What are the power levels gt characters on a scale

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

He says "now have" the greatest of saiyan power, meaning before he transformed, he didn't have the greatest of saiyan power, but before he transformed, he wal already the strongest existing Saiyan, meaning Vegetto was the only one left to surpassed.

[GTx10]

Apparently, Chozenshu 4 places them in the same timeline.

So you use a guidebook to back you up than ask why folks use a guidebook??

technically (loosely mind u) BoG, and RoF would not stop GT from existing. SS4 is a radically different transformation that it could surpass God form and Blue form. (I believe a guide claims SS1 Vegeto and SS4 are equal. Making God and Blue stronger then SS4 level. Does that apply to Gogeta? Idk) SS4 has little to no drawbacks so perhaps its technical aspects make it useful. Plus GT Son Kun can't use IT unless he's got his adult body. Maybe his God powers went the same route as his IT technique?

[Tectorman]

He says "now have" the greatest of saiyan power, meaning before he transformed, he didn't have the greatest of saiyan power, but before he transformed, he wal already the strongest existing Saiyan, meaning Vegetto was the only one left to surpassed.

Mmmmmmm... Sorry still no.

If he went from "already the strongest existing Saiyan but only by a margin" to "already the strongest existing Saiyan but by a much larger margin", that would still be plenty reason to say "now have", without him actually surpassing Super Vegetto.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I ask why people use a guidebook when it's contradicted by a direct statement from a character in GT.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

He says "now have" the greatest of saiyan power, meaning before he transformed, he didn't have the greatest of saiyan power, but before he transformed, he wal already the strongest existing Saiyan, meaning Vegetto was the only one left to surpassed.

Mmmmmmm... Sorry still no.

If he went from "already the strongest existing Saiyan but only by a margin" to "already the strongest existing Saiyan but by a much larger margin", that would still be plenty reason to say "now have", without him actually surpassing Super Vegetto.

that doesn't make sense. He wasn't the greatest of Saiyan power before he transformed, but he was after. He had to surpass someone, otherwise he would've had the greatest of saiyan power before transforming

[Tectorman]

He says "now have" the greatest of saiyan power, meaning before he transformed, he didn't have the greatest of saiyan power, but before he transformed, he wal already the strongest existing Saiyan, meaning Vegetto was the only one left to surpassed.

Mmmmmmm... Sorry still no.

If he went from "already the strongest existing Saiyan but only by a margin" to "already the strongest existing Saiyan but by a much larger margin", that would still be plenty reason to say "now have", without him actually surpassing Super Vegetto.

that doesn't make sense. He wasn't the greatest of Saiyan power before he transformed, but he was after. He had to surpass someone, otherwise he would've had the greatest of saiyan power before transforming

If you're going from a tenuous grasp on ultimate power to an unassailable chokehold on ultimate power, it's less about how you compare with others and more about the security of your power.

Before he transformed, he was the strongest existing Saiyan, but not by enough of a margin to guarantee victory no matter how a particular fight played out. After he transformed, he was still the strongest existing Saiyan, but now he cannot conceive of losing even if he tried. This doesn't have to touch on the theoretical Vegetto to be true.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

That's completely twisting the statement

Baby Vegeta "I now have the greatest of Saiyan power!"

Key Word: NOW

Super Baby 1 > previous greatest of Saiyan powers > base Baby Vegeta > Goku > every other currently existing Saiyan

[Tectorman]

No, I just think it's not reading more into the statement than need be.

But even if we insist on that, who says Baby was referring to Vegetto?

Super Vegetto (all-time greatest of Saiyan powers, but not extant, so not in consideration)
Baby Vegeta
Adult Goku with working SSJ3, just prior to GT beginning (previous extant greatest of Saiyan powers)
Previous Baby Vegeta
current Kid Goku with faltering SSJ3
Every other Saiyan

[Dayspring]

That's completely twisting the statement

Baby Vegeta "I now have the greatest of Saiyan power!"

Key Word: NOW

Super Baby 1 > previous greatest of Saiyan powers > base Baby Vegeta > Goku > every other currently existing Saiyan

I am willing to agree that this statement means Super Baby 1 (why is he called that, by the way? Why isn't it just "Super Baby Vegeta" or something along those lines?) is the strongest currently existing Saiyan. However, if Vegeta and Goku exist separately, it means Gogeta and Vegetto do not. Therefore, the statement doesn't apply to either Gogeta or Vegetto's Battle Powers.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

No, I just think it's not reading more into the statement than need be.

I'm not reading more into the statement than need be, you're just blatantly disregarding it.

But even if we insist on that, who says Baby was referring to Vegetto?

Because there were no other Saiyans to be surpassed?

