How strong can goku get?

[Hitiro]

*applause*

This exactly. Goku jumped from 300~400 to 8000 in a year, from 8000 to 90000 in a week, and from 90000 to 3,000,000 in a day. After that his power increases are slower, never reaching Freeza's 120kk. He trains for a year in Yardrat and three years for the androids but doesn't get much stronger, only gets substantial increases as he masters the Super Saiyan form in the RoSaT.

Goku didn't train his strength for the year on Yardrat. All his time was spent healing and learning the Yardratian teleport according to what, he himself, said. Though it is understandable why his strength didn't increase much within the 3 years. He had been training Piccolo and Gohan to be as strong as him.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Gains are gains no matter how you count them. He still improved vastly with a couple of months training.

These are special gains, and I'm not talking about these gains, just like I'm not counting the gains Goku had from the Super God Water, his near-death power-ups, and his transformations. I'm taking about gains that come purely through his training.

Sparring with Gohan when they're both SSJ's still increased their Ki and Stamina by 10. Which is still a significant amount compared to the other training menu's.

Stamina was increased by 4. I'm not saying that Goku didn't get any big gains from his training, but the majority of his gains came from constantly being a Super Saiyan, and perhaps constantly being a Super Saiyan even amplified his gains from his training. But either way, it should be normal for Goku to have big gains from that, since this is the first time in his life he had a sparring partner on his league, and he had never trained in the conditions of the RoSaT.

[Hitiro]

Gains are gains no matter how you count them. He still improved vastly with a couple of months training.

These are special gains, and I'm not talking about these gains, just like I'm not counting the gains Goku had from the Super God Water, his near-death power-ups, and his transformations. I'm taking about gains that come purely through his training.

So are you saying gravity training isn't special gains? Them maintaining SSJ would be just another way to train like gravity training is another way to train. To be honest I don't even think they received gains from maintaining SSJ. In my opinion all of their gains were through sparring as SSJ's.

Sparring with Gohan when they're both SSJ's still increased their Ki and Stamina by 10. Which is still a significant amount compared to the other training menu's.

Stamina was increased by 4. I'm not saying that Goku didn't get any big gains from his training, but the majority of his gains came from constantly being a Super Saiyan, and perhaps constantly being a Super Saiyan even amplified his gains from his training. But either way, it should be normal for Goku to have big gains from that, since this is the first time in his life he had a sparring partner on his league, and he had never trained in the conditions of the RoSaT.

You say a majority of his gains came from constantly being a SSJ. That is just basing it on the SEG guide though. I've always considered Goku getting these massive gains was due to him sparring with his son who was constantly improving because of his massive potential. Goku was forced to improve to keep up with Gohan's huge potential. Like how Akira Toriyama said that at the start of the between Goku and Beerus, Goku was a 6 but as the fight progressed he got closer to a 10.

[Kamiccolo9]

Like how Akira Toriyama said that at the start of the between Goku and Beerus, Goku was a 6 but as the fight progressed he got closer to a 10.

That's not what it said.

He said that Goku was a 6, and Beerus was a 10. Whis later states that Beerus was using 70% of his power, meaning that when Goku went to full power, it was a 6 fighting a 7.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

So are you saying gravity training isn't special gains?

Why would it be?

Them maintaining SSJ would be just another way to train like gravity training is another way to train. To be honest I don't even think they received gains from maintaining SSJ. In my opinion all of their gains were through sparring as SSJ's.

SEG states otherwise.

You say a majority of his gains came from constantly being a SSJ. That is just basing it on the SEG guide though. I've always considered Goku getting these massive gains was due to him sparring with his son who was constantly improving because of his massive potential. Goku was forced to improve to keep up with Gohan's huge potential.

I am using SEG as a source because Toriyama supervised & approved this specific section of the guidebook. And since it doesn't contradict the manga in any way, I have no reason to ignore it. I don't entirely disagree with you on the thing about Gohan though, Gohan definitely did help him to improve a lot. But it was the mastery of Super Saiyan that did most of the job, according to SEG, and the manga showed that mastering Super Saiyan was a big thing, and a big reason for Goku's new great power.

[Hitiro]

Like how Akira Toriyama said that at the start of the between Goku and Beerus, Goku was a 6 but as the fight progressed he got closer to a 10.

That's not what it said.

He said that Goku was a 6, and Beerus was a 10. Whis later states that Beerus was using 70% of his power, meaning that when Goku went to full power, it was a 6 fighting a 7.

