The Cold Empire

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:54 pm

So instead of doing a lab report that will get me a pizza if it's done this afternoon, I'm going to put forth this area of discussion!

What was it like in Freeza's Galactic Empire, before and after his defeat?

I got the feeling that the military class was basically the privaleged-but-not-upper class in the empire, and that some planets may have been convinced that they were brought into stability under Freeza's rule.

After thinking on this some, I also figure there was this class of "retired nobility", you might say-- like, the old kings and generals and whathaveyou that were powerful, but got out of the conquering business and just... hung out with other nobles and... had tea and played hunting games and stuff. King Cold would have been in this class.

If we consider Coola/Cooler (Urm... I can't decide how to spell it...

) canon, then there seems to be a distinct difference between his and Freeza's role. Freeza was clearly the ruler and active leader of the empire, or at least the bulk of its forces and such, while Cooler seemed to be like, a military leader, though he seemed to be independent from Freeza. Seems sort of like the relationship between the Castro brothers, only not as close.

And... who were those people watching the Freeza Goku battle energies on a Suupa Scouter Delux! (Yes... Suupa and Scouter don't make sense together... it... was a joke... a bad one...)

According to the dub, one of them said something like "There are only two kinds of people in the universe: Those that serve Freeza, and those who oppose him.". That suggests (although I don't use this as the basis for the idea) that maybe the generals and regional governors of Freeza's empire might have maintained power after Freeza's defeat, or maybe kept his death a secret from the planets under their control. While others might have turned against one another and stuff. Agh... *is tempted to write the fanfic for which many notes have been taken... would rather it was, if nothing else, a cheap novice cartoon*.

So... what do you people think of it? Ur, not the fanfic or the martial conspiracy... but... everything else?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:56 pm

I liked the bits in the Garlic Jr. Saga where Vegeta's going around killing off Freeza's soldiers just for the hell of it. Only good bits of that saga.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:00 pm

Heh. I based a fanfic character on one of the races he encountered... ^^. Again, the only thing I particularly liked from that Saga. And Some of Faulkner's music was good in that saga (mainly just Garlec Jr and the Deadzone).

The dub said that those guys were loyal followers of Freeza who were surprised at Vegeta's attack and Vegeta said they started the fight... is this just a Garlec Jr translation butcher?

... wow, that sentence sucks.s

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:02 pm

I always figured Kooler and Freeza were vaguely on the same side, that is, being under their father, but competed between each other at the same time as much as they could without becoming outright enemies.

goku 333 · Post by **goku 333** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:10 pm

It seems that even tough Freeza was the ultimate ruler, Cooler still might have had his own part of the galaxy to rule over and control (as we see in the beginning of movie 5, when he is sitting on what seems like a throne). On the other hand Cooler might of just been an assassin who just killed for the fun of it.
In either case I am sure that Cooler did have power in Freeza’s empire but stayed clear of Freezas armies (like two kings in the old days). Coolers flashback in movie where he remembers letting Son Goku fly of to earth suggests that he douse not want to get involved with his brother.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:24 pm

Actually, I always thought that there was no "civilization" to speak of. Cold and Freeza just went around taking over planets to bolster their ranks. The thing I can't figure out is 'why'.

It can't be money, even if some kind of galactic currency existed, Cold and Freeza were far too powerful to be bothered with it. They could show up and take whatever they wanted.

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:07 pm

Its simply a quest for power. They know that nobody can stop them, so why not take what they want? What I want to know is: Did the "clan" know that the gods feared their power? If so, that would be a good reason why Freeza is so damn arrogant (before Goku goes Super Saiyan of course).

-Rick

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:09 pm

desirecampbell wrote:Actually, I always thought that there was no "civilization" to speak of. Cold and Freeza just went around taking over planets to bolster their ranks. The thing I can't figure out is 'why'.

It's just because they're evil! EeEeEevil!!!

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:26 pm

Come to think of it, when Kaioshin was describing Buu's power while everyone was chasing after Spopovich and Yamu, didn't he reference Freeza when describing the power of the Dai Kaio?

Interesting ideas... If the Cold family didn't need to breathe in space, were all of the fancy ships and things simply for long distance travel with minimal energy expenses?
The Cold family... *imagines a Mafia with King Cold as the Dawn*

Post by **desirecampbell** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:45 pm

caejones wrote:Come to think of it, when Kaioshin was describing Buu's power while everyone was chasing after Spopovich and Yamu, didn't he reference Freeza when describing the power of the Dai Kaio?

Interesting ideas... If the Cold family didn't need to breathe in space, were all of the fancy ships and things simply for long distance travel with minimal energy expenses?
The Cold family... *imagines a Mafia with King Cold as the Dawn*

That'd be "Don". But we already know who the Don is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUcYJi03nNQ

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:39 am

cajones wrote:Come to think of it, when Kaioshin was describing Buu's power while everyone was chasing after Spopovich and Yamu, didn't he reference Freeza when describing the power of the Dai Kaio?

He did. He mentioned that he and the other three Kaio were of such strength that any one of them could have defeated "the likes of Freeza" in a single blow.

cajones then wrote:Interesting ideas... If the Cold family didn't need to breathe in space, were all of the fancy ships and things simply for long distance travel with minimal energy expenses?

Well . . . that, and there's also that the vast majority of their servants could not breathe in space.

Maphisto86 · Post by **Maphisto86** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:12 am

mAcChaos wrote:I always figured Kooler and Freeza were vaguely on the same side, that is, being under their father, but competed between each other at the same time as much as they could without becoming outright enemies.

