Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
awww... I like pudding more than strawberry sundae
But ice cream is soooooo much better.
Look at the page count! 860 pages, and we are still 10/11 days from the preview screening. This thread is gonna be over 9000 8000 pages by the time the next movie is announced.
Hi! My name's Abel, and I'm pretty awesome.
VegettoEX wrote:
Abel is pretty awesome.
SaiyaJedi wrote:
Abel is the best contributor to this forum ever! He's the true Julian #1
Herms wrote:
Abel is so awesome that I forgot how to speak Japanese.
awww... I like pudding more than strawberry sundae
But ice cream is soooooo much better.
I WANT Pudding, not gonna change my mind (but if its normal ice-cream Ill make an exception )
Abel Taylor wrote:
Look at the page count! 860 pages, and we are still 10/11 days from the preview screening. This thread is gonna be over 9000 8000 pages by the time the next movie is announced.
nah, probably 1000-2000 no more
danielsan_190196 wrote:Thanks for the original Latin American voice cast, FOX.
Araki wrote:
These days people start throwing the words "filler" and "silce of life" everytime characters aren't punching each other. No matter if something is moving the plot or there's character exposition.
Imagine if DB started these days. It would go like this:
"hey, what's happening in Dragon Ball today?"
"Goku wants Mutenroshi to train him, so he's bringing him some chicks now."
"oh i see, just slice of life filler then. skippable. "
I'm also translating this interview for Kanzenshuu. Here are a... few... points on their translation:* * Note that my own translations here are part of my working translation and liable to change as I make adjustments to syntax and word choice.
It's not "two more" people who've just seen the movie, it's just "two people".
They skipped Naho Ooishi's first line ("My pleasure! Freeza really was the star of the show, wasn't he!") and attributed Toyotaro's second line to her.
In Toyotaro's second line (wrongly attributed to Ooishi), the "remnants" of Freeza's forces are mistranslated as "refugees" and their translation implies that they follow him only out of fear, when it actually just says they all follow him out of fear. The bit about charisma is also messed up: the Japanese actually says "With a sort of charisma, he has an appeal like no other."
In Ooishi's second line, what she actually says about the first appearance of Golden Freeza is, "When he becomes Golden Freeza, the way he bashfully introduces himself is nice, too. [laughs]"
The phrasing of Toyotaro's following line is a bit mangled, but more or less gets the point across.
Ooishi's last line on page 10 actually starts, "Freeza was born with a mutation, wasn't he." (Which we know by Toriyama's previous comments.) While Ooishi implies that Freeza is unique among his family, she doesn't actually put it that way.
At the end of the same line, Ooishi actually says "The concept, or rather, the line of thinking, of Freeza training for the first time and suddenly getting so powerful, makes me think 'Toriyama-sensei really is amazing'!". It doesn't say that "only" Toriyama could come up with such a thing.
In Toyotaro's cartoon on page 10, they mistranslate "revenge" as "review". Both are pronounced the same in Japanese (fukushuu), but the kanji is clearly 復讐, "revenge". In the fourth panel, Freeza actually says "It's so cramped in here, I can't stand it", and in the fifth panel, he actually says "We are completely over [the ship's] maximum capacity...".
The commentary in Ooishi's cartoon on page 11 should say, "Fans who say 'Dragon Ball's greatest villain has definitely got to be Freeza!' must get themselves out to the movie theater! I also want you to keep your eye out for [the main characters'?] familiarity with Beerus and Whis, who have become regulars, as well as Kame-Sen'nin's active role!!"
The question on page 11 should read, "What other scenes left an impression on you?" The interviewer doesn't say anything about "DBZ"; he/she is clearly talking about the movie they just saw.
Ooishi's response to the above question is mucked up, perhaps because the translator is unaware of the first "Double Dragon Talk" from two years ago. What she actually says is, "Back when I gave my thoughts on DBZ: Battle of Gods, I ended up giving an impression as "somebody who loves Vegeta waaay too much".... [laughs] But Vegeta was really good this time, too...!! Although it's in a completely different way from the last movie."
Toyotaro doesn't just parrot Ooishi's comment about Vegeta's role being in a completely different way. He says, "In a way, it's the exact opposite of the last movie, but it was whole-heartedly 'cool'." He goes on to talk not about a "greatest scene", but that "I think you could even say that, including past works [i.e., the 1990s Z films], this outing has [Vegeta's] biggest role out of all the Dragon Ball Z movies!"
Ooishi's comment about the clothing is specifically directed at Vegeta's fighting clothes, not "their outfits".
The interviewer's comment about liking Vegeta too much is specifically directed at Ooishi (in line with the above), not "you guys".
In Toyotaro's message to the fans, he mentions that "The fighting style of each individual Z-Warrior is unique and fun!", not that there are "one-on-one fights" (though there are probably a few of those mixed in as well).
Ooishi says that the conversation between Beerus and Bulma "personally really did it for me" (the word here is tsubo, which is literally a "pressure point", but means that it "hit the spot" or "tickled [her] funnybone"; not having seen the movie myself, it's difficult to know how exactly she meant it).
...OK, I'm done critiquing. I know I should just ignore it and get my own translation up, but something this off-base really rubs me the wrong way (especially because a lot more people are probably going to see this version than a proper translation).
So essentially, VegettoEX in a different skin.
I see what you're saying overall so I don't want you to think I missed the point of the very "few points" you made, but like I said essentially you two are both the "I don't mean to be that guy but I will be" type.
