What are your personal Fan theories?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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The Monkey King
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Re: What are your personal Fan theories?

Post by The Monkey King » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:30 pm

Goku's overuse of the kaio-ken put so much stress on his heart that it made it weak enough to be suseptible to the heart virus that killed him.

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Re: What are your personal Fan theories?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:33 pm

Piccolo is stronger than Kaioshin.

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Re: What are your personal Fan theories?

Post by FoolsGil » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:01 am

Tenshinhan + Kikoho = Poor Man's Piccolo.

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Re: What are your personal Fan theories?

Post by Captain Space » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:23 am

Since Frieza mentioned his third form had never been seen by his enemies before, and some of his henchmen knew about the second, that implies some extremely powerful enemy had once made him use his second form in battle before.

Combine this with the fact that he says he didn't think anyone (outside his family) in the universe had surpassed Captain Ginyu; the fact that Ginyu probably isn't in his original body if his teammates know he can change; the fact that both Frieza's family and Ginyu are said to be "powerful mutants"; and that Ginyu's current body looks oddly similar to Frieza's race (horns and colouration, mainly)...

We get this theory: One of Frieza's family had a half-breed child with some member of another race. That child became rebellious and came to blows with Frieza, overpowering his first form and forcing him to use his second. The battle ended when Captain Ginyu changed bodies with the half-breed (this being the purple body Ginyu appears in when we meet him in the Frieza arc). When Ginyu steals a body, he can't use its full power, so despite the half-breed's power presumably being greater than 530,000, Ginyu only ever managed to get up to 120,000 or thereabouts.

(This explains why Frieza didn't think anyone else had surpassed Ginyu, despite having had to use his second form before, which would otherwise be a bit odd.)
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Re: What are your personal Fan theories?

Post by NitroEX » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:56 am

Android 17 and 18's character flaws were inherited by Cell which gave him a laid back cocky attitude and poor decision making. Their teenage craving for fun also rubbed off on Cell which caused him to make sloppy decisions like sparing people and crafting the Cell games. Basically their integration clouded his judgement and ultimately led to his demise.

Some people say it's just his saiyan cells causing it but I think my theory is far more interesting.

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Re: What are your personal Fan theories?

Post by ZazamPow » Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:16 am

NitroEX wrote:Android 17 and 18's character flaws were inherited by Cell which gave him a laid back cocky attitude and poor decision making. Their teenage craving for fun also rubbed off on Cell which caused him to make sloppy decisions like sparing people and crafting the Cell games. Basically their integration clouded his judgement and ultimately led to his demise.

Some people say it's just his saiyan cells causing it but I think my theory is far more interesting.
Each of Cell's forms had a personality which corresponded with his rival at the time.

Imperfect - Sneaky, cunning, and calculating like Piccolo.
Semi-Perfect - Brash and pompous like Vegeta, and they both used the same tactic against each other ("if you want to test your full power, let me transform/use my Final Flash!")
Perfect - Laid back and wants to fight strong opponents like Goku.
Super Perfect - Hotheaded and angry/excited.

Although that is just from a thematic standpoint. In-universe, your theory about 17 and 18 causing his personality changes makes perfect sense.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:I swear, the Gohan fanboys won't be happy unless he just bends over and farts all of Freeza's men into the sun.
fadeddreams5 wrote: Honestly, this would only make me slightly satisfied. To make me happy, he'd also have to grab Freeza by the tail, drag him to the nearest toilet, and give him swirlies until he submits and calls him "daddy."

Gohan deserves it.

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Re: What are your personal Fan theories?

Post by Deathbringer » Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:26 am

This is actually from a comment that Lanipator made on the TFS Xenoverse playthrough but the reason Captain Ginyu keeps Guldo around is because he can freeze enemies in place for Ginyu to easily change bodies with them. (although I think this actually happened in Xenoverse so it's not really a theory it's almost fact at this point)

I like the theory mentioned above about Captain Ginyu's real body and really, who knows what his original body was? He seems fine about leaving his previous body behind after he stole Goku's body so maybe he's basically a spirit that just keeps travelling around in different bodies whenever he sees a strong one that he likes the look of.

