The strongest earthling

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lord turbo
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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by lord turbo » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:01 am

In Brightest Day wrote:I'm aware of Tenshinhan coming to Gohan and Dende's aid, but did he have a dialogue with Buuhan? I only remember Buu insulting him in the anime.

Edit: Grammar.
After Buu knocked him out he told Goku he just one-shotted Tenshinhan and he was a legenedary warrior, what hope do you have? Something along those lines. All Kuririn did in the buu arc was get turned into a chocolate Hershey's bar and eaten if I recall correctly.

Edit: Didn't see someone posted the line, but yeah, there it goes.

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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by In Brightest Day » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:33 am

Krillin only attacked Super Buu in the anime. We never actually saw how that all happened in the manga.

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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by lord turbo » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:35 am

In Brightest Day wrote:Krillin only attacked Super Buu in the anime. We never actually saw how that all happened in the manga.
I never said anything about the anime if that was in response to me.

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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by macho_man » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:04 am


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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:06 am

"... Krillin wins before battling his final opponent, Tien. Krillin wins the match and is told that he is the strongest earthling. Krillin then asks if Tien is even an earthling at all."
Neat. Then, even Krillin agrees that is hard to define Tenshinhan's race. :lol:

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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by Plague-Memories » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:32 pm

I think I'll stick with my head canon of Tenshinhan being superior, as it just seems like Toriyama has lost touch with his own franchise :lol:

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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by Saiga » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:56 pm

Plague-Memories wrote:I think I'll stick with my head canon of Tenshinhan being superior, as it just seems like Toriyama has lost touch with his own franchise :lol:
Even though the shit about Kuririn being stronger also came out while Toriyama was actually writing the manga?
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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by ZazamPow » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:27 pm

Ten da bes
Kamiccolo9 wrote:I swear, the Gohan fanboys won't be happy unless he just bends over and farts all of Freeza's men into the sun.
fadeddreams5 wrote: Honestly, this would only make me slightly satisfied. To make me happy, he'd also have to grab Freeza by the tail, drag him to the nearest toilet, and give him swirlies until he submits and calls him "daddy."

Gohan deserves it.

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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by Presto88 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:52 am

Saiga wrote:
Plague-Memories wrote:I think I'll stick with my head canon of Tenshinhan being superior, as it just seems like Toriyama has lost touch with his own franchise :lol:
Even though the shit about Kuririn being stronger also came out while Toriyama was actually writing the manga?
Why not? The Buu saga is riddled with inconsistency, and subsequently has created numerous points of contention that to this day (20 years after the series ended) are being debated. It is clear that by this point he was losing touch with his own continuity/lore, and now with the new movies I think its plain to see that he really doesn't care all that much. So with that in mind how seriously are we meant to take completely contradictory statements if they disregard previously established character/story development if the creator himself has proven time and again he doesn't take it all too seriously?

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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by FoolsGil » Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:50 am

Well let's be honest here: Who here takes what Toriyama says for face value? Dragonball Minus, Gero being the true leader of the RR? Any other things he has said, or been inconsistent with? The man forgets things like Vegetto, so can really anyone say "Oh yeah, THIS TIME I agree with Toriyama completely." and pretend the other stuff that Toriyama said is incorrect?

Next: The one time Yamcha told Marron "Krillin is the strongest Earthling." Has it occurred to anyone Yamcha is trying to make Krillin's daughter feel better?

And here's the big kicker: Krillin did not have such an obscene gap over Tenshinhan that he can be labled the strongest there is forevermore: Guru's potential unlock brought him close to Vegeta's level when he was on Earth the first time. I'll be generous and say that Krillin's potential unlock brought him up to 18,000. From being lower than 4000 that's quite a jump. But Tenshinhan was no slouch either: He trained with King Kai, and as they say, training with him is far better than any Earth Masters. So though he didn't learn Kaioken, I will be generous, and say his power level was equal to Son Goku when he first came back from the dead, so full power, 8000-9001. So at the worst, a mere 10,000 Pl gap. You're telling me that Tenshinhan could never close that gap? With the type of training he does? Even if the gap could not be closed in the Android saga, Krillin became a family man over the next seven years, while Tenshinhan kept training.

Guys Guys Guys Guys Guys. A 10,000 gap is chicken shit in the grand scheme. Based on lifestyle at least in that seven year gap, Tenshinhan would have surpassed Krillin.