Pretty much is said:

I suppose if Beerus’ strength is a 10, [Super Saiyan] God would be right about 6. Only, Saiyans rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponents, so the longer they fought, the more that gap would shrink, and it might even be possible for them to eventually turn the tables

Akira Toriyama clearly states here that Saiyan's rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponenst. So the longer Goku fought against Beerus the smaller the gap should become.

So are you saying gravity training isn't special gains?

Why would it be?

Probably because it is an unnatural way of training? Like how training by maintaining SSJ would be unnatural?

Them maintaining SSJ would be just another way to train like gravity training is another way to train. To be honest I don't even think they received gains from maintaining SSJ. In my opinion all of their gains were through sparring as SSJ's.

SEG states otherwise.

I'm free to disagree with some aspects of the guides if I find they don't make sense. This is one such occasion. I can understand how maintaining the form for long periods of time is great for stamina. But for it to literally increase your states without any need to work for it is frankly ridiculous in my opinion. They may as well just do it constantly in the manga then and forget all about base training. Because the guide says nothing about "mastery" it just says that constantly maintaining the form provides those benefits. Seems pretty useless to do anything but this form of training along with either weight or gravity training. Yet characters still train in their base forms in the Boo arc.

I am using SEG as a source because Toriyama supervised & approved this specific section of the guidebook. And since it doesn't contradict the manga in any way, I have no reason to ignore it. I don't entirely disagree with you on the thing about Gohan though, Gohan definitely did help him to improve a lot. But it was the mastery of Super Saiyan that did most of the job, according to SEG, and the manga showed that mastering Super Saiyan was a big thing, and a big reason for Goku's new great power.

As far as I'm aware even Herms has said in about the statement that he supervised it that it is particularly vague and that we don't know how much of an active role he had in making these figures. So unless you can provide proof that SEG is a source Toriyama supervised this to the extent he gave a rats ass then it's pretty much useless to say he supervised it. Because for all we know he, like Herms postulated, could have been sitting in the room playing video games making sure none of the staff died from working on it.

[Kamiccolo9]

Like how Akira Toriyama said that at the start of the between Goku and Beerus, Goku was a 6 but as the fight progressed he got closer to a 10.

That's not what it said.

He said that Goku was a 6, and Beerus was a 10. Whis later states that Beerus was using 70% of his power, meaning that when Goku went to full power, it was a 6 fighting a 7.

Pretty much is said:

I suppose if Beerus’ strength is a 10, [Super Saiyan] God would be right about 6. Only, Saiyans rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponents, so the longer they fought, the more that gap would shrink, and it might even be possible for them to eventually turn the tables

Akira Toriyama clearly states here that Saiyan's rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponenst. So the longer Goku fought against Beerus the smaller the gap

That's saying that the more they fight, the stronger they get, just like it's been ever since it was revealed that Goku was a Saiyan.

It's not saying that Goku gets stronger during his fights.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Probably because it is an unnatural way of training? Like how training by maintaining SSJ would be unnatural?

It's a normal way to train, and anybody can do it. Mastering Super Saiyan is a special characteristic of the Saiyans, like their near-death power-ups & transformations. I'm talking about Goku's training gains, not his gains through his Saiyan privileges, or other sources like the Super God Water.

I'm free to disagree with some aspects of the guides if I find they don't make sense.

I never argued with that, you are free to ignore anything outside of the original manga.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

As strong as the plot requires as mentioned above.

But from an in universe perspective, I see no reason for Goku to even reach Super Buu/Gotenks/U. Gohan level.

[Hugo Boss]

Training itself is an unnatural thing, you know. Maybe you don't need exactly the most intense training to get the better results from it. It depends on how one's body and mind works in the situation. Some need more rest than others.

[Hitiro]

That's saying that the more they fight, the stronger they get, just like it's been ever since it was revealed that Goku was a Saiyan.

It's not saying that Goku gets stronger during his fights.

It seems clear here that it is on about them getting stronger over the course of a fight as well. But my point was that this was the cause for Goku getting stronger against Gohan. Even if you assume that it's not during a fight and over several fights Goku fought against Gohan countless times in the RoSaT with Gohan probably being much stronger than Goku because of the insane potential he had. So my point really still stands. Goku got to where he was fighting against Gohan over the course of their time in the RoSaT.

[KingKaiGuy]

I always saw it as no one has real limits in terms how strong the ki/chi was, if you catch my drift. Like yeah, Goku won't lift 16 quintillion tons, but he can beat any enemt that comes his way because there are no limits. What makes him such a great character is that he always wants to improve himself, which is a quality that anyone should strive for (his parenting is a different story).

[DBZAOTA482]

Goku = Vegeta ;In terms of potential