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Re: What are your personal Fan theories?

Post by Captain Space » Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:32 am

Deathbringer wrote:This is actually from a comment that Lanipator made on the TFS Xenoverse playthrough but the reason Captain Ginyu keeps Guldo around is because he can freeze enemies in place for Ginyu to easily change bodies with them. (although I think this actually happened in Xenoverse so it's not really a theory it's almost fact at this point)

I like the theory mentioned above about Captain Ginyu's real body and really, who knows what his original body was? He seems fine about leaving his previous body behind after he stole Goku's body so maybe he's basically a spirit that just keeps travelling around in different bodies whenever he sees a strong one that he likes the look of.
Thanks! Yeah, given how nonchalant he was about leaving the purple body behind in exchange for Goku's, it seemed likely to me that he's changed a few times in the past without thinking much of it.
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Re: What are your personal Fan theories?

Post by Dayspring » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:16 pm

Captain Space wrote:Since Freeza mentioned his third form had never been seen by his enemies before, and some of his henchmen knew about the second, that implies some extremely powerful enemy had once made him use his second form in battle before.

Combine this with the fact that he says he didn't think anyone (outside his family) in the universe had surpassed Captain Ginyu; the fact that Ginyu probably isn't in his original body if his teammates know he can change; the fact that both Freeza's family and Ginyu are said to be "powerful mutants"; and that Ginyu's current body looks oddly similar to Freeza's race (horns and colouration, mainly)...

We get this theory: One of Freeza's family had a half-breed child with some member of another race. That child became rebellious and came to blows with Freeza, overpowering his first form and forcing him to use his second. The battle ended when Captain Ginyu changed bodies with the half-breed (this being the purple body Ginyu appears in when we meet him in the Freeza arc). When Ginyu steals a body, he can't use its full power, so despite the half-breed's power presumably being greater than 530,000, Ginyu only ever managed to get up to 120,000 or thereabouts.

(This explains why Freeza didn't think anyone else had surpassed Ginyu, despite having had to use his second form before, which would otherwise be a bit odd.)
Freeza said he fought his father at some point and won. Most likely that was when he transformed.

Which brings me to my next theory:

-King Cold has a Battle Power under 1,000,000 (assuming he never trained to get stronger). The people who sense it don't consider it ridiculously big like Freeza's, just really big compared to most people. The only exception is Tenshinhan, but he's never experienced a BP as great as his own at that point (meaning he was dead when Vegeta hit 18,000, was at Kaio's when he surpassed it himself, and hasn't sensed anybody at full strength since). This makes Tenshinhan's reaction unreliable.

Speaking of Tenshinhan:

-I believe he has a "Shin Kaioken" but just never got the chance to use it. He spent about 265 days at Kaio's and implied he was going to build upon the strengths of Kaio's training, after all.
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Re: What are your personal Fan theories?

Post by Captain Space » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:45 pm

Dayspring wrote:
Freeza said he fought his father at some point and won. Most likely that was when he transformed.

Which brings me to my next theory:

-King Cold has a Battle Power under 1,000,000 (assuming he never trained to get stronger). The people who sense it don't consider it ridiculously big like Freeza's, just really big compared to most people. The only exception is Tenshinhan, but he's never experienced a BP as great as his own at that point (meaning he was dead when Vegeta hit 18,000, was at Kaio's when he surpassed it himself, and hasn't sensed anybody at full strength since). This makes Tenshinhan's reaction unreliable.

Speaking of Tenshinhan:

-I believe he has a "Shin Kaioken" but just never got the chance to use it. He spent about 265 days at Kaio's and implied he was going to build upon the strengths of Kaio's training, after all.
I don't think Frieza ever said that...all I recall him saying is that his parents were the only one before Goku to make him feel pain in his final form. I think Cold also said Frieza was "the strongest in the universe" (or Frieza said it and Cold didn't disagree), but again, final form.

