Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
SSJ Future Trunks (Pre-ROSAT, Androids Saga) with two swords VS Fifth Form Cooler, 100% Mecha Freeza, King Cold, Chilled, Kuriza, and Freeza's mother (no blowing up of planets)
I say trunks loses. Yes he defeated mecha frieza and king cold. But I believe frieza became weaker then. And king cold wasn't as strong as frieza. However we don't know how powerful frieza mum is. All we know is that frieza mentioned that only ones to ever get dust on him were his parents. So I assume his mum is near his power or the same as him at his "1%" form. I say quotations because I don't think he was using 1%. Prob using 20-30% he prob bluffing. But I say she is about that level. And well cooler had issues with a post- namek saga base form goku. And even in his fifth form he was still powerless to goku. I don't know kuriza power level. Being a joke character. But if he has a final form he obviously is almost as powerful king cold. Safe bet. And chilled was thrashed by a ssj bardock. Who we can safely assume he was 10,000 power level before being sent back into time. Now let's take on factor a zenkai boost. Since he almost died. And he is gokus father. So it's safe to say he would get a good boost from it. Idk what he would get. But if I was being über generous. I will give him 50,000. So if he goes super Saiyan and which is 50x ur base form. Which is 2,500,000. Which is about frieza third form. And chilled got wrecked. So I think chilled has a power level of 400,000-1,500,000. Around there. So he has the power level of frieza first or second form. Still nothing.
However cooler is big dog here. We have to remember goku is stronger then trunks. And cooler supposely takes place during the 3 year gap to android saga. So once again goku would have became even more stronger. I have to say that no.trunks would lose. He would have a problem against cooler. The rest wouldn't be much of an issue. But cooler would finish him. Barely.
SSJ Future Trunks (Pre-ROSAT, Androids Saga) with two swords VS Fifth Form Cooler, 100% Mecha Freeza, King Cold, Chilled, Kuriza, and Freeza's mother (no blowing up of planets)
Trunks wins. This turns into a one sided slaughterfest
SSJ Future Trunks (Pre-ROSAT, Androids Saga) with two swords VS Fifth Form Cooler, 100% Mecha Freeza, King Cold, Chilled, Kuriza, and Freeza's mother (no blowing up of planets)
The Ice family all beat the shit outta Trunks while Freeza quivers in the corner waiting for the big, bad Super Saiyan to go away.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
The way I see it is that Shisame's level would be between Piccolo's and Gohan's, just like Kaioshin was in the Boo Arc. Though one could argue we don't have more than the information that Gohan defeated him to base on.
Daizenshuu 7 states that the Supreme Kai possesses strength "far superior to the Super Namekian Piccolo". Piccolo himself say that Kaioshin is dimensions apart from him.
So...
Kaioshin >>>>>> Kamiccolo (Majin Boo arc)
Kaioshin one shots.
So, your opinion is that, despite Shisame being stronger than Piccolo, Kaioshin is a lot more far from his level? Okay. What about Shisame vs Cell Jr.? The diference between the Cell miniatures and Piccolo doesn't seem to be so great.
SSJ Future Trunks (Pre-ROSAT, Androids Saga) with two swords VS Fifth Form Cooler, 100% Mecha Freeza, King Cold, Chilled, Kuriza, and Freeza's mother (no blowing up of planets)
Future Trunks stomps all of them.
Hugo Boss wrote:So, your opinion is that, despite Shisame being stronger than Piccolo, Kaioshin is a lot more far from his level? Okay. What about Shisame vs Cell Jr.? The diference between the Cell miniatures and Piccolo doesn't seem to be so great.
Shisame isn't stated to be stronger than Piccolo. Shisame was stated be a strong as Zarbon and Dodoria.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
First Form Hirudegarn VS Fat Buu (Pre-Split)-- no candybeam
25th WMAT Videl VS Mamba (Dragon Ball GT: A Hero's Legacy)
Fifth Form Cooler VS Manga SSJ Future Gohan (when he had two arms)-- no blowing up of planets
Transformed Zarbon VS Great Apes Tora, Shugesh, Borgos, Gine, Fasha, younger Raditz, and infant Goku (All have full control of their forms and cooperate with each other)--no tail-cutting/grabbing
Drum VS 23rd WMAT Yajirobe with sword and Saiyan armor on
Who's Shishame?
Berserker1921 wrote:Now let's have a good battle here. If it's been done forgive me.
Bojack vs super perfect cell vs movie 10 broly vs darbura.