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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:38 am

FoolsGil wrote:Well let's be honest here: Who here takes what Toriyama says for face value? Dragonball Minus, Gero being the true leader of the RR? Any other things he has said, or been inconsistent with? The man forgets things like Vegetto, so can really anyone say "Oh yeah, THIS TIME I agree with Toriyama completely." and pretend the other stuff that Toriyama said is incorrect?
Even if you want to blatantly disregard his word, which isn't inconsistent or contradictory, it's stated in the actual manga, there's no way of getting around that.
Next: The one time Yamcha told Marron "Krillin is the strongest Earthling." Has it occurred to anyone Yamcha is trying to make Krillin's daughter feel better?
You need to reread that part of the manga and actually pay attention to how Yamcha is making his statement. It's clear as day his statement was split into two parts, the one to Maron and the one to himself.
And here's the big kicker: Krillin did not have such an obscene gap over Tenshinhan that he can be labled the strongest there is forevermore: Guru's potential unlock brought him close to Vegeta's level when he was on Earth the first time. I'll be generous and say that Krillin's potential unlock brought him up to 18,000. From being lower than 4000 that's quite a jump. But Tenshinhan was no slouch either: He trained with King Kai, and as they say, training with him is far better than any Earth Masters. So though he didn't learn Kaioken, I will be generous, and say his power level was equal to Son Goku when he first came back from the dead, so full power, 8000-9001. So at the worst, a mere 10,000 Pl gap. You're telling me that Tenshinhan could never close that gap? With the type of training he does? Even if the gap could not be closed in the Android saga, Krillin became a family man over the next seven years, while Tenshinhan kept training.
Power levels are completely plot based. You can't just say "Tenshinhan has to be at 10,000 here because "-insert reason here-". Krillin's power kept skyrocketing on Namek to the point where even Vegeta would compliment it. Is Vegeta one to patronize people? Nothing indicates Tenshinhan ever closed the gap and nothing they do after that is comparable, at all. All we have is numerous sources saying Krillin is stronger. So I don't see how there's any argument to this discussion at all.

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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:50 am

FoolsGil wrote:Well let's be honest here: Who here takes what Toriyama says for face value? Dragonball Minus, Gero being the true leader of the RR? Any other things he has said, or been inconsistent with? The man forgets things like Vegetto, so can really anyone say "Oh yeah, THIS TIME I agree with Toriyama completely." and pretend the other stuff that Toriyama said is incorrect?
In this day and age, I take anything Toriyama-sensei says with a grain of salt since he's been out of touch with the series for over a decade (Dragon Ball was sadly little more than business for him) but what he's said back then is most certainly valid.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by FoolsGil » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:50 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Power levels are completely plot based. You can't just say "Tenshinhan has to be at 10,000 here because "-insert reason here-". Krillin's power kept skyrocketing on Namek to the point where even Vegeta would compliment it. Is Vegeta one to patronize people? Nothing indicates Tenshinhan ever closed the gap and nothing they do after that is comparable, at all. All we have is numerous sources saying Krillin is stronger. So I don't see how there's any argument to this discussion at all.

You cannot come to a 'strongest earthling' debate and say pls are bull. That is the deciding factor to this whole conversation. You even talk about Krillin's power skyrocketing. And so what if Krillin got a thumbs up from Vegeta? It's Vegeta. And your numerous sources are Toriyama and characters created by Toriyama, like I mentioned, he's not the best gauge for understanding the series.
DBZAOTA482 wrote:In this day and age, I take anything Toriyama-sensei says with a grain of salt since he's been out of touch with the series for over a decade (Dragon Ball was sadly little more than business for him) but what he's said back then is most certainly valid.
Okay, but we do know Tenshinhan, and we know Krillin. Facing facts, the potential unlock, while impressive, was not a huge gap in power compared to King Kai's training, and then Krillin got married and stopped training. Even Gohan's power dropped substantially from a lack of training. And Tenshinhan kept on training. You can follow what Toriyama says, but logically Tenshinhan would have become the strongest by sheer tenacity.
Last edited by FoolsGil on Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:57 pm

FoolsGil wrote:You cannot come to a 'strongest earthling' debate and say pls are bull. That is the deciding factor to this whole conversation.
I'm sorry, I should've explained that better.
But Tenshinhan was no slouch either: He trained with King Kai, and as they say, training with him is far better than any Earth Masters. So though he didn't learn Kaioken, I will be generous, and say his power level was equal to Son Goku when he first came back from the dead, so full power, 8000-9001. So at the worst, a mere 10,000 Pl gap. You're telling me that Tenshinhan could never close that gap? With the type of training he does?
Everything about him being at 8000-9001 or whatever the gap is, is completely speculative. We don't know where he was, and we don't know where Krillin was. All we know is going by the last recorded BPs, Krillin (75,000) > Tenshinhan (~1,800 or so)? And then they both trained during the 3 year gap. We have characters confirm Krillin is still the strongest even in the Buu arc.
And so what if Krillin got a thumbs up from Vegeta? It's Vegeta.
Exactly, it is Vegeta. Is Vegeta one to make Krillin feel better about himself? Why would Vegeta compliment his power if it was really low? To spare Krillin's feelings? If Vegeta of all people compliments his power, I see no reason to not take it seriously.
And your numerous sources are Toriyama and characters created by Toriyama, like I mentioned, he's not the best gauge for understanding the series.
It's in the actual manga.

