Why didn't anyone else ever bother learning the dodonpa?

[dougo13]

It's a trope like in every fighting game, anime or Chinese martial arts movie...the hero gets the special technique from his teaching master, secret manual or develops his own. It's his signature move and what he's best known for...

[Akira]

Being superior to the kamehameha it would have been pretty useful at times, particularly in SSJ2 Gohan's kamehameha struggle with SPC. If he fired a Super Dodonpa similar to Cyborg Tao, he likely could have overcome Cell more easily. Does everyone outside of Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu think techniques from the Crane School are beneath them or something?

Hardly the case at all, as the Crane School teaching was primarily focused on ki manipulation techniques, and increasing one's strength through their use. By comparison, the Turtle School method was focused primarily on increasing stamina and brute strength, lending incredible power to that school's one major ki technique, the Kamehameha. Goku and Krillin both learn Bukujutsu and Taiyoken, techniques of the Crane School. The Kamehameha was more versatile than the Dodonpa, plus it was a better fit for the way they were trained than the Dodonpa would have been. Besides, the Crane school offensive techniques were developed by assassins, for assassins. So, the Turtle school guys learned the support skills, and never bothered with the others as the Kamehameha was superior in the long run, even if it wasn't completely apparent at that point.

Crane School ki techniques:
Bukujutsu
Taiyoken
Dodonpa
Kikoho
Telekinesis

I forget what part it was, but there was one time where Master Roshi states that the dodonpa is more powerful than the kamehameha.

Master Roshi stated it when Krillin was facing off against Chaozu.

Master Roshi is a phagggot.

That verbiage is more than a bit inappropriate, despite the real world taboo in our culture (and probably this site) to use such language, it doesn't even make any sense to refer to Master Roshi as such a term. He's clearly lecherous, even a bit perverted, but undeniably straight.

I believe Roshi was referring to the fact that Krillin's Kamehameha at that point was unpolished and unrefined, therefore making his use of it weaker than the Dodonpa. Roshi's training methods built upon the basics, making his pupils super strong, first and foremost, with the stamina to outlast opponents in battle. I believe his intent was to teach the Kamehameha once these fundamentals were mastered, yet his pupils trained and learned it on their own earlier than he anticipated. This was most likely from watching his alter ego, Jacki Chun, and Goku use the technique multiple times prior.

We see that Roshi's own mastery of strength and stamina produced a far stronger Kamehameha than using the same technique when these facets had not been mastered first. Look at when he blew up fire mountain, and later the moon. Mastery of the Turtle school training would yield an even stronger Kamehameha. He also used it to return to the ring from would-be ring outs, and Goku's own ingenuity would lead to directional control of the beam, launching himself into Tenshinhan in the air to deliver a knockout body blow, and even using it to propel himself from his feet later on. The versatility of the technique to be empowered by greater strength and power, and to be used in many different ways is what makes it the superior move. Dodonpa, by comparison was merely a concentrated ki beam intended to kill, and not for such widespread purposes. The Turtle boys took the Crane school support techniques, and added them to their own fighting style, and ignored the rest, as they already had the more adaptable Kamehameha. '

That was also a method of the Turtle school training, one primary, all use ki technique, and by mastering all physical characteristics first, the ability to quickly adapt other learned techniques. Roshi pushed to drive the point home to his students that there was always someone stronger, and to always strive to better yourself. Whereas the Crane school taught a bunch of techniques and taught that one was already superior through their mastery.

[dbzfan7]

Master Roshi stated it when Krillin was facing off against Chaozu.

Well, the way Roshi said it, I never really got the impression that the Dodonpa was necessarily stronger than the Kamehameha. Given that this was the first time Kuririn had ever used the Kamehameha (or at least the first that Roshi was aware of), I took his comment about a "hastily thrown together" Kamehameha as being him saying that someone inexperienced with the Kamehameha couldn't just hastily put one together and expect it to stand up against a Dodonpa.

It wasn't like with the Ki Kou Hou, where Roshi just flat out says that it's superior to the Kamehameha. Here, he specifically commented about a hastily thrown together one, which kind of tells me that it's not always a X is stronger than Y situation.

Exactly. Krillin just hardly knows how to wield the kamehameha and probably would have won if he trained it. I never saw Dodonpa as superior.

Dodonpa.

Chapter: 121, P1.2
Context: the Kamehameha in comparison to the Dodonpa.
Kame-sennin: “It’s no use!! A hastily thrown together Kamehameha can’t win against a Dodonpa!!

Chapter: 121, P6.7
Kame-sennin: “You’ve made magnificent progress, Kuririn…! If you had hit him with a properly taught Kamehameha, that one hit would have completely decided the match.”

On the other hand the Kikoho is without a doubt called stronger than the Goku's Kamehameha.

Kikoho

Chapter: 132, P14.1
Kame-sennin: “It’s a technique that holds outrageous destructive power…many levels above even the Kamehameha…However, because of this extreme terribleness, it fiercely depletes one’s own energy, and they say people have even died from it…Even if one doesn’t die, one’s lifespan will undoubtedly be shortened…”

[TripleRach]

Master Roshi is a phagggot.

These type of comments are not appropriate at all. Please re-read the forum rules.

[shonenhikada]

Woah. I'm not using a homophobic remark here. I'm using it in the context of THE PHRASE 'Op is a phaggot'.

