Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:Shisami vs. 100% power Freeza as he was fighting Goku on Namek
Even at 10% Shisami wins.
DBZAOTA482 wrote:Namu vs. Pamput
Pamput has better feats than 21st TB Goku. He stomps.
He does..???
Chi-Chi (23rd Budokai) vs. Yajirobe (first appearance) then Yajirobe (23rd Budokai ; If she wins) ; Pleas give me satisifaction
Last edited by DBZAOTA482 on Sat May 23, 2015 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Bullza wrote:Golden Freeza vs Beerus at 80%. Freeza's power doesn't drop at an accelerated rate.
While their powers are pretty much identical, I'd give this to Beerus. He seems the more intelligent fighter.
DBZAOTA482 wrote:Chi-Chi (23rd Budokai) vs. Yajirobe (first appearance) and Yajirobe (23rd Budokai ; If she wins) ; Pleas give me satisifaction
Chi Chi decimates both versions of Yajirobe. Happy?
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Lord Beerus wrote:Chi Chi decimates both versions of Yajirobe. Happy?
Not exactly what I meant. I just want an unbiased answer with objective reasoning.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Lord Beerus wrote:Chi Chi decimates both versions of Yajirobe. Happy?
Not exactly what I meant. I just want an unbiased answer with objective reasoning.
Alright...
Chi Chi would most certainly over power Yajirobe when he first debuted as his BP was very most likely still in double digits by that stage while Chi Chi was was triple digits. Come the time of the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament, Yajirobe lost in the preliminaries while Chi Chi breezed through. But a significant thing to note is that Yajirobe went up against Kami, albeit in human body, but still Kami, who has a BP of 220. So I'd say that Yajirobe BP would be 90-110 by that time, given how effortlessly he was seemingly defeated, which would put him very near to Chi Chi's BP of 130, but I would believe she would edge it out in the end.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Lord Beerus wrote:Chi Chi decimates both versions of Yajirobe. Happy?
Not exactly what I meant. I just want an unbiased answer with objective reasoning.
Alright...
Chi Chi would most certainly over power Yajirobe when he first debuted as his BP was very most likely still in double digits by that stage while Chi Chi was was triple digits. Come the time of the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament, Yajirobe lost in the preliminaries while Chi Chi breezed through. But a significant thing to note is that Yajirobe went up against Kami, albeit in human body, but still Kami, who has a BP of 220. So I'd say that Yajirobe BP would be 90-110 by that time, given how effortlessly he was seemingly defeated, which would put him very near to Chi Chi's BP of 130, but I would believe she would edge it out in the end.
I personally don't trust those numbers these days. No way could Kami be at 220 with Piccolo Daimao was at 260 when Kami was stated to be a lot stronger than him and Tenshinhan was also stated to have surpassed Piccolo Daimao as well. No way could Cyborg Tao be at 210 (which is somewhat close to Ten's level at the BoZ) either when Ten made look like a bitch.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
DBZAOTA482 wrote:I personally don't trust those numbers these days. No way could Kami be at 220 with Piccolo Daimao was at 260 when Kami was stated to be a lot stronger than him and Tenshinhan was also stated to have surpassed Piccolo Daimao as well. No way could Cyborg Tao be at 210 (which is somewhat close to Ten's level at the BoZ) either when Ten made look like a bitch.
Well, those numbers are pretty much all we have to go by, unfortunately.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
The Monkey King wrote:Relaxed SSGSS Goku vs saiyan saga Goku
Saiyan saga Goku is allowed one good shot, can SSGSS Goku take it?
So long as SSGSS is off guard and not paying attention, a sniper rifle could put him down. Early Goku wins to shit plot twist.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
The Monkey King wrote:Relaxed SSGSS Goku vs saiyan saga Goku
Saiyan saga Goku is allowed one good shot, can SSGSS Goku take it?
So long as SSGSS is off guard and not paying attention, a sniper rifle could put him down. Early Goku wins to shit plot twist.
I get what you're saying, but a sniper most definitely couldn't put Goku down, he was caught by bullets plenty of times as a kid and off guard at that, his body is now a hell of a lot tougher, off guard or not. Even sorbets ring, if it's hitting harder than Saiyan arc Vegeta can be argued to hold enough power to wipe out a planet, and it's most definitely got enough power to take out a moon.
In regards to the question, it all depends how hard Sorbets ring hits in comparison to other characters.
The Monkey King wrote:Relaxed SSGSS Goku vs saiyan saga Goku
Saiyan saga Goku is allowed one good shot, can SSGSS Goku take it?
So long as SSGSS is off guard and not paying attention, a sniper rifle could put him down. Early Goku wins to shit plot twist.
