Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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SSJ2FutureGohan
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:13 am

I really wouldn't even call it a "debate". More just like denial.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:34 pm

GT !!!!Image

Super Buu (ref.): 4,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks (ref.): 4,800,000,000,000,000
Fantastic Gohan (ref.): 6,000,000,000,000,000
Gotenks-Buu (ref.): 8,800,000,000,000,000
Gohan-Buu (ref.): 10,000,000,000,000,000
Super Vegetto (ref.): 288,000,000,000,000,000
Spoiler:
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by johnboy1 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:22 pm

Herms wrote:But what I really came here for is to ask about is Japanese DB battle power fansite extraordinaire Chou-Koshiki ("Super Official"). It's a site that aims to be as thorough as humanely possible both with the sources it looks at (manga, anime, guides, video games, Carddass, etc), and with the scope of things it assigns speculative battle powers for (that mermaid Goku brings to Kame House, the average Yardratian, etc). Someone asked over in the translation thread about the possibility about getting the entire site translated, and the short of it is that there's probably not enough money or drugs to make me. So I thought maybe I could just do a general overview, just translating the character names/forms and the numbers...but that's probably the sort of thing you could just do with Google Translate, which makes me think someone probably has done it already.
For what it's worth, I'm making a simple list in English of the major characters and their respective battle powers by trying to untangle the Google translation. I'll post it here when I'm done.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Pantalones » Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:50 pm

I like to think that any time Tenshinhan does something with his Shin Kikoho, Krillin would've done better with his Kienzan.
...yeah... right... a cutting attack (which is completely incapable of causing any permanent harm to someone with Cell or especially Buu level regeneration regardless of the level of power behind it... unless maybe you're just that far beyond Cell/Buu's level, in which case just using normal explode/disintegrate type blasts would make way more sense than using cutting attacks even if cutting attacks might actually work coming from someone at that level) would somehow accomplish more against the super-regenerators than Shin Kikoho would.

Regardless of your opinion on Krillin vs. Tenshinhan in terms of raw power, thinking the Kienzan would somehow accomplish more against Cell or Buu than the Shin Kikoho would is just ridiculous. The two attacks are so drastically different that the "which bald human is stronger?" question becomes completely irrelevant when you're comparing the effectiveness of their signature moves.

I can't imagine a situation where Krillin rapid-firing Kienzans would succeed in holding Cell down as long as Tenshinhan did with Shin Kikohos. One of the primary traits of the Kikoho is that it's basically invisible, covers a wide area, and is super hard to dodge... while Kienzans are very much dodgeable (easily dodgeable, even) if you see or hear them coming. Krillin could've cut Cell once with a surprise attack, but then Cell would've regenerated right away and flown up at Krillin while swerving around to avoid a rain of Kienzans through the air before punching Krillin once and knocking him out instantly. Shin Kikoho was most definitely a better attack for the job in this situation.
Against Buu the situation is better for Krillin if he had to take Tenshinhan's place -- all he has to do is intercept Buu's blast with an attack of his own -- but even then, Kienzan wouldn't accomplish anything more than Shin Kikoho, they'd just do about the same thing (except with more accidental property damage in Krillin's case, since I figure the Kienzan would cut Buu's blast into two smaller blasts that would go flying off in random directions and blow up some poor, unsuspecting mountains nearby. If the blast didn't just explode on contact with the Kienzan and cancel them both out, anyway.)

Now, if you're comparing Kienzan vs. regular Kikoho during the Saiyan and Freeza sagas when nobody that Krillin/Tenshinhan could end up fighting was able to regenerate? Yeah, Kienzan would definitely be more useful in almost every situation--we saw that with Nappa, the Kienzan could've killed or mortally wounded him (without exhausting or killing Krillin in the process) while a one-handed Kikoho didn't accomplish nearly that much with a direct hit (though it's hard to say how much more effective a two-handed Kikoho would've been; maybe that might have at least done some significant damage rather than just wrecking Nappa's armor and killing Tenshinhan from the strain.) Same way with Freeza--the best he could do was dodge, because the Kienzan was capable of cutting him if he didn't, while Tenshinhan probably wasn't anywhere near powerful enough at that point to hurt him with a Kikoho (after North Kaio training, and especially after pre-Android training and developing Shin Kikoho... that's another story entirely. But if Tenshinhan had been revived and brought to Namek like Piccolo was? No way he'd be able to do a thing against Freeza. Probably not even if he'd had his potential unlocked like Krillin did.)
But not so much anymore in the Cell/Buu sagas when the Kikoho is upgraded to Shin Kikoho and all the main villains can effortlessly recover from being chopped in half.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:10 am

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:GT !!!!Image

Super Buu (ref.): 4,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks (ref.): 4,800,000,000,000,000
Fantastic Gohan (ref.): 6,000,000,000,000,000
Gotenks-Buu (ref.): 8,800,000,000,000,000
Gohan-Buu (ref.): 10,000,000,000,000,000
Super Vegetto (ref.): 288,000,000,000,000,000
Spoiler:
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:06 am

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't stamina and ki essentially the same?
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by rereboy » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:36 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't stamina and ki essentially the same?
Not really. Stamina is just physical endurance.

For example, I imagine that kid Goten could be evenly match with an adult SSJ, but he would lose because as the fight went on, since he is a kid, he would have less stamina/endurance and get tired sooner.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:28 pm

rereboy wrote:
DBZAOTA482 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't stamina and ki essentially the same?
Not really. Stamina is just physical endurance.

