How much powerful would the humans be if they went in ROSAT?

[Dayspring]

I maintain that they wouldn't get any stronger, because they'd be dead. I've seen nothing to convince me that they would be capable of surviving in enhanced gravity.

Well all the humans on Kaio's world survived 10 times gravity.

They didn't survive anything. They were dead.

Those were their actual bodies, though. If their bodies can't be crushed to pulp by 10Gs, then it's safe to say they wouldn't have died from having been crushed to pulp by 10Gs. Meanwhile, Tenshinhan did use the ROSAT, which is 10Gs as well, except under extreme weather conditions. DB logic is that if you're strong enough, you can withstand intense gravity. Not sure why we have to assume that's wrong in DB's World because that's not how it works in real life. It's also impossible be anywhere near as strong in real life as we see in the DB World.

[dbgtFO]

They didn't survive anything. They were dead.

Those were their actual bodies, though. If their bodies can't be crushed to pulp by 10Gs, then it's safe to say they wouldn't have died from having been crushed to pulp by 10Gs. Meanwhile, Tenshinhan did use the ROSAT, which is 10Gs as well, except under extreme weather conditions. DB logic is that if you're strong enough, you can withstand intense gravity. Not sure why we have to assume that's wrong in DB's World because that's not how it works in real life. It's also impossible be anywhere near as strong in real life as we see in the DB World.

He's going to argue, that dead bodies =/= living bodis and there's nothing that can be done to disprove him.
Also Tenshinhan didn't train in the RoSaT. He declined, knowing it wouldn't make a difference against Cell.

[DBZAOTA482]

I'm all for pointing out flawed logic and inconsistencies but I can't believe you would take Dragon Ball 100% seriously.

[ekrolo2]

Let's say, during the Cell Games wait... Tenshinhan and Krillin went in the ROSAT for 2 years, followed by Krillin and Chiaotzu for 2 years. How much more powerful do you think they'll get? They could also bring in weighted clothing and some Capsules that contain a gravity room that can go up to 400x Earth's gravity.

I don't think it'd benefit them too much, as Tenshinhan wasn't interested in it. And he's the most training focused of all the humans.

I believe it was more of a case of Tien knowing that he's pretty outclassed and even intense training wouldn't be able to help him bridge the gap more than him doubting he'd be able to do the actual training itself.

[Dayspring]

They didn't survive anything. They were dead.

Those were their actual bodies, though. If their bodies can't be crushed to pulp by 10Gs, then it's safe to say they wouldn't have died from having been crushed to pulp by 10Gs. Meanwhile, Tenshinhan did use the ROSAT, which is 10Gs as well, except under extreme weather conditions. DB logic is that if you're strong enough, you can withstand intense gravity. Not sure why we have to assume that's wrong in DB's World because that's not how it works in real life. It's also impossible be anywhere near as strong in real life as we see in the DB World.

He's going to argue, that dead bodies =/= living bodis and there's nothing that can be done to disprove him.
Also Tenshinhan didn't train in the RoSaT. He declined, knowing it wouldn't make a difference against Cell.

I thought he just gave priority to the others and went in once everybody else was done (meaning, when they used up their maximum amount of ROSAT time)?

[Man-Child]

Edit: Ah, my mistake.

[Tyro]

I thought he just gave priority to the others and went in once everybody else was done (meaning, when they used up their maximum amount of ROSAT time)?

Chapter: 390 (DBZ 196), P14.4
Piccolo (to Goku): “Then use the Room of Spirit and Time again. We’ve got the time. We just decided on the order: I’ll go first, then Vegeta will enter alone…And then Trunks…You two can enter again after that.”
Tenshinhan: “Sorry...But I pass…He’s absolutely not an opponent I could fight…”

As for this dead body argument we'll be hearing soon: has there ever been a statement made about how dead bodies differ from living bodies? You can't starve to death and you don't age are things that come to mind. And as far as I'm aware, the only extra tidbit ever mentioned is that the Super Saiyan 3 was so amazingly powerful that it ate up a lot of Goku's "time".

[AM Reflection]

Yeah, I also think that they've all peaked. They've already long gone beyond the limits of normal humans, but they are still human in the end. The extra time wouldn't matter. Tenshinhan had been away training for seven years when he showed up against Boo. We don't know exactly how much different he was then compared to during the Cell saga, but it wasn't portrayed as if he underwent any significant change. The only thing that could possibly improve their fighting ability is if they were to learn some type of new technique, but I don't think the humans can become any more "powerful" in terms of strength or speed.

