So, about the Broly hate...

[DBZGTKOSDH]

He is about as strong as Cell and Dabra, which would make him very significant even in the Buu saga.

He is stronger than them, since Gohan could barely fight him.

[Kendamu]

Actually Broly does make an interesting 'dark' counterpart to Goku.

This is because they both take influence from Son Wukong, as Goku gets all the good stuff from Son Wukong's character such as the numbus and nyoi bo, Broly gets the bad things such as being exiled and having a painful power limiting headband. And while they are both OP like Wukong, Goku gets his power slowly at a rate he can manage while Broly gets it all at once and it drives him insane.

Kinda makes me feel bad for him.

That's a perspective I've never heard before! It's actually kind of neat and adds a layer to his character. He's still not this super amazing guy, but I could stand to watch his first two appearances again.

[Duo]

Actually Broly does make an interesting 'dark' counterpart to Goku.

This is because they both take influence from Son Wukong, as Goku gets all the good stuff from Son Wukong's character such as the numbus and nyoi bo, Broly gets the bad things such as being exiled and having a painful power limiting headband. And while they are both OP like Wukong, Goku gets his power slowly at a rate he can manage while Broly gets it all at once and it drives him insane.

Kinda makes me feel bad for him.

That's a perspective I've never heard before! It's actually kind of neat and adds a layer to his character. He's still not this super amazing guy, but I could stand to watch his first two appearances again.

I'm going to go ahead and say that is the most redeeming analysis' of Broli I've ever read. I'm gearing up for a re-viewing of all 13 films and that's going to be great to have in mind when the time comes.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Like some other people said here, if the Broly fanboys weren't being his big shlong-suckers and if Broly himself wasn't overexposed to the max, then there wouldn't be that much hate for him. Movie 11 and the AoTS(DAFUQ WERE THEY THINKING!) were unnecessary for him to appear. All of the other media he's appeared in, I really don't care. Cuz I am a Broly fanboy and I'm proud of it! Movie 8 is one of the best DBZ movies ever(though only with FUNi's version)! However, unlike the fanbase, I'm a reasonable one and know his limits while the fanbase thinks he's unstoppable.

After all it isn't just Broly who's getting overexposed, you also have a saiyan who in the actual series, all he did was get disintegrated by a meteor, yet he's been in most of the games too and there's no flak for him, cuz he's cool, right?

I still find Cell Games Gohan/Ultimate Gohan fanboys worse. They literally ONLY like him as an apathetic, cocky and arrogant idiot in his one-sided opening fights; but they hate every other aspect chi chi "ruined" in him.

[batistabus]

He has no personality. His motivation for hating Goku does not appeal to me in any way. Despite being uninteresting in the first film, they proceeded to make two more about him. Hell, I think Paragus is a much more appealing character....let's get more about him.

A large part of why I hate Broli so much is because of how annoying his fans are. They love him because they feel like he is the strongest character in DBZ, despite this being untrue. They love him for being "bad-ass", and I feel like this contributes to fans thinking DBZ is srsbusinesspunchypunchyrockthedragon. If this weren't a factor, I would just dismiss Broli as another harmless, albeit incredibly boring, DBZ movie villain that has no real impact on anything.

[jcogginsa]

He has no personality. His motivation for hating Goku does not appeal to me in any way. Despite being uninteresting in the first film, they proceeded to make two more about him. Hell, I think Paragus is a much more appealing character....let's get more about him.

A large part of why I hate Broli so much is because of how annoying his fans are. They love him because they feel like he is the strongest character in DBZ, despite this being untrue. They love him for being "bad-ass", and I feel like this contributes to fans thinking DBZ is srsbusinesspunchypunchyrockthedragon. If this weren't a factor, I would just dismiss Broli as another harmless, albeit incredibly boring, DBZ movie villain that has no real impact on anything.

He did have a personality in his first movie. Wasn't a particularly deep one but it was there

[Cipher]

Actually Broly does make an interesting 'dark' counterpart to Goku.