[xJeffx]

Chapter: 121, P6.7
Kame-sennin: “You’ve made magnificent progress, Kuririn…! If you had hit him with a properly taught Kamehameha, that one hit would have completely decided the match.”

I found this line funny seeing that he'd never bother teaching anyone the Kamahameha. Heck he deliberately avoid teaching Goku and Krillin any special techniques after their training for the tournament.

[Dayspring]

The Dodonpa is only superior to the basic Kamehameha. Once people learn how to add more ki to the Kamehameha so as to produce stronger blasts, the strength of the Dodonpa is no longer an issue.

[Polyphase Avatron]

The Dodonpa is only superior to the basic Kamehameha. Once people learn how to add more ki to the Kamehameha so as to produce stronger blasts, the strength of the Dodonpa is no longer an issue.

That's assuming that no improvements are made on the Dodonpa...

[Dayspring]

The Dodonpa is only superior to the basic Kamehameha. Once people learn how to add more ki to the Kamehameha so as to produce stronger blasts, the strength of the Dodonpa is no longer an issue.

That's assuming that no improvements are made on the Dodonpa...

Which we see there aren't, though. Only Cyborg Tao Pai Pai improves upon it and Tenshinhan blocks it with ease. Meanwhile, that same budokai is when we're introduced to a more powerful kamehameha.

[dbzfan7]

The Dodonpa is only superior to the basic Kamehameha. Once people learn how to add more ki to the Kamehameha so as to produce stronger blasts, the strength of the Dodonpa is no longer an issue.

It was only better than a makeshift hastily used Kamehameha. If Goku at the same time period fired his own Kamehameha against Chaozu which has been trained, he'd have won. Krillin's Kamehameha was kinda like Goku's first one, a subpar Kamehameha.

[Polyphase Avatron]

The Dodonpa is only superior to the basic Kamehameha. Once people learn how to add more ki to the Kamehameha so as to produce stronger blasts, the strength of the Dodonpa is no longer an issue.

That's assuming that no improvements are made on the Dodonpa...

Which we see there aren't, though. Only Cyborg Tao Pai Pai improves upon it and Tenshinhan blocks it with ease. Meanwhile, that same budokai is when we're introduced to a more powerful kamehameha.

I'm saying that if they concentrated on improving it it could keep up with the Kamehameha.

[Dayspring]

I'm saying that if they concentrated on improving it it could keep up with the Kamehameha.

And I'm saying it wouldn't matter. It's a fundamentally inferior technique (a finger beam). The only reason it was considered the better of the two is because the basic Dodonpa is superior to the basic Kamehameha.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Freeza's Death Beam was a finger beam yet it was superior to Kamehameha until Goku reached SSJ.

[Dayspring]

Freeza's Death Beam was a finger beam yet it was superior to Kamehameha until Goku reached SSJ.

Nothing suggests that in the least. Goku was shown to swat them away like flies before even using any Kaiokens. The only decent finger beam is the Makankosappo.

[Darkprince410]

Freeza's Death Beam was a finger beam yet it was superior to Kamehameha until Goku reached SSJ.

It was really only useful if the user (Freeza, obviously) was stronger than the opponent by any real amount. Against someone of relatively equal strength, they could be deflected rather easily.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Freeza's Death Beam was a finger beam yet it was superior to Kamehameha until Goku reached SSJ.

It was really only useful if the user (Freeza, obviously) was stronger than the opponent by any real amount. Against someone of relatively equal strength, they could be deflected rather easily.

Cell used it effectively...

[Captain Sauza]

The only statement comparing the two techniques has Master Roshi saying the kamehameha wouldn't stand up to the dodonpa. If improvements could be made to the Kamehameha, then they could certainly improve the Dodonpa, especially if Tao is able to - and the only reason it didn't make a difference is because Tien was so much stronger. Have Goku or Gohan work on improving the Dodonpa and it would probably cut through a kamehameha.

[Saiga]

There's no evidence for that at all. The relevant quote from the manga has already posted - the Dodonpa (which Chaozu was properly trained to use) was only said to be superior to an improvised Kamehameha. It wasn't compared to even the basic Kamehameha.

The fact that no-one bothers to use it tells me that it isn't inherently superior.

[Darkprince410]

Freeza's Death Beam was a finger beam yet it was superior to Kamehameha until Goku reached SSJ.

It was really only useful if the user (Freeza, obviously) was stronger than the opponent by any real amount. Against someone of relatively equal strength, they could be deflected rather easily.

Cell used it effectively...

Well, the only time he really seemed to have used it was against Trunks, who was in his base form. What he used against Vegeta that Gohan ended up intercepting didn't look like the Death Beam at all, as he fired it by swinging his arm out in front of him, and the blast seemed to be thrown from the tip of the fingers. It wasn't like Freeza's Death Beam where it was a straight beam pointed toward his target.

[Polyphase Avatron]

There's no evidence for that at all. The relevant quote from the manga has already posted - the Dodonpa (which Chaozu was properly trained to use) was only said to be superior to an improvised Kamehameha. It wasn't compared to even the basic Kamehameha.

The fact that no-one bothers to use it tells me that it isn't inherently superior.

Or it just lost out in popularity. I mean Goku didn't teach Kaio-ken or Shunkan Idou to anyone else, so does that mean those are useless techniques now?