Goku not being able to lift 40 tons.

[Bullza]

This issue was brought up before and I recall someone on here saying that in one of the Daizenshuu's or something that a comment was made about it being more difficult to handle in the air or something.

Is this true and if so what exactly was said?

It's always seemed off to me especially considering he pushed a boulder the size of a house when he was a little kid and then a bunch of other feats. Even Krillin was able to push that boulder.

[The Monkey King]

The weight numbers given in DB have never coincided with the feats the characters perform, not by a long shot. That's all I'll say about that.

As for the training in the air thing. That was stated in the Super Exciting Guide:

It’s worth pointing out that it basically says the reason Goku’s weight training in Heaven was so effective was that he used Bukujutsu to float in midair as he used the weights, which made it much harder. Goku’s never shown using Bukujutsu during any of his gravity training on Kaio’s or in the spaceship (at least not in the manga, that I can remember). It also says his image training/meditation was a means to raise his maximum ki, as muscle training has a limit. Toriyama mentioned there being limits to how much training your muscles could do and needing ki to overcome that limit in the book's interview.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 3&start=80

[Angelus]

Yes, he pushed boulders but his feet was firmly placed on the ground.

[rereboy]

Yes, he pushed boulders but his feet was firmly placed on the ground.

He lifted and threw a whole car in chapter one (and the car was based on a real life one that weights 1 tonne). No matter how we look at it, base Goku having trouble lifting 40 tonnes, even if he is flying while doing, doesn't make much sense.

[RancorSnp]

As much as the feats of early Dragon Ball shouldn't be used to measure things, as at this point it was planned as a short gag manga, Toriyama never stated that this car weighted about one tone. And there is no logical reason to think that a Hover Car, created to Hover in the air - has no chassis, wheels, and is definitely made out lightest materials possible not to waste power - weight is anywhere similar to our car of similar size.

[Doctor.]

As much as the feats of early Dragon Ball shouldn't be used to measure things, as at this point it was planned as a short gag manga, Toriyama never stated that this car weighted about one tone. And there is no logical reason to think that a Hover Car, created to Hover in the air - has no chassis, wheels, and is definitely made out lightest materials possible not to waste power - weight is anywhere similar to our car of similar size.

The car Goku lifted wasn't a hover car.

Either way, Raditz lifted a truck iirc.

[The Monkey King]

As much as the feats of early Dragon Ball shouldn't be used to measure things, as at this point it was planned as a short gag manga, Toriyama never stated that this car weighted about one tone. And there is no logical reason to think that a Hover Car, created to Hover in the air - has no chassis, wheels, and is definitely made out lightest materials possible not to waste power - weight is anywhere similar to our car of similar size.

It wasn't a hover car. It was stated to be a Renault 5 Turbo just like the ones IRL. They weight 1 ton, Goku lifted and threw it in the 1st chapter.

[Angelus]

Yes, he pushed boulders but his feet was firmly placed on the ground.

He lifted and threw a whole car in chapter one (and the car was based on a real life one that weights 1 tonne). No matter how we look at it, base Goku having trouble lifting 40 tonnes, even if he is flying while doing, doesn't make much sense.

Because, if he's flying, all that weight goes directly to his body. If he had rocket boots on, all the stress would go towards the rocket boots' "booster jet" or whatever.

When your feet are firmly on the ground, a good amount of that weight that you are carrying gets transferred to the ground.

Think of it this way, if you were carrying 100 pounds on you, while your feet are on the ground, you're not actually carrying all of the 100 pounds. A lot of that weight gets pushed down to the ground that you're standing on. Which is why, if you're standing on quicksand, the more heavier things you have on you, the quicker you sink, because all that weight gets transferred to the ground you're on. Or if you have 100 pounds of metal strapped on to your feet while you're in water, you will sink that much faster.

Now, imagine if you were floating on the air. All the weight of the 100 pounds will be on you. Even if you had rockets boots on to lift you up that is strong enough, all that transferred weight will go to your knees and ankles if you're in a standing position on the air. The force of the rocket boots lifting you up and the force of the 100 pounds you're carrying will both be put on your body. That's just an example though. The way DBZ people fly isn't like putting on rocket boots on your feet but you get the idea, all that weight doesn't get transferred to the ground.

