost him again but I don't see what's bad about it cause he's a villain and 9 times out of 10 villains tend to be stupid.

If this is a reason to say the movie is bad then why don't you say the Cell arc is bad because Cell could have trained after surviving blowing himself up but instead went back only to get killed.

Because Cell, as a being with saiyan cells, wants to be challenged and thus purposely lets his enemies become stronger to face him. True, it can be considered stupid, but its perfectly understandable for his character.

Freeza on the other hand just wants nobody to ever challenge him and never to come close to him. That's why he goes out of his way to destroy the saiyan race when he decides they pose a risk and why he even summons his elite force to Namek when he encounters resistance. He is portrayed as a cold dictator who is careful and doesn't want to leave things to chance. And yet, he knows that he could become tremendously more powerful, even with just a little bit of training, which would benefit his interests greatly and decrease tremendously the likelihood of anyone ever being able to oppose him, and he just refuses? Even after almost being killed? And he prefers to risk his life again than train? Nah, I don't like it. I can understand his sense of pride and of being insulted overwriting his intelligence in some situations and in the heat of the moment, like when he attacked Goku when he was leaving, but not to this degree.

Like I said, it would be different if he (and his father) didn't know that he could benefit that much from training. That the very notion was alien and insulting to them and that Freeza had no idea that he could improve that much, only to discover that fact in this movie with the help of others. With this, Freeza could still be considered lazy and stupid but, like Cell, it would be understandable.

[sintzu]

And yet, he knows that he could become tremendously more powerful, even with just a little bit of training, which would benefit his interests greatly and decrease tremendously the likelihood of anyone ever being able to oppose him, and he just refuses?

Even after almost being killed? And he prefers to risk his life again than train?

Why train when he's going to get immortality ?

He was stronger then he was on Namek so there was no need to train.

[DBZAOTA482]

If this is a reason to say the movie is bad then why don't you say the Cell arc is bad because Cell could have trained after surviving blowing himself up but instead went back only to get killed.

Cell wasn't far off in power from SSJ2 Gohan w/o rage.

[sintzu]

If this is a reason to say the movie is bad then why don't you say the Cell arc is bad because Cell could have trained after surviving blowing himself up but instead went back only to get killed.

Cell wasn't far off in power from SSJ2 Gohan w/o rage.

But why not train to get even stronger ? if they're going to use this type of logic against the new movie then why not use it here ?

[rereboy]

And yet, he knows that he could become tremendously more powerful, even with just a little bit of training, which would benefit his interests greatly and decrease tremendously the likelihood of anyone ever being able to oppose him, and he just refuses?

Even after almost being killed? And he prefers to risk his life again than train?

Why train when he's going to get immortality ?

He was stronger then he was on Namek so there was no need to train.

And what he was doing during all the years before learning about the Dragon Balls? There's a gap of around 20 years between him destroying planet Vegeta and him being defeated. If he had trained even for just a few years out of those as a precaution, or even a few months, he would be much better prepared for anything that could threaten him. And during that time there was probably nothing more beneficial for his interests than doing that. But he just didn't.

Like I said, its one thing if he didn't know that he would benefit that much from training due to him not ever doing hard training since the whole notion is something alien and insulting for him and his family who were always that naturally strong and never experienced a need to get stronger, just a need to better control their already huge power. Another is him knowing just how much he would benefit from it.

If this is a reason to say the movie is bad then why don't you say the Cell arc is bad because Cell could have trained after surviving blowing himself up but instead went back only to get killed.

Cell wasn't far off in power from SSJ2 Gohan w/o rage.

But why not train to get even stronger ? if they're going to use this type of logic against the new movie then why not use it here ?

Because Cell appreciates more being entertained and having a better challenge than just killing his opponents.

He's like a saiyan. If Cell had no immediate opponents, his nature would compel him to surpass himself and he would train. But with the prospect of opponents who happen to not quite measure up, Cell doesn't resist the chance to make things more interesting for himself and he even lets them become stronger.

[DBZAOTA482]

If this is a reason to say the movie is bad then why don't you say the Cell arc is bad because Cell could have trained after surviving blowing himself up but instead went back only to get killed.

Cell wasn't far off in power from SSJ2 Gohan w/o rage.

But why not train to get even stronger ? if they're going to use this type of logic against the new movie then why not use it here ?

Cell's sanity was slipping so he wanted revenge now!

...And he wasn't a closet coward like Freeza.

[Tunjevina]

And what he was doing during all the years before learning about the Dragon Balls? There's a gap of around 20 years between him destroying planet Vegeta and him being defeated. If he had trained even for just a few years out of those as a precaution, or even a few months, he would be much better prepared for anything that could threaten him. And during that time there was probably nothing more beneficial for his interests than doing that. But he just didn't..