I mean, if I've just forgotten a line...yeah, that's entirely possible.

I was gonna dispute your theory about Ten, but actually that seems pretty plausible. He was trying to hold Cell off for as long as possible, so a Kaioken-like technique would've just drained his energy faster, so no reason he'd use it if he was already successfully keeping Cell down. And he wasn't (barring anime padding, though I did quite like that scene in the anime) up against Buutenks long enough that he'd necessarily have used it if he had it.
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Re: What are your personal Fan theories?

Post by Dayspring » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:40 pm

Captain Space wrote:
Dayspring wrote:
Freeza said he fought his father at some point and won. Most likely that was when he transformed.

Which brings me to my next theory:

-King Cold has a Battle Power under 1,000,000 (assuming he never trained to get stronger). The people who sense it don't consider it ridiculously big like Freeza's, just really big compared to most people. The only exception is Tenshinhan, but he's never experienced a BP as great as his own at that point (meaning he was dead when Vegeta hit 18,000, was at Kaio's when he surpassed it himself, and hasn't sensed anybody at full strength since). This makes Tenshinhan's reaction unreliable.

Speaking of Tenshinhan:

-I believe he has a "Shin Kaioken" but just never got the chance to use it. He spent about 265 days at Kaio's and implied he was going to build upon the strengths of Kaio's training, after all.
I don't think Freeza ever said that...all I recall him saying is that his parents were the only one before Goku to make him feel pain in his final form. I think Cold also said Freeza was "the strongest in the universe" (or Freeza said it and Cold didn't disagree), but again, final form.

I mean, if I've just forgotten a line...yeah, that's entirely possible.

I was gonna dispute your theory about Ten, but actually that seems pretty plausible. He was trying to hold Cell off for as long as possible, so a Kaioken-like technique would've just drained his energy faster, so no reason he'd use it if he was already successfully keeping Cell down. And he wasn't (barring anime padding, though I did quite like that scene in the anime) up against Buutenks long enough that he'd necessarily have used it if he had it.
The specifics are that Freeza tells Goku only his parent has ever managed to get him dirty (context being in a fight). In other words, the only fight that ever involved any actual paying attention was when Freeza fought his father. If you notice, Freeza isn't hurt at all when he says this to Goku, so that implies he easily won the fight against his dad. If the transformation was necessary to win the fight, then that's when it would have been used.

Nobody had ever seen Freeza's third and final form before, not just the third one. People try to retcon things by saying Cold saw his final form and that it's his original, but that's not necessary for Freeza's statement about transforming to conserve energy to be true. It just means that, unlike the SSJ stages, he can maintain his transformations indefinitely if he wants to. It's just not smart for him to do so.

As for my theory on Tenshinhan, I'm of the belief that he basically would have invented the regular humans' answer to Namek-style fusions and SSJ transformations: he creates a kaioken-like technique that doesn't have the same drawbacks as regular kaioken.
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Re: What are your personal Fan theories?

Post by Captain Space » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:07 pm

Dayspring wrote:
The specifics are that Freeza tells Goku only his parent has ever managed to get him dirty (context being in a fight). In other words, the only fight that ever involved any actual paying attention was when Freeza fought his father. If you notice, Freeza isn't hurt at all when he says this to Goku, so that implies he easily won the fight against his dad. If the transformation was necessary to win the fight, then that's when it would have been used.

Nobody had ever seen Freeza's third and final form before, not just the third one. People try to retcon things by saying Cold saw his final form and that it's his original, but that's not necessary for Freeza's statement about transforming to conserve energy to be true. It just means that, unlike the SSJ stages, he can maintain his transformations indefinitely if he wants to. It's just not smart for him to do so.

