Should Toriyama's word be taken as absolute truth?

[EXBadguy]

Like other people said, Toriyama's world, not ours. But I'm starting to think he has Alzheimer's or something similar, since he forgets a LOT of shit, like 18's hair color.

If Toriyama said Bulma had a penis, would you believe it?

COMMENT OF THE YEAR!

I got one. If Toriyama said Yamcha liked men, would you believe that? I mean, we all know Yamcha is or was afraid of women, right?

[Saiga]

If Toriyama said Bulma had a penis, would you believe it?

Irrelevant.

Also, I'm sure Kame Sen'nin would have said something when she flashed him without any underwear on.

That's kind of the point. Toriyama saying that would be at odds with the series.

Anyway, I go with Toriyama's word on not completely trusting Toriyama's word. He never claimed to be infallible, and never asked to have everything he said taken as utmost truth.

[TheGreatness25]

Did he ever say anything that directly contradicts something?

I see Resurrection F as contradicting the series. Bulma says that she hasn't seen Goku in five years on the third to last episode of Dragon Ball Z (I believe it as). Pan was five during the 28th Tenkaichi Tournament. If Forgetting the nine months that it would take, if has been born in Resurrection F, and Goku sees Bulma, it would be inconsistent with Bulma's statements. Yeah, it's nitpicky, but that's just an example.

At this point, I feel like the new content kind of clashes with the established Dragon Ball story. I guess that kind of has to do with Akira Toriyama's forgetfulness.

[Dyno]

Did he ever say anything that directly contradicts something?

I think there are some but the only one coming in my mind now is Buu's origin. But... Authors are always safe because there is something to protect them called "retcon", or the magic line: "though it was said that, actually happened this".

[TheGreatness25]

I mean even if he is the creator of the series, think about how many years ago it was. An I'm sure he never dedicated as much time watching and studying it as we did. I don't even blame him. There are some dots that fans connect that are like, "it's amazing that you got that...wow." I'm sure that for him, it was writing it and banging out another issue on its due date. I actually feel like some of us are much more attached to the series than he as. That, plus how many years ago he wrote it, it's perfectly reasonable that he forgets things.

When he talks about how he's "careless" an "forgetful," I think it's just his way of trying to keep the fans from yelling at him about what kind of author he is, not knowing his own work the way the fans do.

[Kamiccolo9]

The Buu origin thing was weird, because it's clear that Toriyama didn't forget Buu's manga origins, since he flat-out said that Babidi was mistaken/lying/misinformed.

I don't like it, but I see no reason not to accept it. It's an actual retcon, not a contradiction.



The stuff about the Kaioshin, for example, does seem more like a mistake, so I don't really take it into account.

[Big Momma]

I got one. If Toriyama said Yamcha liked men, would you believe that? I mean, we all know Yamcha is or was afraid of women, right?

Given the reason you stated, sure. It doesn't seem impossible. He's always been a pretty boy.

[UpFromTheSkies]

Yes, Toriyama's word is absolute truth within the Dragon Ball world.

You see, the Dragon Ball universe is created and sustained by the imagination of a very forgetful God named Tori-bot, who also happens to be the avatar of Akira Toriyama himself. If Tori-bot forgets something, or decides it should be different on a whim, then it instantly changes, no explanation needed. The characters are even aware of him, they just don't mention him often...

[FortuneSSJ]

So if AT said that Bulma could defeat SSJ3 Goku in a fight, would you take it as absolute truth. No. Because it is just old fashion common sense and logic.

Bulma's bitchslap did hurt Base Goku in BOG though. It's possible.

In a gag scene?! yeah its possible.

[Friggin_Krillin]

I don't see Inconsistences which are working against former established Things too much. One Thing i was a little on the Fence about was Babidi being a Clone of Bibidi, rather then his Son. But hey, some Duplicates may acknowledge the Original as their 'Father'. Clever Loophole. I just wonder why he came up with an Update like this though.

Or Bardock. He himself never got much into him back in the Day, aside from giving him some Panels in the Manga and pointing at his Existence. Finally, decades later, he devoted him a Backstory from his Point of View in the Jaco Manga, which i think should count as the Truth now overall. With Gine's Reveal as Intensification. I do like his TV-Special Persona better though.

[Dyno]

Finally, decades later, he devoted him a Backstory from his Point of View in the Jaco Manga.

Tell me you aren't being serious. Because... There is no backstory for him there.

[DBZAOTA482]

So if AT said that Bulma could defeat SSJ3 Goku in a fight, would you take it as absolute truth. No. Because it is just old fashion common sense and logic.

