How strong is General Rildo?

[supercat]

Without the events of BoG and Fukkatsu No F, I can see EoZ Base Goku being at around SSJ2 tier at the very best. I would say EoZ Uub is more or less somewhere around there as well.

I can see EoZ Base Goku, Mr. Buu, and EoZ Uub all being relatively close to one another in power. However, this is probably on the higher end for EoZ Base Goku and EoZ Uub. It doesn't seem too far-fetched to place them at or even a decent amount below Super Perfect Cell.

Again, this is all assuming we exclude the events of BoG and Fukkatsu No F.

[Darkprince410]

Someone besides us or Buu "might" win, as in this guy might be stronger/as strong as all of us or he won't be. Based on his performance, he clearly matched Goku and his expectations.

We know Cell was suppressed against Goku because he pretty much says it and then later powers up. There's no reason to say Goku was suppressed as it's never mentioned.

Which means that all that Uub matched was Goku's expectations that he might be strong enough to beat them, or might not. If Mr. Buu wasn't in the picture as far as being stronger than Uub, there'd be no reason to mention him.

It's never mentioned that he was suppressed, but given his attitude during the fight, as well as the lack of intensity he had on his face during the fight, it seemed fairly clear to me that Uub wasn't really pushing him that hard. He seems shocked by Uub's initial attack ferocity against him, but then maintains a rather calm look on his face afterward, which doesn't go in line with what we've seen from close fights before. If Uub had really been pushing him, it'd have more likely looked like how Gohan and Vegeta looked when they were testing out the strength of Goten and Trunks, respectively, for the first time. His calmness though suggests otherwise.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Someone besides us or Buu "might" win, as in this guy might be stronger/as strong as all of us or he won't be. Based on his performance, he clearly matched Goku and his expectations.

We know Cell was suppressed against Goku because he pretty much says it and then later powers up. There's no reason to say Goku was suppressed as it's never mentioned.

Which means that all that Uub matched was Goku's expectations that he might be strong enough to beat them, or might not. If Mr. Buu wasn't in the picture as far as being stronger than Uub, there'd be no reason to mention him.

I think I know what you're getting at so let me try explaining it that way...

Goku's expectations are someone who might be able to beat Buu, and Uub matches that, so it wouldn't necessarily make Uub stronger than Good Buu, just at a competitive level. So at the very least, Base Goku, Uub, and Good Buu aren't tiers apart. That's what you mean? If so, then we know Goku by the time he's on M2 is far stronger, which eliminates Good Buu or Pure Buu as options for Rild's comparison.

It's never mentioned that he was suppressed, but given his attitude during the fight, as well as the lack of intensity he had on his face during the fight, it seemed fairly clear to me that Uub wasn't really pushing him that hard. He seems shocked by Uub's initial attack ferocity against him, but then maintains a rather calm look on his face afterward, which doesn't go in line with what we've seen from close fights before. If Uub had really been pushing him, it'd have more likely looked like how Gohan and Vegeta looked when they were testing out the strength of Goten and Trunks, respectively, for the first time. His calmness though suggests otherwise.

I don't think the fights long enough to use his facial expression compared to other fights. There's only one single panel where they're actually going blow for blow and Goku looks focused there for me.

Even if you want to say he's suppressed, that would only help my argument, as it'd have Base Goku > Uub ~ (at least) Good Buu, meaning it's impossible for Rild to be comparable to Good Buu as Goku is much stronger by the time of M2.

[Hugo Boss]

To add on to the chain, Dr. Mu saw Goku and Trunks fight Luud as Super Saiyans, and still ordered Rild to send Sigma Force to capture the GT Gang. Also, Giru gives his data on Goku, Pan, and Trunks to the Sigma Force, and they're still confident in taking Goku on, despite seeing his previous Super Saiyan power in Giru's data.

Wasn't Giru's data about the Saiyans and their power adulterated on purpose? I guess this is why the machine mutants weren't prepared to take on Goku in the first place.

Time: Roughly 5m
Context: Rild arrives at the Saiyans' spaceship; Goku feels his ki again
Goku: “The universe certainly is a big place, huh? To think that I should come across someone with a Ki as large as yours... It's even greater than Boo's.”