Baby was shown to get the memories of the person he's infested in, so logically when he's infested inside of Vegeta, he would have Vegeta's memories of being Vegetto, the same way Goten and Trunks had memories of being Gotenks, and were able to tell how strong their fusion was.

So my question:

-He was already the strongest existing Saiyan, so why add the now part? Why can't he just say "I have the greatest of Saiyan powers!". Why does he "now" have the greatest of Saiyan powers if he was already the strongest currently existing Saiyan?

The now would indicate he didn't have the greatest of Saiyan powers prior to his transformation.

I am willing to agree that this statement means Super Baby 1 (why is he called that, by the way? Why isn't it just "Super Baby Vegeta" or something along those lines?) is the strongest currently existing Saiyan. However, if Vegeta and Goku exist separately, it means Gogeta and Vegetto do not. Therefore, the statement doesn't apply to either Gogeta or Vegetto's Battle Powers.

Vegetto not existing wouldn't mean he's excluded from the statement.

Even though he didn't exist, he still held the record for having the greatest Saiyan power.

[Pantalones]

"I now have the greatest of Saiyan power" sounds like generic villain boasting to me, not some kind of clear power statement. He's just bragging that he's managed to power himself up even more using the Saiyans' power to trigger transformations mirroring Super Saiyan. "The greatest of Saiyan power" = the greatest power/ability possessed by the Saiyan race, which would be access to their higher transformations.

Isn't the Super Saiyan 4 supposed to be on the same level as Super Vegito whereas Super Saiyan God would be stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Vegito?

Yeah... going by that, SSj4 Goku shouldn't be anywhere near SSj God Goku's 6 (at least upon his initial appearance; the later version and especially the "beyond limits" version from the end may be a bit different.)

So, assuming that SSj God Goku is beyond any form of Goku/Vegeta fusion (so a "6" is 8x SSj Vegerot's level or higher) and SSj Vegerot is around the same level as SSj4 Goku when he first transformed into that form (or even a bit stronger than that SSj4 Goku), I'd say something like...

SSj4 Goku: Less than 0.75 (first transformation); possibly a tiny bit higher vs. Super 17 and Shadow Dragons; probably a good bit higher (maybe as high as 2 or 3?) when "beyond limits"
SSj4 Vegeta: About even with whatever level Goku is at at the time
Bebi-Vegeta: Less than initial SSj4 Goku (any form; the only difference is just how far below that point he is)
Super 17: Less than 0.75 to begin with; maybe in the 1 to 2 range after absorbing so much energy
Syn Shenron: Stronger than regular SSj4 Goku, weaker than "beyond limits" version. Maybe somewhere in the 1 to 2 range like powered-up Super 17.
Omega Shenron: Hard to say, but... since the SSj4s even fighting together didn't seem to have a chance against him, he should be significantly higher than the 2 or 3 that "beyond limits" SSj4 Goku might have. Brushing up on SSj God Goku's 6, making him the only GT villain who could put up a fight against the Battle of Gods characters.
SSj4 Gogeta: Again, hard to say... but if Omega is around a 6 it would probably be safe to put SSj4 Gogeta in the 10+ territory. I'll tentatively give him a 12. Probably even higher, considering that the gap between him and Omega seems a lot bigger than the gap between Omega and the SSj4s. He's the only GT character I can see as having a possibility of being clearly stronger than Beerus and Whis, anyway.

Of course... that's all assuming SSj God Goku is only slightly stronger than a hypothetical SSj3 Vegerot. If you go on the assumption that SSj God is further beyond that level, the GT numbers are going to shrink even lower. Alternatively, if you figure that SSj God Goku is only clearly stronger than SSj Vegerot and not the hypothetical SSj2 and SSj3 forms, there's a possibility of Omega and SSj4 Gogeta being far beyond Beerus and Whis's level.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

People are missing the key word...

"Power! I ---NOW--- have the greatest of Saiyan power!"

He didn't have the greatest of Saiyan power before transforming, but before transforming, he was already stronger than Goku, who was stronger than every other existing saiyan at that point.

Super Vegetto was the only Saiyan left to be surpassed.

The lengths people go to keep Vegetto relevant in GT is so baffling...

[Duo]

Maybe this belongs in another thread, but...

Is there any sort of reliable way to compare GT characters to the God characters?

Beerus so far outstrips everybody around him that none of his fights provide any meaningful context for how much stronger he is than, say, Super Saiyan 3 Goku. On top of that, GT is frighteningly inconsistent with some of the claims it makes in relationship to power, so it's hard to figure it all out.

I've seen a lot of talk comparing Super Saiyan 4 Goku to Vegetto. My GT knowledge is limited to one viewing of the dub over ten years ago, so I'd like to ask where this information comes from. Goku says in the extended cut of BoG that fusion probably wouldn't be enough against Beerus, so that data thread is about the only basic thing to try and go on in comparing these characters.