I get what you're saying, but a sniper most definitely couldn't put Goku down, he was caught by bullets plenty of times as a kid and off guard at that, his body is now a hell of a lot tougher, off guard or not. Even sorbets ring, if it's hitting harder than Saiyan arc Vegeta can be argued to hold enough power to wipe out a planet, and it's most definitely got enough power to take out a moon.
So could Krillin, and Vegeta himself said he'd have to lower his power to the absolute minimum so Krillin could effect him.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Zombie wrote:Yes, Pamput destroyed a concrete wall with no effort while 21st TB Goku had to put effort.
Yajirobe stomps her both times.
I'm pretty sure Pamput put effort into it (and no, it wasn't concrete) and Goku pretty much just launched himself into it not to mention a bigger portion of it was destroyed. Jackie (who was already superhuman at the 21st Budokai) also suggested that Pamput was only at the peak of human abilities.
You'd wish it'd be a stomp... unless he uses his sword.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Zombie wrote:Yes, Pamput destroyed a concrete wall with no effort while 21st TB Goku had to put effort.
Yajirobe stomps her both times.
I'm pretty sure Pamput put effort into it (and no, it wasn't concrete) and Goku pretty much just launched himself into it not to mention a bigger portion of it was destroyed. Jackie (who was already superhuman at the 21st Budokai) also suggested that Pamput was only at the peak of human abilities.
You'd wish it'd be a stomp... unless he uses his sword.
Why wouldn't Yajirobe stomp?
Chi Chi's BP is 130 and Yajirobe is (160 IMO) close to 180.
A set of matches:
Ikose vs Farmer.
Idasa vs Boss Carrot (No Magic).
Mokkeko vs Bear Tief.
Kirano vs Giran (No gum).
Spopovitch vs Ranfan.
Yamu (Smell is a non issue) vs Bacterian.
Zombie wrote:Yes, Pamput destroyed a concrete wall with no effort while 21st TB Goku had to put effort.
Yajirobe stomps her both times.
I'm pretty sure Pamput put effort into it (and no, it wasn't concrete) and Goku pretty much just launched himself into it not to mention a bigger portion of it was destroyed. Jackie (who was already superhuman at the 21st Budokai) also suggested that Pamput was only at the peak of human abilities.
You'd wish it'd be a stomp... unless he uses his sword.
Why wouldn't Yajirobe stomp?
Chi Chi's BP is 130 and Yajirobe is (160 IMO) close to 180.
A set of matches:
Ikose vs Farmer.
Idasa vs Boss Carrot (No Magic).
Mokkeko vs Bear Tief.
Kirano vs Giran (No gum).
Spopovitch vs Ranfan.
Yamu (Smell is a non issue) vs Bacterian.
That's not enough for a stomp. Plus I don't trust those guidebook numbers these days.
-Farmer. Ekosa is only a kid.
-Idasa
-Slice n' dice
-You jokin'? Giran one-shots
-Spopovich still beats her like he did Videl but she's still a better match
-Bacterian's horrid body odor was said to be so potent that it makes the opponent cover their nose without even thinking about it (as demonstrated in his fight wit Krillin). He crushes Yamu like a grape.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
fadeddreams5 wrote:Hirudegarn (1st form) vs Fat Janemba
Mist monster vs reality manipulator!
Neither seems very smart...
Hirudegarn wins handily, he was handling Ultimate Gohan just fine while Fat Janemba got wrecked by SSJ3 Goku.
This is true. Though Hirudegarn's 2nd form was killed by one punch of SSJ3 Goku's. Ultimate Gohan couldn't beat his 1st form because he couldn't find a way to touch him at all.
Fat Janemba can manipulate reality, so he should have no problem bypassing Hirudegarn's defenses, in theory. : o
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
The Monkey King wrote:Relaxed SSGSS Goku vs saiyan saga Goku
Saiyan saga Goku is allowed one good shot, can SSGSS Goku take it?
SSGSS Goku still one shots
Zombie wrote:A set of matches:
Ikose vs Farmer.
Idasa vs Boss Carrot (No Magic).
Mokkeko vs Bear Tief.
Kirano vs Giran (No gum).
Spopovitch vs Ranfan.
Yamu (Smell is a non issue) vs Bacterian.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Hirudegarn (1st form) vs Fat Janemba
Mist monster vs reality manipulator!
Neither seems very smart...
Janemba's reality warping abilities are too much for Hirudegarn to handle. Fat Janemba stomps.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Base Vegeta vs. Base Trunks (Trunks' arrival)
Base Trunks dominates Base Vegeta. Once Trunks became a SSJ, he was in another league compared to Freeza, who was still a force to be reckoned with at the time. So I'd reckon his BP in his base form would be at least ~5,000,000, which already places him at least 3 times stronger than Vegeta, who had a BP, in my opinion, that didn't reach no higher than 1,500,000 after Namek and before he became a SSJ.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