Good, so this highly suggests that any of the villains Goku has fought until then (in Dragon Ball GT's story at least) are weaker than Boo and that Base Goku himself is not quite up to the task of taking Boo since he couldn't beat Ledgic without Super Saiyan. Since Base Rild couldn't defeat Base Goku alone I suppose Base Rild is weaker than Ledgic, who is weaker than Boo. That probably means Goku still needs Super Saiyan to surpass Boo.

Son Gohan
He transformed when fighting with Goten after Goten had been taken over by Baby!! It seems that even in times of peace, he hasn’t neglected his training. The differences in Gohan’s facial expressions before and after transforming are the most intense out of any warrior!!

So this is probably a hint that Gohan isn't weakened to the point where even Goten gives trouble to him, while Goten is also possessed by someone as strong as Baby.

If Uub had really been pushing him, it'd have more likely looked like how Gohan and Vegeta looked when they were testing out the strength of Goten and Trunks, respectively, for the first time. His calmness though suggests otherwise.

Not that I disagree with you, but when had Goku tense expression while fighting someone whom pushes him far? Isn't his calmness a product of his relaxed nature? Vegeta and Gohan seem different in that aspect.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

To add on to the chain, Dr. Mu saw Goku and Trunks fight Luud as Super Saiyans, and still ordered Rild to send Sigma Force to capture the GT Gang. Also, Giru gives his data on Goku, Pan, and Trunks to the Sigma Force, and they're still confident in taking Goku on, despite seeing his previous Super Saiyan power in Giru's data.

Wasn't Giru's data about the Saiyans and their power adulterated on purpose? I guess this is why the machine mutants weren't prepared to take on Goku in the first place.

That's never stated. It just means Goku powered up, since even Mu sensed SS Goku from Luud and still wanted Rild to send the Sigmas after him.

Good, so this highly suggests that any of the villains Goku has fought until then (in Dragon Ball GT's story at least) are weaker than Boo and that Base Goku himself is not quite up to the task of taking Boo since he couldn't beat Ledgic without Super Saiyan.

It means all of the villains before Rild are weaker than the Buu Goku was comparing the former to.

Since Base Rild couldn't defeat Base Goku alone I suppose Base Rild is weaker than Ledgic, who is weaker than Boo.

Goku says Rild doesn't even compare to anyone up until now so how does that make him weaker than Ledgic? Also, Trunks tries to fight against Ledgic but freaks out over Rild's power.

Are you seriously saying Base Rild is weaker than Buu when Goku says his Ki is greater than Buu's? What?

That probably means Goku still needs Super Saiyan to surpass Boo.

Despite fighting Rild in base form and being advantaged?

So this is probably a hint that Gohan isn't weakened to the point where even Goten gives trouble to him, while Goten is also possessed by someone as strong as Baby.

There's nothing hinting Gohan's weaker at all. All it says he trained. I don't see why it would be said he trained if we're supposed to believe he's weaker.

[Hitiro]

Someone besides us or Buu "might" win, as in this guy might be stronger/as strong as all of us or he won't be. Based on his performance, he clearly matched Goku and his expectations.

We know Cell was suppressed against Goku because he pretty much says it and then later powers up. There's no reason to say Goku was suppressed as it's never mentioned.

You're forgetting Goku is talking about them winning in a tournament capacity. He was including all super beings in this statement. Pan, Goten, Trunks, Vegeta. Do you really think Goten stands a chance against Boo in a tournament? Or Pan for that matter? But if Boo lost to Goku and both Vegeta and Goku had an incredible fight which thoroughly exhausted them then obviously Pan, Goten or Trunks could win. Because the 3 major competitors would be knocked out, excluding Oob that is. There is also the whole ring out thing. You don't have to be strong to win a tournament really. If Goten Kiai'ed Boo out of the ring then he could also progress that way. Though it is more unlikely than having Goku or Vegeta take him out and then have Goku and Vegeta fight each other.

So Oob doesn't necessarily have to be as strong as Goku, Vegeta or Boo to win the tournament. He just need the fights to be in his favour.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Someone besides us or Buu "might" win, as in this guy might be stronger/as strong as all of us or he won't be. Based on his performance, he clearly matched Goku and his expectations.

We know Cell was suppressed against Goku because he pretty much says it and then later powers up. There's no reason to say Goku was suppressed as it's never mentioned.