The basic question of this thread is to scale the powers of GT characters, like Toriyama did with the God characters, right? If I recall correctly, Goku says Rildo is stronger than Majin Buu. Which Buu was he talking about?

[Hellspawn28]

That's completely twisting the statement

Baby Vegeta "I now have the greatest of Saiyan power!"

Key Word: NOW

Super Baby 1 > previous greatest of Saiyan powers > base Baby Vegeta > Goku > every other currently existing Saiyan

With the new material we have now, I would say that Goku's statement on Bebi's Ki and Bebi having the greatest Saiyan power is no longer relevant. Same with Goku's comment of Buu being the strongest foe at the end of manga since Freeza in ROF is stronger then any form of Cell and Buu.

[singsing]

To use Instant Transmission, you have to be able to sense your target (or your target has to be next to someone you can sense). Goku and Beers were way up in Earth orbit with no one else around, and he pulled an IT speed blitz on Beers before he unleashed a Kamehameha that Beers was able to take.

Therefore, Goku could at least sense Beers.

So you're saying Goku can be like "Okay, IT 3 meters and 2 centimeters northwest 58 degrees behind Beerus, and then IT again 5 meters 6 centimeters south of Beerus"? It's more likely you can use IT when you've been to that area before/can literally see the area.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Apparently, Chozenshu 4 places them in the same timeline.

It also includes things like DBZ Movie 1, DBZ Movie 5 and the events from Trunks' timeline. Just because the timeline tells you what year events take places it doesn't mean that they share a continuity.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

That's completely twisting the statement

Baby Vegeta "I now have the greatest of Saiyan power!"

Key Word: NOW

Super Baby 1 > previous greatest of Saiyan powers > base Baby Vegeta > Goku > every other currently existing Saiyan

With the new material we have now, I would say that Goku's statement on Bebi's Ki and Bebi having the greatest Saiyan power is no longer relevant. Same with Goku's comment of Buu being the strongest foe at the end of manga since Freeza in ROF is stronger then any form of Cell and Buu.

How does that make Super Vegetto stronger than Super Baby 1?

[Hugo Boss]

I've seen a lot of talk comparing Super Saiyan 4 Goku to Vegetto. My GT knowledge is limited to one viewing of the dub over ten years ago, so I'd like to ask where this information comes from. Goku says in the extended cut of BoG that fusion probably wouldn't be enough against Beerus, so that data thread is about the only basic thing to try and go on in comparing these characters.

The basic question of this thread is to scale the powers of GT characters, like Toriyama did with the God characters, right? If I recall correctly, Goku says Rildo is stronger than Majin Buu. Which Buu was he talking about?

Apparently, there is an anime comic from the GT TV Special (the one where Goku Jr. appears) that describes Son Goku's forms and lists that "...Merging with Vegeta!" is "...Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!". I believe it is where that information comes from. If we join the pieces of information it works like "...Merging with Vegeta" probably won't do any good against Beerus. So, on a scale Beerus would be the strongest among them if we have gotten a SS4 in Battle of Gods.

I believe Goku was talking about Fat Boo in that instance, since this is the Boo the GT cast is most familiar with, specially Pan. It's commonly accepted that before the GT series Goku without SS3, fusion or SSGod would most likely be weaker than any of Boo's forms though.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I've seen a lot of talk comparing Super Saiyan 4 Goku to Vegetto. My GT knowledge is limited to one viewing of the dub over ten years ago, so I'd like to ask where this information comes from. Goku says in the extended cut of BoG that fusion probably wouldn't be enough against Beerus, so that data thread is about the only basic thing to try and go on in comparing these characters.

The basic question of this thread is to scale the powers of GT characters, like Toriyama did with the God characters, right? If I recall correctly, Goku says Rildo is stronger than Majin Buu. Which Buu was he talking about?

Apparently, there is an anime comic from the GT TV Special (the one where Goku Jr. appears) that describes Son Goku's forms and lists that "...Merging with Potara" is "...Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!". I believe it is where that information comes from. If we join the pieces of information it works like "...Merging with Vegeta" probably won't do any good against Beerus. So, on a scale Beerus would be the strongest among them if we have gotten a SS4 in Battle of Gods.

I believe Goku was talking about Fat Boo in that instance, since this is the Boo the GT cast is most familiar with, specially Pan. It's commonly accepted that before the GT series Goku without SS3, fusion or SSGod would most likely be weaker than any of Boo forms though.

So in other words, it can just mean

Potara Boost >= SS4 boost

and not necessarily SS Vegetto (Buu saga) >= SS4 Goku?

[singsing]

iirc it was specifically comparing SSJ Vegetto (considering it was a picture of him from Buu Saga) to SSJ4 Goku, who was the only SSJ4 at the time.