This is because they both take influence from Son Wukong, as Goku gets all the good stuff from Son Wukong's character such as the numbus and nyoi bo, Broly gets the bad things such as being exiled and having a painful power limiting headband. And while they are both OP like Wukong, Goku gets his power slowly at a rate he can manage while Broly gets it all at once and it drives him insane.

Kinda makes me feel bad for him.

Oh my god.

Why is this not discussed more often? Why am I just becoming aware of it?

You're totally right, obviously. Even his outfit is Sun Wukong-esque.

[batistabus]

He did have a personality in his first movie. Wasn't a particularly deep one but it was there

Broli is the worst Jekyll/Hyde archetype ever. His normal state is best described as "...", while his evil form is best described as "KAKAROTTO!!!!!" It's interesting that his base form is so pathetic and unassuming, but he doesn't ever do or say anything noteworthy. He literally just stands there and looks at the ground most of the time.

[jcogginsa]

He did have a personality in his first movie. Wasn't a particularly deep one but it was there

Broli is the worst Jekyll/Hyde archetype ever. His normal state is best described as "...", while his evil form is best described as "KAKAROTTO!!!!!" It's interesting that his base form is so pathetic and unassuming, but he doesn't ever do or say anything noteworthy. He literally just stands there and looks at the ground most of the time.

I would describe his Legendary form as more like "Less Manic Joker"

Broly is a character with untapped potential, in my mind

[fadeddreams5]

They love him because they feel like he is the strongest character in DBZ, despite this being untrue.

You cannot blame people for this. He's depicted as the closest thing to invincible in the series by Toei and video game developers.

- In his first movie, while he's not even in his LSSJ form, he does not flinch after getting a kick to the face by Vegeta. Also, he takes a point blank kamehameha by a MSSJ Goku, and... nothing. Nobody beats or matches him in 1v1 combat, so they use some deux ex bullshit they could have also done against Frieza, Cell, and Buu.

- In his 2nd movie, he takes a punch to the face by SSJ2 Gohan, and... again, nothing. No other villain in this series has displayed this sort of durability. Once again, no one can match his powers, so how does he lose? Goku's ****ing ghost comes to aid Gohan and Goten... somehow! It takes 4 v 1 in a beam struggle.

- In that one Budokai game, we see Broly and Gogeta fighting on par with one another.

- In various other video games, he's the super secret ultimate boss.

- And then there's trailers like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhgRdxHAiIs

Broly has never been bested by anyone. Not even in Bio Broly (fucking WATER). He has a veil of invincibility, and MORE potential than any other saiyan (who already have an absurd potential). Until he loses in a FAIR match, I believe he will always be the strongest in any movie he appears in. He'd make Beerus his pet cat if Toei's in charge.

[rereboy]

Actually Broly does make an interesting 'dark' counterpart to Goku.

This is because they both take influence from Son Wukong, as Goku gets all the good stuff from Son Wukong's character such as the numbus and nyoi bo, Broly gets the bad things such as being exiled and having a painful power limiting headband. And while they are both OP like Wukong, Goku gets his power slowly at a rate he can manage while Broly gets it all at once and it drives him insane.

Kinda makes me feel bad for him.

Oh my god.

Why is this not discussed more often? Why am I just becoming aware of it?

You're totally right, obviously. Even his outfit is Sun Wukong-esque.

Because Broly haters are just as bad as Broly fanboys .

But yeah, I didn't realize the Sun Wukong influence in his design. It's pretty neat. If we add that to the things I commented on previously about movie 8, we realize that it's indeed a pretty great movie, with its main flaw being not having more interesting action choreography.

[Lord Beerus]

Actually Broly does make an interesting 'dark' counterpart to Goku.

This is because they both take influence from Son Wukong, as Goku gets all the good stuff from Son Wukong's character such as the numbus and nyoi bo, Broly gets the bad things such as being exiled and having a painful power limiting headband. And while they are both OP like Wukong, Goku gets his power slowly at a rate he can manage while Broly gets it all at once and it drives him insane.

Kinda makes me feel bad for him.

Wow. That's... actually a really good theory. Hell, I've never noticed that before but when you think about it, it certainly seems very plausible.