You're forgetting Goku is talking about them winning in a tournament capacity. He was including all super beings in this statement. Pan, Goten, Trunks, Vegeta. Do you really think Goten stands a chance against Boo in a tournament? Or Pan for that matter? But if Boo lost to Goku and both Vegeta and Goku had an incredible fight which thoroughly exhausted them then obviously Pan, Goten or Trunks could win. Because the 3 major competitors would be knocked out, excluding Oob that is. There is also the whole ring out thing. You don't have to be strong to win a tournament really. If Goten Kiai'ed Boo out of the ring then he could also progress that way. Though it is more unlikely than having Goku or Vegeta take him out and then have Goku and Vegeta fight each other.

Wouldn't Goku be planning on taking on Uub in the first match? I don't feel like checking right now but he tells Buu to have him and Uub go first so he'd start at his max, correct? Even then he never retracts his word. Also how would Goten Kiai Buu out of the ring if he's much weaker? Kaioshin's Kiai only budged Buu's head, so if Goten is a lot weaker than Buu also, his Kiai shouldn't do much more than Kaioshit's.

[Hitiro]

Wouldn't Goku be planning on taking on Uub in the first match? I don't feel like checking right now but he tells Buu to have him and Uub go first so he'd start at his max, correct? Even then he never retracts his word. Also how would Goten Kiai Buu out of the ring if he's much weaker? Kaioshin's Kiai only budged Buu's head, so if Goten is a lot weaker than Buu also, his Kiai shouldn't do much more than Kaioshit's.

Doesn't seem like Goku was planning on it until it came to choosing who to fight first. But Goku says "I want to fight him while both of us still have 100% of our stamina." So he may just be thinking of Oob with this statement or he may be thinking that it would be pointless if he has to go up against Vegeta and waste all of his stamina or a bit of both. Tenshinhan technically Kiai'ed Cell for a good while with his Shin Kikoho and the difference between them was massive. 70% Freeza also Kiai'ed SSJ Goku despite being almost twice as weak as him. Goku also Kiai'ed a suppressed Freeza before he turned SSJ I believe.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Doesn't seem like Goku was planning on it until it came to choosing who to fight first. But Goku says "I want to fight him while both of us still have 100% of our stamina." So he may just be thinking of Oob with this statement or he may be thinking that it would be pointless if he has to go up against Vegeta and waste all of his stamina or a bit of both.

I'm not really getting your point.. also why doesn't it seem like he was planning on it? I'm not saying he was, I'm just asking what's suggesting he wasn't?

Tenshinhan technically Kiai'ed Cell for a good while with his Shin Kikoho and the difference between them was massive.

Goten doesn't have the Shin Kikoho

70% Freeza also Kiai'ed SSJ Goku despite being almost twice as weak as him. Goku also Kiai'ed a suppressed Freeza before he turned SSJ I believe.

Both were off guard / unexpected if I recall correctly, and also Goten's reaction to being put up against Buu doesn't suggest he would be able to beat Buu in any way, otherwise, he shouldn't be upset.

So Oob doesn't necessarily have to be as strong as Goku, Vegeta or Boo to win the tournament. He just need the fights to be in his favour.

He doesn't have to be, I suppose, but that's looking past the obvious intent of the statement.

[Hitiro]

Doesn't seem like Goku was planning on it until it came to choosing who to fight first. But Goku says "I want to fight him while both of us still have 100% of our stamina." So he may just be thinking of Oob with this statement or he may be thinking that it would be pointless if he has to go up against Vegeta and waste all of his stamina or a bit of both.

I'm not really getting your point.. also why doesn't it seem like he was planning on it? I'm not saying he was, I'm just asking what's suggesting he wasn't?

Sorry, perhaps I should use the actual line here:

Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P10.2
Context: Goku asks Boo to rig the match-ups so he can fight Oob
Goku: “…Sorry, but I wanna fight with him no matter what, in the 1st round when both of us still have 100% of our stamina…”

From his term of speech it isn't that they must be at 100% it's more like he is describing that he wants it to be in the 1st round because they'll both be at 100% this can be taken to mean 3 things.

