Goten and Trunks power discussion?

[Kamiccolo9]

Because she was in the riding in the plane with them unlike meeting them at the island like Piccolo did. And Chi Chi was chatting with Yamcha in the back, asking if it was true that he really wasn't going to compete. And where's proof saying one way or another that Vegeta didn't know Piccolo was competing?

Doesn't necessarily mean he knew she was fighting. Yamcha came a long despite him not fighting. There were people in the plane just coming to spectate. I'm not saying Vegeta didn't know #18 was fighting. But nothing actually says he did or didn't either way you look at it. Same with Piccolo as I said in my above point. There is no dialogue or confirmation that Vegeta knew Piccolo was competing or not. There's no proof either way so all we can do is make assumptions. The same with Vegeta's dialogue. We don't know whether he is referring to just the Saiyan's or everyone competing.

Or if he just agreed to shut Gohan up, which has always been my belief.

[Hitiro]

Or if he just agreed to shut Gohan up, which has always been my belief.

Well, honestly to me it seems like Vegeta is just talking about the Saiyan's when he says he'll have the upper hand. He literally says that if no one is a SSJ then conditions for them will be the same and he'd still be superior. As far as I'm aware Piccolo and #18 can't be SSJ's, lol.

[Kamiccolo9]

Or if he just agreed to shut Gohan up, which has always been my belief.

Well, honestly to me it seems like Vegeta is just talking about the Saiyan's when he says he'll have the upper hand. He literally says that if no one is a SSJ then conditions for them will be the same and he'd still be superior. As far as I'm aware Piccolo and #18 can't be SSJ's, lol.

Either way works. It's not particularly hard to make the statement fit, which is why I'm baffled that so many people see it as some kind of insurmountable obstacle to the base Saiyans being weaker than Freeza.

[DieHard]

daubra and babidi said the 3 saiyans were amazing,unlike piccolo or kaioshin,its STATED in the manga

[dbgtFO]

daubra and babidi said the 3 saiyans were amazing,unlike piccolo or kaioshin,its STATED in the manga

Yes and they were proved right, so what's the problem?

[Kaboom]

its really difficult to talk to you

What's not difficult is to put a little care into your posts. Please take a little extra time to fine-tune the grammar and punctuation in them, and please refrain from post like this...

...Which bring nothing to the conversation. Thanks.

[Hitiro]

daubra and babidi said the 3 saiyans were amazing,unlike piccolo or kaioshin,its STATED in the manga

Dabra was the one who said they had amazing energy. But both of them were also shocked when Base Vegeta managed to do defeat Pui Pui easily. What does that tell you? Dabra is a magical being so it is more than likely he has some other way of sensing the fighters. The only way the Saiyan's were able to gauge Dabra's strength was through his fighting ability that he demonstrated. Whatever sensing ability Dabra has. It is probably limited to vaguely gauging who is the strongest in front of him, including transformations. Because his sensing ability is through his magic powers. This is how I see it anyway. Because otherwise it wouldn't make sense for him to be so shocked by Vegeta being so strong.

[DieHard]

Maybe Pui-pui was strong. [PORNOGRAHPIC IMAGE REMOVED BY MODERATOR. USER BANNED.] Kaioshin was little scared of Pui-pui.

[Hitiro]

Maybe Pui-pui was strong. [PORNOGRAHPIC IMAGE REMOVED BY MODERATOR. USER BANNED.] Kaioshin was little scared of Pui-pui.

So strong he thought 10 times normal gravity was a great achievement. Even the dead members of the Z-senshi in the Namek arc had little difficulty coping with that gravity at the time. Kaioshin was scared of everything to do with Babidi. It's more like one of those reputation > strength scenarios. Like how Mr. Satan is supposed to be the champion of Earth and even makes people like Trunks wonder if he really is that strong but it is clear that he isn't from fighting with him. If Dabra could actually tell how strong the Saiyan's were then he'd know Pui Pui was no match for them. Much more likely that all his magic sensing ability does is give him an inkling as to who is the strongest in comparison to the others.

[DieHard]

was it ever said that gravity is proportional to power levels?

[Hitiro]

was it ever said that gravity is proportional to power levels?

How much gravity you can withstand should be proportional to battle power if characters are stronger the higher their battle power is. We see Gohan perfectly fine under the gravitational effects of the RoSaT in the manga. He notices that he is heavier but that is all. There is also Trunks later on in the manga struggling under 150x Earth's gravity. But SSJ allows him to run about with ease. If anything Trunks would have been flattened like a pancake if his battle power didn't help him under the influence of 150x Earth's gravity. It's never actually stated in the manga but the events we see in the manga clearly imply it.