[fadeddreams5]

Meanwhile, over at Superman's:

Spoiler:

[Angelus]

That pillar that Superman is pushing on would get dented because all the weight is being concentrated at such as small point, Superman's hand. The same way, his arm would punch a hole through a bus or plane that he's carrying because all that weight would get concentrated on his arm. He usually carries it with one hand. XD

Comic physics, yo. XD

[Kamiccolo9]

That pillar that Superman is pushing on would get dented because all the weight is being concentrated at such as small point, Superman's hand. The same way, his arm would punch a hole through a bus or plane that he's carrying because all that weight would get concentrated on his arm. He usually carries it with one hand. XD

Comic physics, yo. XD

Superman's bioelectric aura keeps the objects he's interacting with stable. It's why he can carry buildings and not have them collapse under their own weight.

[Saiyan007]

That pillar that Superman is pushing on would get dented because all the weight is being concentrated at such as small point, Superman's hand. The same way, his arm would punch a hole through a bus or plane that he's carrying because all that weight would get concentrated on his arm. He usually carries it with one hand. XD

Comic physics, yo. XD

Superman's bioelectric aura keeps the objects he's interacting with stable. It's why he can carry buildings and not have them collapse under their own weight.

that hasn't been stated in canon but it's just everyone headcanon

[rereboy]

Because, if he's flying, all that weight goes directly to his body. If he had rocket boots on, all the stress would go towards the rocket boots' "booster jet" or whatever.

When your feet are firmly on the ground, a good amount of that weight that you are carrying gets transferred to the ground.

Think of it this way, if you were carrying 100 pounds on you, while your feet are on the ground, you're not actually carrying all of the 100 pounds. A lot of that weight gets pushed down to the ground that you're standing on. Which is why, if you're standing on quicksand, the more heavier things you have on you, the quicker you sink, because all that weight gets transferred to the ground you're on. Or if you have 100 pounds of metal strapped on to your feet while you're in water, you will sink that much faster.

Now, imagine if you were floating on the air. All the weight of the 100 pounds will be on you. Even if you had rockets boots on to lift you up that is strong enough, all that transferred weight will go to your knees and ankles if you're in a standing position on the air. The force of the rocket boots lifting you up and the force of the 100 pounds you're carrying will both be put on your body. That's just an example though. The way DBZ people fly isn't like putting on rocket boots on your feet but you get the idea, all that weight doesn't get transferred to the ground.

I don't have trouble understanding that its harder to lift 40 tons while flying than it is to do it on the ground. But that added difficulty shouldn't even begin to make Goku, who is literally millions of times stronger than he was at chapter 1, have trouble lifting just 40 times what he lifted and threw on chapter 1.

Think of it this way: even if 1 ton lifted on the air equals to 10.000 tons lifted on ground due to that added difficulty, Goku would just have to be 40.000 times stronger than he was on chapter 1 to lift 40 tons on the air (which would equal 40.000 tons on the ground). And Goku is literally millions of times stronger.

[DBZAOTA482]

I think Goku can just not easily. Plus Goku and Krillin struggled to even push the boulder slightly.

[Tsufuru]

the statement about its harder to lift while flying doesnt make sense imo.
dont they hold back ki blasts while flying?

i mean ki blast come at you with extreme force.

[Angelus]

Because, if he's flying, all that weight goes directly to his body. If he had rocket boots on, all the stress would go towards the rocket boots' "booster jet" or whatever.

When your feet are firmly on the ground, a good amount of that weight that you are carrying gets transferred to the ground.

Think of it this way, if you were carrying 100 pounds on you, while your feet are on the ground, you're not actually carrying all of the 100 pounds. A lot of that weight gets pushed down to the ground that you're standing on. Which is why, if you're standing on quicksand, the more heavier things you have on you, the quicker you sink, because all that weight gets transferred to the ground you're on. Or if you have 100 pounds of metal strapped on to your feet while you're in water, you will sink that much faster.