1. He wanted Oob to be at his full power to test him, he can't do that if he has to fight anybody else or gets knocked out of the tournament.
2. He doesn't want to fight Oob after having fought Vegeta who would probably exhaust him to the limit.
3. A combination of the two.

For the "It doesn't seem like he was originally planning it" If he was planning it how would someone else other than the people in question win if he was going to fight Oob in the first round? Forgoing any of the God arc stuff of the movies if Goku and Oob have a great fight then if Oob was the winner how is he is he going to be able to win the tournament? He'd be exhausted. Including the God arc stuff Goku is going to win against Oob anyway and Oob still wouldn't be need to be mentioned in Goku's statment. So either way, if Goku was planning to fight him in the first round there would literally be no way for Oob to reach the finals and win.

Tenshinhan technically Kiai'ed Cell for a good while with his Shin Kikoho and the difference between them was massive.

Goten doesn't have the Shin Kikoho

70% Freeza also Kiai'ed SSJ Goku despite being almost twice as weak as him. Goku also Kiai'ed a suppressed Freeza before he turned SSJ I believe.

Both were off guard / unexpected if I recall correctly, and also Goten's reaction to being put up against Buu doesn't suggest he would be able to beat Buu in any way, otherwise, he shouldn't be worried.

My point was that Kiai's have been very effective. Obviously Goten isn't going to have a Kiai on the level of Shin Kikoho. That doesn't mean he can't produce a very powerful Kiai. Mr. Boo is somewhere between SSJ2 and SSJ3 in terms of strength. That isn't a huge gap really. All he'd need to do is go SSJ and he may be able to Kiai him out. Especially if he doesn't expect it.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

From his term of speech it isn't that they must be at 100% it's more like he is describing that he wants it to be in the 1st round because they'll both be at 100% this can be taken to mean 3 things.

1. He wanted Oob to be at his full power to test him, he can't do that if he has to fight anybody else or gets knocked out of the tournament.
2. He doesn't want to fight Oob after having fought Vegeta who would probably exhaust him to the limit.
3. A combination of the two.

For the "It doesn't seem like he was originally planning it" If he was planning it how would someone else other than the people in question win if he was going to fight Oob in the first round? Forgoing any of the God arc stuff of the movies if Goku and Oob have a great fight then if Oob was the winner how is he is he going to be able to win the tournament? He'd be exhausted. Including the God arc stuff Goku is going to win against Oob anyway and Oob still wouldn't be need to be mentioned in Goku's statment. So either way, if Goku was planning to fight him in the first round there would literally be no way for Oob to reach the finals and win.

I feel you're embellishing the whole 'exhausted' stuff. Perfect Cell was very worn down by Goku but was still confident in taking on all of the weaker Z fighters. If Uub is on par with Goku, he could still beat Goku and be just a lot stronger than everyone else, to the point where he could still beat them.

I also feel this argument is ignoring the intent. I doubt the intent of the statement was to come up with a bunch of hypothetical scenarios that include Uub winning despite Buu being much stronger. Simply speaking, the statements pretty much just say Goku's expecting someone to possibly beat himself and Buu and that Uub was that great. There's no need to warp things around by making up hypothetical scenarios to have Uub be much weaker than Buu but still win the tournament as that just seems silly.

My point was that Kiai's have been very effective. Obviously Goten isn't going to have a Kiai on the level of Shin Kikoho. That doesn't mean he can't produce a very powerful Kiai. Mr. Boo is somewhere between SSJ2 and SSJ3 in terms of strength. That isn't a huge gap really. All he'd need to do is go SSJ and he may be able to Kiai him out. Especially if he doesn't expect it.

They have been effective, that doesn't necessitate them being effective here. Also, as I said, if Goten had a way to win against Buu there'd be no reason for him to be so upset about being pit against him in the first round.

[Kaboom]

I can't blame anyone for preferring an angle to the Oob fight which, excluding the events of the new movies, doesn't require Goku to be inexplicably upwards of 400x stronger than his Boo arc self.

[Hitiro]

I feel you're embellishing the whole 'exhausted' stuff. Perfect Cell was very worn down by Goku but was still confident in taking on all of the weaker Z fighters. If Uub is on par with Goku, he could still beat Goku and be just a lot stronger than everyone else, to the point where he could still beat them.