[Hugo Boss]

One question, should Kid Gohan and Nailccolo give trouble to SS Goku in a sparring match?

Based on what we see, Goku has no aura, isn't sweating, and taking on two people at once. It would also make sense for Goku to suppress to a lower level, since the training was for Gohan and Piccolo. We also see in the Android arc that Goku didn't improve that much while Piccolo improved a lot.

Meanwhile, Gohan is physically exerting effort, gritting his teeth, flaring his aura, and sweating bullets while only sparring with one person (Goten), it would also not make sense to suppress in this situation, since the training was initially for Gohan, and holding back would only slow him down. Just like Gohan would slow down Goku in the RoSaT until he became a Super Saiyan.

The only thing we know about their training in the Android Arc is that they were doing it together. Basically, your argument is that the partners must be close in strenght for one to exert effort based on detached panels. Gohan and Goten didn't train all the time together if we go by those panels. Even Vegeta and Trunks interacted for one instance. What about Base Goten giving trouble to SS Gohan and then doing the same thing as Super Saiyan? Wasn't the point of Gohan's training to retrieve his old strenght?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

So Gohan is struggling to avoid Goten's hits and is forced into the air when the latter is far weaker than the former? Because Goku and the Ginyu's was less than a 2x gap and they couldn't even make Goku break a sweat.

Yes Gohan is training to regain old strength, so obviously training with a partner far weaker than you won't help you do that.

[Hitiro]

The only thing we know about their training in the Android Arc is that they were doing it together. Basically, your argument is that the partners must be close in strenght for one to exert effort based on detached panels. Gohan and Goten didn't train all the time together if we go by those panels. Even Vegeta and Trunks interacted for one instance. What about Base Goten giving trouble to SS Gohan and then doing the same thing as Super Saiyan? Wasn't the point of Gohan's training to retrieve his old strenght?

His argument is pretty valid. Would you break out in a sweat if all you were doing is lifting a pen up and down all day? Because SSJ Goku would only need close to 1/50th of his strength to fight Piccolo and Gohan in the Android arc. Maybe Piccolo would push Goku to use more strength later but there should not be any reason for Goku to be sweating when he is literally not exerting any effort.

Also, how did Base Goten give trouble to SSJ Gohan exactly? Gohan was caught off guard by Goten's rock throwing speed. Which is fair. He didn't know how strong his brother was. Ricky Hatton, a boxer, manged to throw punches which generated around 25 mph in a test with the highest punch recorded at 32 mph. In comparison, baseball pitches generate around 4 times that speed. It's pretty easy to see why Gohan was caught off-guard and why he asked Goten to start further back at the start so he can get used to the speed. Not that it gave him any trouble afterwards. He asked Goten to get closer after a few throws. Gohan would have to be using 2/25th of his ability to keep up up with Goten's rock throwing. That is honestly better than SSJ Goku's 1/50th sparring with Gohan and Piccolo.

[Hugo Boss]

So Gohan is struggling to avoid Goten's hits and is forced into the air when the latter is far weaker than the former? Because Goku and the Ginyu's was less than a 2x gap and they couldn't even make Goku break a sweat.

Yes Gohan is training to regain old strength, so obviously training with a partner far weaker than you won't help you do that.

You particularly ignored Base Goten and Super Goten making no difference at all part. Do you mean there is a rule to such gaps? Maybe you could elaborate on that. Gohan even didn't regain his old strenght, then I don't understand your point.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Him and base Goten didn't spar?

[Hugo Boss]

Him and base Goten didn't spar?

No, as Hitiro pointed above Base Goten was throwing rocks against Gohan, whose he had trouble to dodge, while he caught bullets as nothing. Imagine if Goten was firing ki blasts.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Who said he had trouble? He only narrowly dodged the first one since he heavily underestimated Goten, after that he gives no indication of it being hard to dodge.

Also note while dodging the rocks, Gohan isn't flaring his aura, gritting his teeth, or sweating bullets.

[Hitiro]

Him and base Goten didn't spar?

No, as Hitiro pointed above Base Goten was throwing rocks against Gohan, whose he had trouble to dodge, while he caught bullets as nothing. Imagine if Goten was firing ki blasts.

Rock > Bullets. I was using figures of normal human beings. Goten is not normal. It is likely they are much faster than bullets considering punching speeds of the characters at this point.

[Hugo Boss]

Also note while dodging the rocks, Gohan isn't flaring his aura, gritting his teeth, or sweating bullets.

And why exactly this an indication of anything? Just because Gohan isn't like Goku, doesn't mean greeting his teeth makes Goten close to Goku at Cell Games. Gohan was as shell of his former self.