Yeah I thought the same thing. I always liked Coola so I think he should have existed in the normal continuity. The movie could have fit into the canon if it where not for Goku being unable to transform into SSJ at will. Anyway I too thought that Coola and Freeza where under their father's thumb but had a chunk of the galaxy for themselves to rule over. My geuss is either the remanants of King Cold's empire split into factions, and where either ruled by warlords and wiped each other out, the forces where destroyed at least partially by Vegeta's trek through space (hey he did train to become a Super Saiyan), where ruled by a single warlord or where freed by Goku and Trunk's actions.

The only hints we really get are filler from the Garlic Jr saga or tidbits from the movies. For instance in Movie 8 when Paragus introduces Vegeta to his soldiers you can see some henchmen in typical "saiyan/planet trade" armor amongst the purple armored soldiers (especially in one shot behind Trunks).

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:45 am

And randomly coming to mind is Neko Majin Z... which, if it's to be taken as canon (which ... most don't take it as?), then Kuriza and Onio would have been, like, out in the middle of nowhere for a while in order to be in the Post Buu time and believe that Vegeta still worked for Freeza...

Maphisto86 · Post by **Maphisto86** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:35 am

caejones wrote:And randomly coming to mind is Neko Majin Z... which, if it's to be taken as canon (which ... most don't take it as?), then Kuriza and Onio would have been, like, out in the middle of nowhere for a while in order to be in the Post Buu time and believe that Vegeta still worked for Freeza...

Yeah..... Neko Majin Z is TOTALLY canon

. Yeah no such thing as Onio who looks like Supa Man. Kuriza.... doubt it too since he was also a gag character

.

johnny139 · Post by **johnny139** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:15 pm

OK, here we go!

Before, Freeza was a rich and powerful man... thing... Anyways, though he had only spread throughout the Northern Quadrant, he was feared. Conquering planets for fun, then tricking the people of the planets into beliving he was better than their former leaders, since he was quite charismatic. I bet his shiny-ness didn't hurt either.

Now, Kold wasn't an active member. He was the founder of Freeza Co. (as I will now call it), but handed it over to Freeza, who obviously liked it much more than Kold did. So he lived in the lap of luxory, you know, mooching off his son's work. Nice guy, eh?

Freeza is at the top of the heirarchy. Well, here's a chart of the industry's inner workings:

(Ginyu is supposed to be right below Freeza)

So, beneath Freeza there are three main branches: Saiyajins, Minions, and the Ginyu Force.

Sayajins, being fairly simple-minded, were easy for Freeza to bend to his will. Afterwards, they formed the backbone of his army. To put it into "Chess Board Logic" (CBL), they were pawns. Until, however, they went kaboom. Which leads me to their replacements...

The minion branch is composed of Upper and Lower halfs. Lets start with the lower half. Using CBL, they are pawns, once co-exsisting with the Sayajins, but now replacing them completely as expendable, low cost soldiers. Now, onto the Upper Minions. Zarbon, Dodoria, Cui, and what was left of the Saiyajins are good examples of this branch. CBL places them as Knights, Bishops, and Rooks in the heirarchy. Directly beneath Freeza, and all unique in power, they are mroe specialized troops. This leaves two pieces left on the board.

The King and Queen. Now, Freeza is obviously the King, in his hover chair form at least, which leaves The Ginyu Force and Kold. As I've said, Kold doesn't activly participate. So the Ginyu Force are all that are left. They are able to single-handedly decimate planets, and are more powerful than most (emphasis here) Upper Class Minions. They act as one, and are Special-Ops units. You know, just in case.

After the fall of Freeza, he was quickly rebuilt and promptly defeated, along with his father. The Ginyu Force and most of his upper class units were gone. I'd assume that Freeza Co. disbanded, leaving the few men left to go their sperate ways, now free of their cruel leader. Maybe they stayed together, forming a group of Mercenaries or something. However, only a fraction of the Lower Class Minions were probably left (a few hundred, maybe?). So they slowly fell below the radar, disappearing by the end of the Cell Saga.

So... that's about it. Any questions?

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:21 pm

I have a question - how can you make any kind of Cold Empire hierarchy that just brushes off the existance of Coola?!

johnny139 · Post by **johnny139** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:29 pm

Deus ex Machina wrote:I have a question - how can you make any kind of Cold Empire hierarchy that just brushes off the existance of Coola?!

Well, the fact his exsistance contradicts my vision of canon kinda helps.

Coola is the second movie villain I want to be canon. Him and Tullence. However, that's just me. I'm sure the others have their own ideas.

But, if he were to be canon, I belive he would probably be an outsider. Freeza took over the family buisness, and Coola would have went off to do his own thing. However, he'd probably check up on his litter brother every once in a while.

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:12 pm

Coola brings down Freeza's "stock", imo. He makes Freeza look like the annoying little sibling.. the Goten if you will. I like to think Cold was stronger than Freeza and the system worked like:

-King Cold
-Freeza & Coola (different areas of the universe)
-Ginyu Force & Coola's men
-Zarbon & Dodoria
-Kiwi
-Appule
-Other

I also see the "clan" as the mafia. They are feared because of their power. The authorities (kaios) know of them, but they chose to stay away from Freeza and his family.

-Rick

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:14 pm

Deus ex Machina wrote:how can you make any kind of Cold Empire hierarchy that just brushes off the existance of Coola?!

Well, if you're talking about the manga... Rather easily? ^^;

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:54 pm

Rocketman wrote:I liked the bits in the Garlic Jr. Saga where Vegeta's going around killing off Freeza's soldiers just for the hell of it. Only good bits of that saga.

I always figured he was encountering them during his search for Goku and it was them that engaged him in battle first. I suspected that Freeza's Empire would have put out a sort of "bulletin" about Vegeta. Basically that he was a traitor to Freeza and the empire and was a "wanted man".