He was not that worn down. There was already a large gap in both their powers from the beginning. If he was very worn down then he wouldn't have been confident he could still beat Goku if Goku had a Senzu. If he could beat Goku who was supposedly the strongest one there while a little exhausted then he could definitely take all the others because he thought the gap between Goku and them was huge. Whatever Cell lost during the fight was more than made up with what he had in reserve. It is completely different if two characters on par with each other fight. Because they would both fight to exhaustion and then in the next round Oob would have to fight people who could rival Goku. Oob definitely wouldn't reach the end like that.

I also feel this argument is ignoring the intent. I doubt the intent of the statement was to come up with a bunch of hypothetical scenarios that include Uub winning despite Buu being much stronger. Simply speaking, the statements pretty much just say Goku's expecting someone to possibly beat himself and Buu and that Uub was that great. There's no need to warp things around by making up hypothetical scenarios to have Uub be much weaker than Buu but still win the tournament as that just seems silly.

They aren't hypothetical really. It's a logical look at it. They are fighting in a tournament. So you have to look at it from a tournament standpoint. There is no guarantee that Oob, even if he is as strong a Pure Boo, would be able to win every match as his stamina would change over the course of the tournament. The same goes for the other characters. But it is also possible that a character will get a lucky draw and not have to fight someone strong until the end of the tournament. It's like saying if Goku and Tenshinhan fought against each other in the first round of the semi-finals. Goku or Tenshinhan probably wouldn't have won. Look at the way their match went. Do you honestly think either Goku or Tenshinhan would have been able to fight Kame'sennin, Kuririn or Yamcha if they had their match first?

My point was that Kiai's have been very effective. Obviously Goten isn't going to have a Kiai on the level of Shin Kikoho. That doesn't mean he can't produce a very powerful Kiai. Mr. Boo is somewhere between SSJ2 and SSJ3 in terms of strength. That isn't a huge gap really. All he'd need to do is go SSJ and he may be able to Kiai him out. Especially if he doesn't expect it.

They have been effective, that doesn't necessitate them being effective here. Also, as I said, if Goten had a way to win against Buu there'd be no reason for him to be so upset about being pit against him in the first round.

That's why I said it is a possibility not an absolute certainty. Like I said. This is a tournament setting. Anything could happen. What happens if Oob gets kiai'ed out of the ring by another character? He can't fly so he would lose the match. Therefore he wouldn't progress. There is always a possibility for something to happen.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I feel you're embellishing the whole 'exhausted' stuff. Perfect Cell was very worn down by Goku but was still confident in taking on all of the weaker Z fighters. If Uub is on par with Goku, he could still beat Goku and be just a lot stronger than everyone else, to the point where he could still beat them.

He was not that worn down. There was already a large gap in both their powers from the beginning. If he was very worn down then he wouldn't have been confident he could still beat Goku if Goku had a Senzu. If he could beat Goku who was supposedly the strongest one there while a little exhausted then he could definitely take all the others because he thought the gap between Goku and them was huge. Whatever Cell lost during the fight was more than made up with what he had in reserve. It is completely different if two characters on par with each other fight. Because they would both fight to exhaustion and then in the next round Oob would have to fight people who could rival Goku. Oob definitely wouldn't reach the end like that.

I also feel this argument is ignoring the intent. I doubt the intent of the statement was to come up with a bunch of hypothetical scenarios that include Uub winning despite Buu being much stronger. Simply speaking, the statements pretty much just say Goku's expecting someone to possibly beat himself and Buu and that Uub was that great. There's no need to warp things around by making up hypothetical scenarios to have Uub be much weaker than Buu but still win the tournament as that just seems silly.

They aren't hypothetical really. It's a logical look at it. They are fighting in a tournament. So you have to look at it from a tournament standpoint. There is no guarantee that Oob, even if he is as strong a Pure Boo, would be able to win every match as his stamina would change over the course of the tournament. The same goes for the other characters. But it is also possible that a character will get a lucky draw and not have to fight someone strong until the end of the tournament. It's like saying if Goku and Tenshinhan fought against each other in the first round of the semi-finals. Goku or Tenshinhan probably wouldn't have won. Look at the way their match went. Do you honestly think either Goku or Tenshinhan would have been able to fight Kame'sennin, Kuririn or Yamcha if they had their match first?