Bulma's bitchslap did hurt Base Goku in BOG though. It's possible.

In a gag scene?! yeah its possible.

...or maybe... Bulma's like Gohan or Oob were her powers are heavily linked to her emotions.... or Goku was suppressing his powers.

[Kid Buu]

I got one. If Toriyama said Yamcha liked men, would you believe that? I mean, we all know Yamcha is or was afraid of women, right?

There's nothing in the manga that goes against that, actually.

[Lord Beerus]

I got one. If Toriyama said Yamcha liked men, would you believe that? I mean, we all know Yamcha is or was afraid of women, right?

There's nothing in the manga that goes against that, actually.

Or... maybe Yamcha could be... bisexual? Hell, that seems more likely.

[kei17]

But yeah, everyone take a deep breathe and remember we are discussing a cartoon and the comic that it is based upon.

That's why I hate recent harsh criticisms toward Toriyama; It's just a weekly-serielized shonen manga series we're talking about. Who cares minor inconsistencies? Sure, he has bad memories and some of his new ideas contradict with what happened in the original series, but is that such a big matter that makes you deny the original creator's authority? And they're not as absurd as Bulma having a penis or anything problematic enough to spoil your enjoyment.

People are too obsessed with their fan-developed idol that's based upon something not even consistent from the beginning. They should keep a cool head.

[FoolsGil]

I do love my tropes:

Death of the Author: a concept from literary criticism which holds that an author's intentions and biographical facts should hold no weight when coming to an interpretation of their writing; that is, that a writer's interpretation of his own work is no more valid than the interpretations of any of the readers.

The answer depends on you. I'm going to go ahead and say it's awesome that 17 and 18 have real names, and glad that 17 actually had a pretty good life after Cell. Not so good with the Dr. Gero being the true brain behind the Red Ribbon Army and will probably keep ignoring that.

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

Marked for deletion.

[bleed0range]

I mean even if he is the creator of the series, think about how many years ago it was. An I'm sure he never dedicated as much time watching and studying it as we did. I don't even blame him. There are some dots that fans connect that are like, "it's amazing that you got that...wow." I'm sure that for him, it was writing it and banging out another issue on its due date. I actually feel like some of us are much more attached to the series than he as. That, plus how many years ago he wrote it, it's perfectly reasonable that he forgets things.

When he talks about how he's "careless" an "forgetful," I think it's just his way of trying to keep the fans from yelling at him about what kind of author he is, not knowing his own work the way the fans do.

Most people who create things whether it be music, movies or cartoons... usually don't invest themselves in the end product and revisit it and such. Most people who are creative enjoy the part where they get to be creative. In other words, it's more fun to write the song or draw the panel then anything else. Usually after writing music a lot of musicians are really proud of their work and listen back a few times but that quickly dissipates. Next thing you know they've moved on to making something else new, because that's the FUN part. So, I'm sure Toriyama had fun making up story points and drawing things but it's unlikely he probably thought much about whatever story or drawing he had made past the initial first few days/weeks after he made them. He probably never revisited any of that stuff.

Add 20 years of life away from it on top of that and it's easy to see how he doesn't remember. I write music myself so I can understand which is why I put that as an example. I've been writing songs now for about 10 years and I cannot remember every song I ever wrote anymore because they total in the hundreds. I remember a few really good ones that were important to me in a special way... I remember the lyrics to ... SOME of those songs. But I haven't performed things I wrote in 2005/6 since.... 2005/6. I rarely go back more then a year at revisiting my older work. Because I'm always more impressed by the new stuff that I make. This is probably why Toriyama says he thinks Jaco is the best character he has made recently. The fun is in the creation process not the end result.

The end result is for everyone else.

[fadeddreams5]

It's always a weird feeling when you write something you're proud of and revisit it years later (assuming you didn't write the stuff as a kid). Might not be as happy with it as you initially were, or you find mistakes or flaws you never saw before. Cringey feeling. =P

[SpiritBombTriumphant]

I take what he's been saying lately as truth. He talked about new scouters, Buu's true origins, and stuff about Bibbidi as well. I think the retcons he's mentioned lately are going to tie into the film somehow. I mean we already say Tagoma wearing a full-eye scanner. There was something else but I forget what it was. But my point is that I think he's retconning these things because they will be important later for this film. Hell, with Buu's new origins and suddenly the revelation that King Cold told Frieza to "never mess with Buu," I'm sure some big things are going to happen later.

tl;dr Take all of his latest retcons as absolute truth and as hints that they will be important for the upcoming movie.