[Kamiccolo9]

be crushed to pulp by 10Gs, then it's safe to say they wouldn't have died from having been crushed to pulp by 10Gs. Meanwhile, Tenshinhan did use the ROSAT, which is 10Gs as well, except under extreme weather conditions. DB logic is that if you're strong enough, you can withstand intense gravity. Not sure why we have to assume that's wrong in DB's World because that's not how it works in real life. It's also impossible be anywhere near as strong in real life as we see in the DB World.

Actually, as I said to dbzfan, I'm ok with their bodies becoming strong enough to withstand the gravity. That's a strength issue. No problems there.

I'm bringing up other biological functions, like eating, pumping blood, breathing, and other stuff. Stuff that training doesn't do anything to. Saiyans are biologically built to survive higher gravities and Namekians have enhanced healing powers. Earthlings, on the other hand, aside from shooting lasers and flying, don't seem to be any different than they are in real life.

So, until I actually see one surviving in enhanced gravity, I'm just gonna go with real life logic and assume they can't.

[Angelus]

Of course the humans can survive in that environment. Post-22nd WMAT Goku went in the ROSAT before and couldn't last a month in there. How weak is this Goku in comparison to the Cell Games humans? Yet he survived and stayed alive in there for less than a month.

[In Brightest Day]

Of course the humans can survive in that environment. Post-22nd WMAT Goku went in the ROSAT before and couldn't last a month in there. How weak is this Goku in comparison to the Cell Games humans? Yet he survived and stayed alive in there for less than a month.

Bingo.

Unless you are of the opinion that surviving the RoSaT has more to do with mental toughness
than your battle power, in which case I'd ask the question: "why couldn't either Krillin, Tenshinhan or Yamcha survive in there for year?"

And then I'll gladly explain why you're wrong.

[Kamiccolo9]

Of course the humans can survive in that environment. Post-22nd WMAT Goku went in the ROSAT before and couldn't last a month in there. How weak is this Goku in comparison to the Cell Games humans? Yet he survived and stayed alive in there for less than a month.

Goku's a Saiyan.

[In Brightest Day]

Of course the humans can survive in that environment. Post-22nd WMAT Goku went in the ROSAT before and couldn't last a month in there. How weak is this Goku in comparison to the Cell Games humans? Yet he survived and stayed alive in there for less than a month.

Goku's a Saiyan.

As if it matters, but nice fan-theory anyway.

[Kamiccolo9]

Of course the humans can survive in that environment. Post-22nd WMAT Goku went in the ROSAT before and couldn't last a month in there. How weak is this Goku in comparison to the Cell Games humans? Yet he survived and stayed alive in there for less than a month.

Goku's a Saiyan.

As if it matters, but nice fan-theory anyway.

You're free to disagree with me if you want, but it'd be nice if you'd provide evidence that actually supports your viewpoint. At least I made an effort to back my theory up.

[In Brightest Day]

Saying "Goku is a Saiyan" isn't reasoning. It's just an abstract statement.

[Kamiccolo9]

Saying "Goku is a Saiyan" isn't reasoning. It's just an abstract statement.

Which if you've paid any attention to my previous posts in this thread, is referring to my assertion that since Goku is a completely different species than the Earthlings, and is in fact a member of a species biological predisposed to higher levels of gravity than Earthlings, any feats by Goku are irrelevant when discussing what the Earthlings are capable of.

[In Brightest Day]

Yeah, but you responded to Angules' post when it had nothing to do with you, which would imply you are trying to assert your view as fact when everyone here has read/watched the series enough times to know your view is a total fan-theory. The point being: Move along.

[Pantalones]

Gohan, Goten, and Trunks are all half-human and their biological functions didn't seem to be having a harder time working in 10x gravity than the pure Saiyans.

Namekians are not from a high-gravity world. There is no reason for them to be adapted to higher gravity like the Saiyans would be. And yet, Piccolo's biological functions don't seem to have a harder time with high gravity than the Saiyans. Namekians have also been depicted as being more fragile than a Saiyan of the same power level, much like humans... lots of holes punched through or arms severed in situations where a Saiyan of the same power level probably wouldn't have taken quite so much damage. Yeah, it's partly so they can show off their regeneration, but the damage still happens and Piccolo can't regenerate his head... so if 10x gravity would be enough to screw up the blood flow to his brain he wouldn't be able to survive 10x gravity. Of course, he's shown to be able to survive 10x gravity, so we know that a strong enough Namekian can even though Namekians aren't a species that's adapted to living on a high gravity world.