For example, I imagine that kid Goten could be evenly match with an adult SSJ, but he would lose because as the fight went on, since he is a kid, he would have less stamina/endurance and get tired sooner.
They seem to go pretty go hand-in-hand to me. Goku vs. Tenshinhan or Goku vs. Cell are examples of that.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:49 pm

KentalSSJ6 wrote:You have Base GT Goku in the trillions? Thats abit much dont you think? At the most id put him at 40 billion.
I work backwards from Planet M2, since Base Goku (M2) > Rild > Buuhan, and since I have Buuhan that high, I'm forced to put Goku that high.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by johnboy1 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:18 am

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
KentalSSJ6 wrote:You have Base GT Goku in the trillions? Thats abit much dont you think? At the most id put him at 40 billion.
I work backwards from Planet M2, since Base Goku (M2) > Rild > Buuhan, and since I have Buuhan that high, I'm forced to put Goku that high.
I always figured he was comparing Rild to Fat Buu (i.e. the weakest form Goku had encountered) in order to minimize bullshit like this.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:03 am

johnboy1 wrote:
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
KentalSSJ6 wrote:You have Base GT Goku in the trillions? Thats abit much dont you think? At the most id put him at 40 billion.
I work backwards from Planet M2, since Base Goku (M2) > Rild > Buuhan, and since I have Buuhan that high, I'm forced to put Goku that high.
I always figured he was comparing Rild to Fat Buu (i.e. the weakest form Goku had encountered) in order to minimize bullshit like this.
Goku should be well above Fat Buu by this point, and was only slightly stronger than Rild.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by rereboy » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:11 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote: They seem to go pretty go hand-in-hand to me. Goku vs. Tenshinhan or Goku vs. Cell are examples of that.
See 100% Freeza versus SSJ Goku. Freeza managed to overpower Goku in a couple of moves (like for example his Kamehameha) but then he started losing because his stamina gave out and Goku specifically mentioned that.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:23 am

Nothing implies Rildo is stronger than Buuhan. We got Base GT Goku > Z SSJ3 Goku which means he's stronger than Kid Buu at most. To say Rildo is above Buuhan is a rather ludicrous bloating.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:39 pm

Although Rild was stronger than Gohan, who the Perfect Files claimed didn't neglect his training... and we know Pure Buu is fodder to Ultimate Gohan.

Rild > GT Gohan > Ultimate Gohan >>>>>>>>>>>>> Pure Buu
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:59 pm

Where do you guys have Goku after losing SSJG (6)?
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Blackstripe » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:50 pm

Hmmm...

Since everyone feels so adamant about it here, I did some reconsideration about Kuririn and Tenshinhan to see if I could make it work in a way that made any plausible sense beyond "Toriyama said so!", which has never been good enough for me. I prefer going by feats, myself, which Kuririn is decidedly lacking overall. But I digress. What I've come up with is this:

Kuririn is weaker than Tenshinhan in the Saiyan Saga. We know this based on the scouter readings of Nappa and Vegeta. When we get to Namek, that's likely still the case until Kuririn gets his big power up from the Grand Elder. It's said to unlock his hidden potential. I imagine it couldn't unlock all of Gohan's simply because he had so much, and the Grand Elder's ability to draw it out was limited. That, however, was probably when Kuririn surpassed Tenshinhan. Assuming it continued to grow after his initial boost (which he used to fight Guldo), it could place him a fair deal beyond Ten. Kuririn did continue to train into the Cell Saga, too, and we don't know when exactly he stopped training after it.

When considered in this fashion, I suppose it could make some modicum of sense. One wonders why Kuririn didn't try and be more useful, though, by creating more advanced techniques that might allow him to contribute.

You know. Like Tenshinhan did.

That being said, I'll propose this as an alternative:

Cell Saga:

Kuririn - 112,000

Tenshinhan - 88,200

Buu Saga:

Kuririn - 100,000 (Probably did train a bit before the tournament, since #18 wanted to win the prize money).

Tenshinhan - 98,500

Battle of Gods

Kuririn - 68,000

Tenshinhan - 135,000

Because Toriyama's quote, I do believe, predates BoG. Anything set after that quote doesn't matter. :lol:

And no, don't try and use "10 Years Later" because the canonicity of that is now in question, given how it presents Gohan and the others vs the movies.
Last edited by Blackstripe on Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:53 pm

Why would you put Krillin at only ~40,000 in the Cell arc? By even the Freeza fight, he should be a lot higher than that.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Blackstripe » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:58 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Why would you put Krillin at only ~40,000 in the Cell arc? By even the Freeza fight, he should be a lot higher than that.
Why? What has he shown that puts him above that?
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:06 pm

With Krillin that low, Gohan is certainly talking out of his ass and Vegeta is way out of character. Is Vegeta going to spare Krillin's feelings by complimenting his power when it's the equivalent of nothing?

V-Jump also places him at 75,000
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Blackstripe » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:07 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:With Krillin that low, Gohan is certainly talking out of his ass and Vegeta is way out of character. Is Vegeta going to spare Krillin's feelings by complimenting his power when it's the equivalent of nothing?

V-Jump also places him at 75,000
Ah, fair enough. It's been a while since I read the Frieza saga. Very well, I'll make him a bit higher.
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