As for my theory on Tenshinhan, I'm of the belief that he basically would have invented the regular humans' answer to Namek-style fusions and SSJ transformations: he creates a kaioken-like technique that doesn't have the same drawbacks as regular kaioken.
Eh, I'm pretty sure it's canon that Frieza was born in his 'final' form, so it's a safe bet Cold saw that one. In any case it doesn't require a retcon, since the only time he mentions people not seeing a form is when he goes to 3rd form, he says "You are the first ever to see this!" Unless, again, I've forgotten a line, I don't believe he says any such thing of his final form.

Not to mention, the fact that Frieza isn't hurt at all from Goku's attack says nothing of his parents doing just as little damage, he only says that they did get him dirty or cause him pain or whatever; there's no further comparison made. He was probably much younger at the time, anyway (I mean, I always thought one could also interpret "abusive parenting" rather than "fight" from that line myself) so it's probably not a good indicator of, well, anything really.

The Tenshinhan thing--I actually think him having regular Kaioken or a technique of his own with the same drawbacks makes more sense. If he invented a technique with no Kaioken drawbacks, he'd have used it against Cell and Buu.
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Re: What are your personal Fan theories?

Post by Duo » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:13 pm

I like to believe that Tenshinhan learned the Kaio-ken and combined it with his Kikoho...creating the Shin Kikoho used against Cell.

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Re: What are your personal Fan theories?

Post by Dayspring » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:42 pm

Captain Space wrote:
Dayspring wrote:
The specifics are that Freeza tells Goku only his parent has ever managed to get him dirty (context being in a fight). In other words, the only fight that ever involved any actual paying attention was when Freeza fought his father. If you notice, Freeza isn't hurt at all when he says this to Goku, so that implies he easily won the fight against his dad. If the transformation was necessary to win the fight, then that's when it would have been used.

Nobody had ever seen Freeza's third and final form before, not just the third one. People try to retcon things by saying Cold saw his final form and that it's his original, but that's not necessary for Freeza's statement about transforming to conserve energy to be true. It just means that, unlike the SSJ stages, he can maintain his transformations indefinitely if he wants to. It's just not smart for him to do so.

As for my theory on Tenshinhan, I'm of the belief that he basically would have invented the regular humans' answer to Namek-style fusions and SSJ transformations: he creates a kaioken-like technique that doesn't have the same drawbacks as regular kaioken.
Eh, I'm pretty sure it's canon that Freeza was born in his 'final' form, so it's a safe bet Cold saw that one. In any case it doesn't require a retcon, since the only time he mentions people not seeing a form is when he goes to 3rd form, he says "You are the first ever to see this!" Unless, again, I've forgotten a line, I don't believe he says any such thing of his final form.

Not to mention, the fact that Freeza isn't hurt at all from Goku's attack says nothing of his parents doing just as little damage, he only says that they did get him dirty or cause him pain or whatever; there's no further comparison made. He was probably much younger at the time, anyway (I mean, I always thought one could also interpret "abusive parenting" rather than "fight" from that line myself) so it's probably not a good indicator of, well, anything really.

The Tenshinhan thing--I actually think him having regular Kaioken or a technique of his own with the same drawbacks makes more sense. If he invented a technique with no Kaioken drawbacks, he'd have used it against Cell and Buu.
Freeza is referring to beyond his second form. While that certainly includes his third form, it would also include his fourth. Anyway, agree to disagree, I suppose.
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Re: What are your personal Fan theories?

Post by Captain Space » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:32 pm

I can indeed agree to disagree, and I see why one would interpret it that way.
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Re: What are your personal Fan theories?

Post by FoolsGil » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:55 pm

But of course the best fan theories are written by ficcers. I got one from Honor Trip-

King Kai's involvement with the Z Fighters is only based around his students. It's against the rules to meddle in mortal affairs otherwise. Fan Theory is, Since in the Mirai Timeline all of King Kai's students are dead, it would be wrong for King Kai to communicate to Bulma, and give the coordinates for New Namek.

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