Goten and Trunks power discussion?

[ZazamPow]

Alright, I'm convinced. Goten and Trunks were FPSSJ and somewhere between the Androids and Cell, closer to Cell's side.

That said, I still believe Super Buu taking Piccolo's form indicates Piccolo is superior to the kids, even if only a little. But that just means Piccolo did some training during the 7 year timeskip.

[Hitiro]

Alright, I'm convinced. Goten and Trunks were FPSSJ and somewhere between the Androids and Cell, closer to Cell's side.

That said, I still believe Super Buu taking Piccolo's form indicates Piccolo is superior to the kids, even if only a little. But that just means Piccolo did some training during the 7 year timeskip.

Well yeah. Piccolo > Base Saiyan's so clearly Piccolo is going to come out strong with two Saiyan children being the other absorptions. Had Goten or Trunks been SSJ's it probably would have been a different story.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Nothing in the manga really implies them to be weak, only strong:

-Piccolo is freaked out by how strong the boys are and visibly shaken. And he had already saw them as Super Saiyans at the Budokai. (Although reactions aren't always the best indicators)

-Piccolo says that the kids are Earth's last hope, not him, even though they're a slim hope. He says this prior to knowing about fusion.

-Trunks took a reflex punch to the face from Vegeta without serious injury. He also managed to land a hit on Vegeta.

-Gohan's worried about being left in the dust by two kids who play fight.

-Goten gives MSSJ Gohan a lot of trouble during sparring matches.

-They seem to be MSSJs.

[DieHard]

okay if they are so strong why vegeta said the adult saiyans dont need ssj to win the tournament?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

okay if they are so strong why vegeta said the adult saiyans dont need ssj to win the tournament?

He didn't say that. Gohan recommended that no saiyan use their SSJ forms, and Vegeta says he'll still have an advantage like that.

[DieHard]

advantage on piccolo too

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Who said Vegeta knew Piccolo was entering?

[DieHard]

are you serious?

[Hitiro]

Who even said he was talking about anybody other than his fellow Saiyan's either?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Yes, I am. No one told Vegeta, so it's pure conjecture to say Vegeta knows Piccolo was entering.

[DieHard]

he cant sense piccolo's ki anymore?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

So what you're saying is, Vegeta, prior to making his declaration, is searching for Piccolo's ki, feels that Piccolo is in the direction the plane is flying, individually comes to the conclusion that Piccolo is also entering, and then is able to come to the conclusion he won't need Super Saiyan?

[DieHard]

its really difficult to talk to you

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Thanks : )

[DieHard]

[Hitiro]

Why must he sense Piccolo's Ki to know whether or not Piccolo was entering the tournament? It's pretty much supposition on anybodies part as to whether Vegeta was including Piccolo in his statement or not. His statement can either just be about the Saiyan's or including others, like Piccolo, into the equation as well. But to say Vegeta knows that Piccolo is joining the tournament when we don't even see any statements proving it is simply supposition. We can't know if Vegeta knew Piccolo was joining or not unless we're told.

[Tyro]

Do you suppose they would have told him that #18 was competing in the tournament? She was riding in the plane.

[Hitiro]

Do you suppose they would have told him that #18 was competing in the tournament? She was riding in the plane.

If they didn't tell him that Piccolo was fighting why would they have told him #18 is fighting as well?

[Tyro]

Do you suppose they would have told him that #18 was competing in the tournament? She was riding in the plane.

If they didn't tell him that Piccolo was fighting why would they have told him #18 is fighting as well?

Because she was in the riding in the plane with them unlike meeting them at the island like Piccolo did. And Chi Chi was chatting with Yamcha in the back, asking if it was true that he really wasn't going to compete. And where's proof saying one way or another that Vegeta didn't know Piccolo was competing?

[Hitiro]

Because she was in the riding in the plane with them unlike meeting them at the island like Piccolo did. And Chi Chi was chatting with Yamcha in the back, asking if it was true that he really wasn't going to compete. And where's proof saying one way or another that Vegeta didn't know Piccolo was competing?

Doesn't necessarily mean he knew she was fighting. Yamcha came a long despite him not fighting. There were people in the plane just coming to spectate, doesn't mean that #18 couldn't be either unless Vegeta was told. I'm not saying Vegeta didn't know #18 was fighting. But nothing actually says he did or didn't either way you look at it. Same with Piccolo as I said in my above point. There is no dialogue or confirmation that Vegeta knew Piccolo was competing or not. There's no proof either way so all we can do is make assumptions. The same with Vegeta's dialogue. We don't know whether he is referring to just the Saiyan's or everyone competing.