[Eire]

Actually Broly does make an interesting 'dark' counterpart to Goku.

This is because they both take influence from Son Wukong, as Goku gets all the good stuff from Son Wukong's character such as the numbus and nyoi bo, Broly gets the bad things such as being exiled and having a painful power limiting headband. And while they are both OP like Wukong, Goku gets his power slowly at a rate he can manage while Broly gets it all at once and it drives him insane.

Kinda makes me feel bad for him.

Oh my god.

Why is this not discussed more often? Why am I just becoming aware of it?

You're totally right, obviously. Even his outfit is Sun Wukong-esque.

Because Broly haters are just as bad as Broly fanboys .

But yeah, I didn't realize the Sun Wukong influence in his design. It's pretty neat. If we add that to the things I commented on previously about movie 8, we realize that it's indeed a pretty great movie, with its main flaw being not having more interesting action choreography.

Srsly? Am I the only person who actually read Journey to the West?

[rereboy]

Srsly? Am I the only person who actually read Journey to the West?

Um... No, you are not? Missing things is normal in human beings, you know, even when they are pretty clear in hindsight. Not sure what your point is with your post.

[Eire]

That nobody here apart from some freaks read Four Classics, while in East Asia those stories are part of memetic background. There diadem controling being of power through pain (bonus point for being activated by guardian) just screams Sun Wukang, while in West this parallel is lost.

[rereboy]

That nobody here apart from some freaks read Four Classics, while in East Asia those stories are part of memetic background. There diadem controling being of power through pain (bonus point for being activated by guardian) just screams Sun Wukang, while in West this parallel is lost.

People are praising The Monkey King's post because they are aware of Journey to the West and what's in it. That's what allows them to realize that they missed the connection and that his post is correct. If people weren't aware of it and what's in it, that wouldn't happen, unless they researched it first. So... your logic isn't very strong.

(Not to mention that you would probably be more effective if you stated something like "it's a shame that not more people read those classics... maybe that way the connection would be clearer to more people" instead of what you said).

[Eire]

No, it wouldn't be. Not in a case when the most affordable edition is over 1200 pages of fine print in 4 volumes that can serve as a weapon in case of siege.
You see, people here are aware what Journey to the West is and know plot overview, but I strongly doubt that lots of people here had tried to read it as a whole, unless they are already interested in Chinese literature. Sure, it's great and epic and so on, but let's face it- it was written centuries ago in completely different culture. Without proper introduction it will be not only boring but lots of meaning will be lost. Not to mention that most of European translations are pain to obtain.
So instead of shaming anyone I'd tell that you can search for simplified versions and then, if you like it, try one of the English translations of full text.

[rereboy]

No, it wouldn't be. Not in a case when the most affordable edition is over 1200 pages of fine print in 4 volumes that can serve as a weapon in case of siege.
You see, people here are aware what Journey to the West is and know plot overview, but I strongly doubt that lots of people here had tried to read it as a whole, unless they are already interested in Chinese literature. Sure, it's great and epic and so on, but let's face it- it was written centuries ago in completely different culture. Without proper introduction it will be not only boring but lots of meaning will be lost. Not to mention that most of European translations are pain to obtain.
So instead of shaming anyone I'd tell that you can search for simplified versions and then, if you like it, try one of the English translations of full text.

Nothing in the The Monkey King's post requires a perfect knowledge of Journey to the West, just overall traits of Sun Wukong, the fact that he was exiled and that he had a head piece that restricted his power. I still don't see the need or the point in asking if you are the only one here that read it.

[Duo]

A few of us are impressed/intrigued by an observation we hadn't noted before (I became familiar with Journey to the West as an adult, long after I knew and disliked Broli), and your response seems to be condescent.

Spoiler:

I'm pretty much with everything rereboy has said on the matter so far.

[Eire]

You know, had I really wanted to be condescend I should go on with rereboy advice and start bragging how shameful is it that nobody here reads Four Chinese Classical Novels and doesn't make obvious connections. I was a bit surprised, because that was the only place in Internet I come across people who actually read enough to discuss more subtle plot parallels.