Oh yeah it's been done a lot... except they usually put in Movie 8 Broly. Because this is Movie 10, Bojack and Dabura gets slaughtered by Broly, unless Dabura spits. If Dabura spits, then SPC would slaughter the rest. Otherwise, this becomes an SPC VS Broly match. I'm not sure where I got the info, whether it was on a movie pamphlet or a guide or something but I remember that piece on info being: Broly was the most powerful Saiyan in Movie 10 (take note, Goku didn't turn SSJ3 in movie 10). With that, Broly wins, after a difficult fight.
Last edited by Angelus on Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lord Beerus wrote:Shisame isn't stated to be stronger than Piccolo. Shisame was stated be a strong as Zarbon and Dodoria.
If I remember correctly Shisame defeated Piccolo and was defeated by Super Saiyan Gohan, no? Though if he really is stated to be at 20,000~30,000 range, it might be an inconsistence. In that case, you probably have him at Ginyu's level (after he changed bodies with Goku).
Lord Beerus wrote:
Shisame isn't stated to be stronger than Piccolo. Shisame was stated be a strong as Zarbon and Dodoria.
No, the word used to describe him on the same level as Zarbon and Dodoria can also be used to indicate rank, loyalty, competency, etc. People just see "like Zarbon," and immediately jump to assume power levels.
I searched for a "Power Level" thread and one of the results was this page. So I really hope this is the right place to discuss Gohan and multipliers.
ok everyone is upset over the lack of Ultimate Gohan, but Ultimate form puts Gohan at his absolute best right? So wouldn't transforming into a SS and/or SS2 increase his Ultimate strength? So Ultimate Son Gohan is stronger than pre BoG Goku and Gotenks, so than SS would bring Gohan to, I don't know Base Vegeto level and SS2 equal SS1 Vegeto? I'm throwing out random guesses. Which! Would give Son Gohan SS4 level strength! (I recall a guide saying SS1 Vegeto and SS4 level are equal)
Which in turn would mean SS God level is stronger than SS4 level. Where Blue SS God fits in all of this? Clearly stronger than BoG SS God level but the summary by Julian doesn't exactly make it clear whether Golden Freeza was equal to "Blue-Kun" or not.
Thoughts everyone?
"Good luck, Kakarrot... You are the Champion!!" Vegeta DBZ ShonenJump Manga Volume 26 p.113
Angelus wrote:First Form Hirudegarn VS Fat Buu (Pre-Split)
25th WMAT Videl VS Mamba (Dragon Ball GT: A Hero's Legacy)
Fifth Form Cooler VS Manga SSJ Future Gohan (when he had two arms)-- no blowing up of planets
Transformed Zarbon VS Great Apes Tora, Shugesh, Borgos, Gine, Selypa, younger Raditz, and infant Goku (All have full control of their forms and cooperate with each other)--no tail-cutting/grabbing
Drum VS 23rd WMAT Yajirobe with sword and Saiyan armor on
- Fat Buu turns Hirudegarn into candy
- Mamba uses her hair to strangle Videl
- Future Gohan dominates Cooler
- Transformed Zarbon one shots all of the Great Apes
- Drum one shots
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
SSJ Future Trunks (Pre-ROSAT, Androids Saga) with two swords VS Fifth Form Cooler, 100% Mecha Freeza, King Cold, Chilled, Kuriza, and Freeza's mother (no blowing up of planets)
Cooler solos. He was able to take some hits from post-Yardrat Goku, and nearly kill him in their beam struggle. SS Trunks, on the other hand, couldn't do jack shit to a weaker Goku's finger.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
In the manga,when trunks goes ssj against freeza,gohan yells,its dad its the same size ki as on namek.
So that would mean that ssj trunks(pre second return from future) is around ssj goku's level as he was on namek.Makes sense since post yadrat goku managed to stop his block with one finger and while freeza may have gotten a big stronger due to his mech parts,you need to remember that non buffed freeza was a joke to ssj goku,so even if he got a bit stronger hed still be easily killed.
Now a fight:
Raditz vs 1 Saibamen ^^
1:He cant use great ape form
2:he's allowed to use great ape form,but can he pull it off without a moon?
Base:
1. 100% Freeza
2. SS Trunks (Trunks saga)
3. Piccolo (Android saga)
4. Android #18
5. Android #16
Super Saiyan:
1. SS Vegeta (pre-Majin)
2. Perfect Cell
3. SS2 pre-Majin Vegeta
4. SS2 Kid Gohan
5. SS2 Goku (Buu saga)
Super Saiyan 2:
1. SS2 Vegeta (pre-Majin)
2. SPC
3. SS2 Goku (Buu saga)
4. Good Buu
5. Pure Evil Buu
Gohan hits a brick wall against SS2 pre-Majin Vegeta
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Sandubadear wrote:Super Saiyan 4 Broly vs. Golden Evolution King Cold, Freeza and Cooler
Golden Evolution King Cold, Freeza and Cooler take this.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