Thank you, Julian! So much. My hype for this movie has been elevated to a whole new level.
"this outing has [Vegeta's] biggest role out of all the Dragon Ball Z movies!"
Although Vegeta hasn't really had a very big role in any of the movies (besides maybe Fusion Reborn or the first Cooler movie?) I am feeling REALLY good about this statement.
Indeed, Chuquita, I believe we can safely say that this is the Vegeta Movie ^.^
mogi67 wrote:I kind of view Dragon Ball the same way I view mythology. It can be convoluted, contradictory, but always a treasure.
Bardo117 wrote:Honestly Vegeta better be the one to defeat him
Why?
"I wanted you to see what real courage is, instead of getting the idea that courage is a man with a gun in his hand. It’s when you know you’re licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird (1960)
“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” - Nelson Mandela
I love the dialogue and character interactions in chapter two of Revival of F, Toriyama really has stepped it up a notch for this movie. April can't come soon enough
And I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in the thread, it's too much too read, but it's revealed that the symbol on Goku and Vegeta's outfits is Whis' signature, which he wrote on them while fighting them without them noticing.
Bardo117 wrote:Honestly Vegeta better be the one to defeat him
Why?
Well it's been heavily implied by the promo material that he will, so having that not be the case would be like pulling the rug from under our feet.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:I swear, the Gohan fanboys won't be happy unless he just bends over and farts all of Freeza's men into the sun.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
Honestly, this would only make me slightly satisfied. To make me happy, he'd also have to grab Freeza by the tail, drag him to the nearest toilet, and give him swirlies until he submits and calls him "daddy."
Bardo117 wrote:Honestly Vegeta better be the one to defeat him
Why?
Idk about him, but I want Vegeta to win because he never has. It'll be nice to see that for once. The fact that it's Frieza is icing on the cake.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
Bardo117 wrote:Honestly Vegeta better be the one to defeat him
Why?
I'm all for this. Apparently beating bad guys is all that matters. Sure it's nice, but treating a character with respect is more important than being the main hero. Piccolo killed Raditz and didn't seem to really ride off that. Trunks killed Freeza and went downhill from there. Gohan killed Cell and also went downhill from there. So really what does it matter if you kill a main bad guy or not. Vegeta seems to slowly rise and he didn't need a main bad guy kill. Would anyone be happy if he killed Freeza, and then just went downhill from there like others.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Bardo117 wrote:Honestly Vegeta better be the one to defeat him
Why?
Well it's been heavily implied by the promo material that he will, so having that not be the case would be like pulling the rug from under our feet.
I've seen nothing 'heavily implied' by promo material, tbh. I've seen people gleam assumptions from it, but the material itself doesn't really hint at this.
Especially with the last trailer having Freeza offer Vegeta command of his forces before he approaches Goku. I can see him playing a key role, a big one even, but I don't see him pulling off a win on his own.
"I wanted you to see what real courage is, instead of getting the idea that courage is a man with a gun in his hand. It’s when you know you’re licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird (1960)
“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” - Nelson Mandela
Bardo117 wrote:Honestly Vegeta better be the one to defeat him
Why?
Idk about him, but I want Vegeta to win because he never has. It'll be nice to see that for once. The fact that it's Freeza is icing on the cake.
I suppose the many wins throughout the course of the series don't count.
"I wanted you to see what real courage is, instead of getting the idea that courage is a man with a gun in his hand. It’s when you know you’re licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird (1960)
“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” - Nelson Mandela
Bardo117 wrote:Honestly Vegeta better be the one to defeat him
Why?
Freeza ruined Vegeta's life, and he never got one good shot at him plus he always jobs the main villains. Now that Vegeta's a much better person it wouldn't feel off for him to come up on top this time.
He has more personal ties with Freeza and more reasons to deserve beating him than any of the Z-Senshi.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
I think at this point being that it seems to be so many peoples impression that Vegeta will be the one to defeat Frieza that if that actually isn't the case and Goku defeats him, then I can see a lot of people getting disappointed.
Bardo117 wrote:Honestly Vegeta better be the one to defeat him
Why?
Freeza ruined Vegeta's life, and he never got one good shot at him plus he always jobs the main villains. Now that Vegeta's a much better person it wouldn't feel off for him to come up on top this time.
He has more personal ties with Freeza and more reasons to deserve beating him than any of the Z-Senshi.
Ruined his life by making him one of the top officers in his army, or ruined his life by killing off a people he never so much as hinted he missed?
I mean really, any and all reason for Vegeta "deserving" this stems from an idea that he had some kind of horrible life under Freeza, which he didn't. But he still planned to kill him and take his throne, essentially become him.
Realistically speaking, this is almost definitely going to require a team effort.
Last edited by ShadowWolf87 on Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I wanted you to see what real courage is, instead of getting the idea that courage is a man with a gun in his hand. It’s when you know you’re licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird (1960)
“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” - Nelson Mandela
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
I'm not overly attached to wanting one of them to win; Vegeta'd be a good choice for the sake of him getting revenge, with Gokû it'd be good since he's one of the people Freeza is focused on tormenting (plus I'd like to see Gokû accomplish a win with his ssjg mode), but having them work together like how they worked together to beat Buu (though no genki dama this time) would also be good.
Woah, I haven't thought about the "double agent Vegeta" theory in a while. O_O
With one more Weekly Jump issue to go before the preview screenings, I think if there's anything else they want us to know before we know everything, it'll be in next round of Jump leaks.