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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by FoolsGil » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:15 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote: Everything about him being at 8000-9001 or whatever the gap is, is completely speculative. We don't know where he was, and we don't know where Krillin was. All we know is going by the last recorded BPs, Krillin (75,000) > Tenshinhan (~1,800 or so)? And then they both trained during the 3 year gap. We have characters confirm Krillin is still the strongest even in the Buu arc.
Source or it didn't happen. Krillin would not have been 75,000 on Namek. Recoome was around 40,000. And Tenshinhan would not have stayed 1,800 after training with King Kai. It may be speculation, but we do know this:

1) Goku trained under King with a power less than 1000, walked out between 8000-10,000. That's a fact.

2) Vegeta had a power level of 18,000 on Earth. That's a fact.

3. Krillin's potential unlock shot him up. Speculation perhaps, but consensus would agree that at max, he would be slightly stronger than Vegeta was on Earth, but more than likely weaker than Vegeta on Earth, so we could say 10,000-20,000.

If Tenshinhan was between 1200 and 1800 on Earth, then went to train with King Kai, what would be his power level when he was brought back to life. Looking at Goku's gain, Tenshinhan would have to have been equal or less than to Goku. At the very least, could kill Nappa. So speculation perhaps, but leaving King Kai's planet, let's say his power level went up to 6,000. Taking Krillin's max power, and Tenshinhan's likeliest lowest power gain, would leave them at a 14,000 gap between them. Then 3 years pass as they train. Then seven years pass and only Tenshinhan is still training. You can even give them a 20,000 pl gap, after seven years of Krillin being a family man, how wouldn't Tenshinhan have caught up?
It's in the actual manga.
Written by Toriyama

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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by Zephyr » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:22 pm

FoolsGil wrote:
It's in the actual manga.
Written by Toriyama
What's the point of extrapolating things from Toriyama's manga if you find him to be wholly suspect as an authority on anything?

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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by FoolsGil » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:35 pm

Zephyr wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:
It's in the actual manga.
Written by Toriyama
What's the point of extrapolating things from Toriyama's manga if you find him to be wholly suspect as an authority on anything?
Look, I'm not one for calling out headcanons, but I am a stickler for rules in-universe:

1) If you slouch, you lose power.

2) King Kai's training will power you substantially.

3) Krillin didn't really unlock too much power.

4) Tenshinhan never stops training

Based on these four things, that Toriyama himself in his own series stated, mentioned, explained, or shown, The gap between Tenshinhan and Krillin is not that vast, (compared to Tenshinhan and Piccolo, or Tenshinhan and any Saiyan,) and Krillin slouched in his seven years.

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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:45 pm

FoolsGil wrote:If Tenshinhan was between 1200 and 1800 on Earth, then went to train with King Kai, what would be his power level when he was brought back to life. Looking at Goku's gain, Tenshinhan would have to have been equal or less than to Goku. At the very least, could kill Nappa.
Tenshinhan isn't Goku. His gains are ambiguous and completely plot related, not automatically the same as Goku's.
how wouldn't Tenshinhan have caught up?
Because that's what Toriyama wrote in the manga.
Written by Toriyama
It's one thing to ignore new recent statements, which is reasonable due to his lack of knowledge, but if you really wanna ignore a statement in the manga, and say Toriyama doesn't know what he's talking about when he's writing the manga, that's baffling.

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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by FoolsGil » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:47 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote: It's one thing to ignore new recent statements, which is reasonable due to his lack of knowledge, but if you really wanna ignore a statement in the manga, and say Toriyama doesn't know what he's talking about when he's writing the manga, that's baffling.
:lolno:

He forgot jack in the manga too while he was writing it, and was inconsistent in the manga too. How is ignoring what he said in the past, worst than ignoring what he says now? I'm using information he brought up in his own manga, to prove he was wrong!

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Re: The strongest earthling

Post by Kaboom » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:49 pm

When you take away all of the stuff plainly saying Kuririn's the strongest, there remains no basis at all for comparing Kuririn's end result power level from the Grand Elder's boost against whatever Tenshinhan ended up with from training at Kaio's. There's likewise no basis for judging how large the gap between them was, or how much good training did for Tenshinhan in those seven years. It's all just speculation. It can't even be called "conjecture" because that would require at least partial information to work from, when there would be NOTHING.

But like it or not there is information to work from, and it all says that at some point, Kuririn surpassed Tenshinhan, claimed the "strongest Earthling" title, and that ranking never changed. There is nothing to the contrary. There is no "debate" to be had about the "Kuririn Vs Ten" thing, because a "debate" would actually require both sides to have solid evidence for their argument. But no such evidence exists for arguing that Tenshinhan is stronger. At all. There's NOTHING.

I've witnessed dozens of these so-called "debates," and you know what they always boil down to?

For Kuririn: "We have Point A, Point B, Point C, Point D, and Point E, which all together clearly indicate that Kuririn is the strongest Earthling, and thus stronger than Tenshinhan."
For Ten: "I choose to ignore and/or attempt to debase those points, and make stuff up instead."

It's always the same, but nothing changes.

Everything with an opinion to give on the topic says that Kuririn is the strongest Earthling, and nothing exists to contradict it. I don't know how much more plainly I can say it.
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