To train for what?!
He destroyed planet Vegeta and with it the only realistic threat he could face in his life. The only two beings that could kill him, Majin Buu & Beerus weren't a threat for Freeza. It's been thousands of years since Buu last appeared and of course Freeza wouldn't have a motivation to train for a monster that probably won't appear in his lifespan.
As for Beerus, well he didn't say he can become stronger then him, he said he could became even stronger then Goku that defeated Buu.So maybe he DOES discover something about him in this movie that he didn't know, something that will push him even beyond Beerus's power.
Or maybe he just though that it's ridiculous to train for Beerus when he sleeps for 50 years, awakens to destroy a planet or two and then he goes back to slumber. So the chances that Freeza will be facing Beerus in his life span are just slightly higher then for facing Boo.

And as for not training after Namek..Well there are two logical explanations:
1. Freeza's 100% on Namek matched SSJ Goku, he lost because he started to lose his power. When he returned as Mecha Freeza, he was stronger then his 100%, which would mean that he was stronger then Goku on Namek, and he even brought his father with him. He was eager for revenge and he thought it would be more then enough to defeat Goku and destroy the planet.
2. Simple, he couldn't train with all of the robotic parts on him.

[Drayenko]

And 3. He can't get stronger by training. Yay!

[rereboy]

To train for what?!

For any threat that he might face in the future...? He's worried enough about possible threats to destroy an entire planet of a loyal and useful race of soldiers because they were getting stronger, but not to train for a few months as a precaution for the future...?

Furthermore, he knew that there were beings stronger than him out there that could kill him if some day they felt like it and yet, despite his concern with possible threats, he still doesn't train, not even for a little while?

Yeah, lazy and stupid.

As for your explanations for not training after Namek, they are just conjecture, not to mention that Toriyama has stated that even the androids can get stronger by training.

[Doctor.]

Back to this again?

Why are people still arguing about this when we don't know how or when Freeza knew about this. He could have learned about it in Hell. It's also possible that he had some kind of power sealed away that returned when he died.

[sintzu]

With the movie opening in a month (March 30th) When do you all think we'll get to see Freeza's new form and Vegeta's Ssjg ?

[Ajay]

With the movie opening in a month (March 30th) When do you all think we'll get to see Freeza's new form and Vegeta's Ssjg ?

New form info on the main page - http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/02/22/fr ... j-2015-15/

[Bullza]

Regardless of any excuses being made to justify Frieza never training it is still a very lazy idea on Toriyama's part and one that could be disappointing if there wasn't any more to it.

He created new forms, he knows countless techniques, he's as good at hand to hand combat as Goku and perfect tly adept to fighting in the air yet has never trained a day in his life. It's just stupid and something that was never mentioned or implied before.

[Tunjevina]

To train for what?!

For any threat that he might face in the future...? He's worried enough about possible threats to destroy an entire planet of a loyal and useful race of soldiers because they were getting stronger, but not to train for a few months as a precaution for the future...?

Furthermore, he knew that there were beings stronger than him out there that could kill him if some day they felt like it and yet, despite his concern with possible threats, he still doesn't train, not even for a little while?

Yeah, lazy and stupid.

The same can be said for Gohan after Cell Arc, he could have trained for some future threat, but he had more important things in his life, and so did Freeza. Instead of wasting his time on training for a threat that will probably never appear, he...well I don't know what the fuck did he do, but he certainly doesn't find joy in training.
Yeah it's lazy, but it's not stupid, at least for Freeza. For him it's probably much more ridiculous to spent his life in training and to die one day of old age without having a serious threat in his life.

As for your explanations for not training after Namek, they are just conjecture, not to mention that Toriyama has stated that even the androids can get stronger by training.

Well yeah, those are just theoretical explanations. We have insufficient data on why Freeza didn't train so all we can do is theorize, and the theory that sounds logical and fits into character's personality is good enough for me, better that then just to call it stupid and bullshit, imo.

[sintzu]

With the movie opening in a month (March 30th) When do you all think we'll get to see Freeza's new form and Vegeta's Ssjg ?

New form info on the main page - http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/02/22/fr ... j-2015-15/

I forgot about that thanks.

Hopefully we'll get Vegeta's afterwords.

[mAcChaos]

Regardless of any excuses being made to justify Freeza never training it is still a very lazy idea on Toriyama's part and one that could be disappointing if there wasn't any more to it.

He created new forms, he knows countless techniques, he's as good at hand to hand combat as Goku and perfect tly adept to fighting in the air yet has never trained a day in his life. It's just stupid and something that was never mentioned or implied before.

For all we know, all of that is somehow instinctual for Freeza.

Look at Cell. Having the genetics of a fighter IRL doesn't mean you magically know their techniques or know how to fight, but in DBZ it does.