Now, imagine if you were floating on the air. All the weight of the 100 pounds will be on you. Even if you had rockets boots on to lift you up that is strong enough, all that transferred weight will go to your knees and ankles if you're in a standing position on the air. The force of the rocket boots lifting you up and the force of the 100 pounds you're carrying will both be put on your body. That's just an example though. The way DBZ people fly isn't like putting on rocket boots on your feet but you get the idea, all that weight doesn't get transferred to the ground.

I don't have trouble understanding that its harder to lift 40 tons while flying than it is to do it on the ground. But that added difficulty shouldn't even begin to make Goku, who is literally millions of times stronger than he was at chapter 1, have trouble lifting just 40 times what he lifted and threw on chapter 1.

Think of it this way: even if 1 ton lifted on the air equals to 10.000 tons lifted on ground due to that added difficulty, Goku would just have to be 40.000 times stronger than he was on chapter 1 to lift 40 tons on the air (which would equal 40.000 tons on the ground). And Goku is literally millions of times stronger.

It’s worth pointing out that it basically says the reason Goku’s weight training in Heaven was so effective was that he used Bukujutsu to float in midair as he used the weights, which made it much harder. Goku’s never shown using Bukujutsu during any of his gravity training on Kaio’s or in the spaceship (at least not in the manga, that I can remember). It also says his image training/meditation was a means to raise his maximum ki, as muscle training has a limit. Toriyama mentioned there being limits to how much training your muscles could do and needing ki to overcome that limit in the book's interview.

Well, it doesn't have to be incredibly much harder. The way I see it, since Goku is a lot stronger, it would be like doing bicep curls with a dumbbell on one hand while trying to make a sandwich on the other hand. It makes both tasks more difficult but not at an incredibly more difficult rate. In comparison, it would be much easier to do just one task by itself. Flying and lifting weights would be doing two things at the same time. Goku would need to push Ki to the ground to keep himself afloat and on the same time, lift some weights. AT did just say "which made it much harder".

[xmysticgohanx]

Tao Pai Pai's pillar feat requires ~ a million tons of strength to accomplish. There's also the fact that first form Freeza pulled off Nail's arm which has planet level durability, however it can't really be quantitified because iirc you can't convert force into mass.

[rereboy]

Well, it doesn't have to be incredibly much harder. The way I see it, since Goku is a lot stronger, it would be like doing bicep curls with a dumbbell on one hand while trying to make a sandwich on the other hand. It makes both tasks more difficult but not at an incredibly more difficult rate. In comparison, it would be much easier to do just one task by itself. Flying and lifting weights would be doing two things at the same time. Goku would need to push Ki to the ground to keep himself afloat and on the same time, lift some weights. AT did just say "which made it much harder".

Like it said, even if it's 10000 times harder, it still doesn't make much sense. Especially since he has no trouble doing it with SSJ which shows that it was just a matter of power.

[Tectorman]

Goku weighs 137 lbs and was carrying 40 tons. So he had a total of 80,137 lbs (plus his clothes, which might not matter unless they were weighted), which puts him at 584.9 Gs. He couldn't move but he could maintain altitude.

In the meantime, in All-Star Superman, Lex Luthir stole a serum designed to give Lois Lane Kryptonian powers for a day and adapted it for his own use. During his fight with Superman, Supes hit him with a gravity gun. Lex experienced greater difficulty flying.

Specifically, fifty times greater difficulty. So assuming that "one times difficulty flying" equals 1 G, then just-as-strong-as-Superman Lex Luthor capped out at 50 Gs.

The movie was more generous. There, it took 500 Gs to make Lex plummet out of the sky.

And Goku can take more, in Base and after a tiring workout of indeterminate length.

[fadeddreams5]

Goku weighs 137 lbs

Is this legit? I weigh 140, I'm 5'7, I work out, and I'll tell you...I do not look like this:

Spoiler:

or this:

Spoiler:

The man is clearly 5'8-5'10 and 170+lb.