Plus, the Saiyans can train up to 100x or 300x gravity even though they're only naturally "built for" 10x gravity. By humans-can't-handle-gravity logic, Saiyans shouldn't be able to survive 100x gravity because they're only adapted to 10x... going up to 100x from there is exactly the same amount of increase as humans going from Earth's gravity to 10x would be. And yet the only reaction we get out of the humans in high gravity is Yamcha's "man, I feel heavy, it's kinda hard to run here!" on Kaio's planet, with absolutely no indication that he'd be randomly dead for no good reason if he hadn't been... already dead (but in his body) at the time.

Literally nobody who's been shown exposed to 10x gravity has been depicted as unable to handle it due to their body's physiology. It's not just Saiyans who have been shown to handle higher gravity. Being able to survive gravity beyond Earth's is not a special Saiyan trait--they just have a little bit of a head start in terms of adjusting to levels 10x and up compared to everyone else.

And aside from all those reasons why the humans, or at least those with high power levels, should be able to do gravity training... the series already screws over the humans enough as it is. The last thing they need is fans throwing 10x SCREW-YOU-KENS like this "you can't survive higher gravity even when you're strong enough to smash mountains apart with your pinky finger because... well, in REAL LIFE me and my PL 5 buddies would get squished by that much gravity, and we're the same species as you guys, so there!" stuff at them on top of that.

If you want to use the "humans can't survive gravity" argument, it can only apply to humans who have no knowledge of increasing their body's inherent strength through ki, like Mr. Satan. THAT is the area in which Saiyans and Namekians and Freeza's race and so on have a built-in advantage--all of them seem to pick up on the most basic level of ki enhancement naturally, being able to fire blasts and fly and so on like it's something they just naturally know how to do (heck, Saiyans and various aliens in Freeza's army can fire ki blasts and fly without knowing how to even sense ki, without knowing it's possible to suppress ki or flare it to higher levels, and so on.) Humans have to train and learn it.

====

But yeah, back on topic... I think Krillin, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha were all in the low millions by the Cell Games anyway (Krillin and Tenshinhan more than Yamcha, of course... Yamcha might have only been barely in the low millions), and if they had trained in the heightened gravity and other harsh conditions of that room for a year-day or two it would have definitely given them a pretty significant boost. King Kai's training presumably was a bigger boost to Tenshinhan and Yamcha (...and maybe Chiaotzu?) than it was to Goku, going by the pattern set by the humans' gains during Kami's training vs. the gains Goku made, so if that pattern holds up they'd all come out of there pretty damn strong.

Of course, as Tenshinhan already said, even that would be nowhere near enough to make a difference against Perfect Cell. I can see them surpassing the Android Saga/Cell Games base Saiyans for sure (they might already be close to the weaker Cell Games base Saiyans; the 9th movie seems to think base Trunks and Tenshinhan aren't far apart, at least, and that's way closer to official than the "weaker than Ginyu FOREVER!" fan-belief you see around here) and maybe getting close to 50% Freeza, though. Tenshinhan and Krillin possibly even a bit stronger than that if they're lucky, but they're never going to catch up to the Super Saiyans outside of the possibility of an old Kaioshin style "all of your dormant power and way, waaaaay beyond" potential-unlocking technique, or if they trained this much and then learned how to effectively use high-end Kaio-ken levels. And even then they wouldn't be able to catch up with the Super Saiyans, because even if they surpassed the Freeza/Android saga Super Saiyans somehow... they'd still fall far short of the Cell saga/Cell Games/Buu saga Super Saiyans anyway, not to mention SSj2 and SSj3 and so on.

[Saiga]

Yeah, but you responded to Angules' post when it had nothing to do with you, which would imply you are trying to assert your view as fact when everyone here has read/watched the series enough times to know your view is a total fan-theory. The point being: Move along.

You are doing nothing but repeating that it is a fan theory without any actual argument as to why it is so.

I also thing you're reading way too into his post. Angelus' post didn't involve Kamiccolo, but it involved the thread... where Kamiccolo had already posted his theory, and Angelus should have already read it.

Actually on second glance DEFINITELY reading too much into it. Angelus used Goku to prove something about humans. Kamiccolo pointed out Goku isn't human. This doesn't mean anything as outlandish as Kamiccolo is asserting his view as fact, it's simply pointing out that you can't use Goku to prove something about a species he is not a member of.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I maintain that they wouldn't get any stronger, because they'd be dead. I've seen nothing to convince me that they would be capable of surviving in enhanced gravity.

I think they would survive. They are already super-humans that can tank things stronger than bullets, and even destroy planets, and don't forget that the RoSaT is created for the Earthlings.