My point was that Kiai's have been very effective. Obviously Goten isn't going to have a Kiai on the level of Shin Kikoho. That doesn't mean he can't produce a very powerful Kiai. Mr. Boo is somewhere between SSJ2 and SSJ3 in terms of strength. That isn't a huge gap really. All he'd need to do is go SSJ and he may be able to Kiai him out. Especially if he doesn't expect it.

They have been effective, that doesn't necessitate them being effective here. Also, as I said, if Goten had a way to win against Buu there'd be no reason for him to be so upset about being pit against him in the first round.

That's why I said it is a possibility not an absolute certainty. Like I said. This is a tournament setting. Anything could happen. What happens if Oob gets kiai'ed out of the ring by another character? He can't fly so he would lose the match. Therefore he wouldn't progress. There is always a possibility for something to happen.

I don't feel like doing the whole back and forth thing as usual, I think you're missing my point. How relevant is intent to you? Do you believe the intent of "someone besides us or Buu might win" is meant to be taken as Good Buu >>>>>> Uub? That's ridiculous to me. Goku is expecting Buu's reincarnation and Goku calls him exactly what he was expecting. In Toriyama's mind did he want the reader to think Uub was as good as the person he was reincarnated as, or that he's far below that level? It's simple when you don't make up all of these Oh, well this could happen, or this, or this, or this, Goku: I'm expecting Buu's reincarnation", *Goku fights Uub*, Goku: "You're as good as I expected". I can't see the logic behind that meaning Uub is far below Buu.

[Hugo Boss]

Goku says Rild doesn't even compare to anyone up until now so how does that make him weaker than Ledgic? Also, Trunks tries to fight against Ledgic but freaks out over Rild's power.

Are you seriously saying Base Rild is weaker than Buu when Goku says his Ki is greater than Buu's? What? Despite fighting Rild in base form and being advantaged?

No need to get tense, that's because I saw that Goku could handle Base Rild without Super Saiyan, while he had to transform to SS to beat Ledgic. I don't remember if there is any justified power difference between those moments, sorry.

That's never stated. It just means Goku powered up, since even Mu sensed SS Goku from Luud and still wanted Rild to send the Sigmas after him.

Even if Goku did magically powered up, why would Giru give to the machine mutants such an accurate and important information about the Saiyans' power at that specific moment? He is supposed to help his friends, no? And, is Mu able to say how powerful Goku is just by looking at his tv? Wasn't he in another planet?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

No need to get tense, that's because I saw that Goku could handle Base Rild without Super Saiyan, while he had to transform to SS to beat Ledgic. I don't remember if there is any justified power difference between those moments, sorry.

OK.

Even if Goku did magically powered up, why would Giru give to the machine mutants such an accurate and important information about the Saiyans' power at that specific moment? He is supposed to help his friends, no? And, is Mu able to say how powerful Goku is just by looking at his tv? Wasn't he in another planet?

Maybe Giru knew they had powered up? He did devise the plan with Trunks, so if he knows Trunks and Son Goku are stronger now then he would just not let the Sigmas know and let them go off the old (and now inaccurate) data he had on them.

Also, Mu was able to sense from wherever he was as he was able to sense Luud's power.

Context: After Lood absorbs Pan
Goku: “This is some intense power!”
Lood: “Lood.”
Trunks: “U-unreal!”
Doctor Mu: “This is magnificent power!”

[Hugo Boss]

Maybe Giru knew they had powered up? He did devise the plan with Trunks, so if he knows Trunks and Son Goku are stronger now then he would just not let the Sigmas know and let them go off the old (and now inaccurate) data he had on them.

Can you say in what moment did Giru passed that information to the Sigmas? Because, if he passed the moment he saw Goku fighting, it wouldn't make sense for Giru to hope that Goku would get stronger by the time.

Context: After Lood absorbs Pan
Goku: “This is some intense power!”
Lood: “Lood.”
Trunks: “U-unreal!”
Doctor Mu: “This is magnificent power!”

Hmm, but I'm not sure if this means Mu had the ability to sense energy like Goku. It's possible that he was bragging about Luud's power by seeing his performance alone.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Can you say in what moment did Giru passed that information to the Sigmas? Because, if he passed the moment he saw Goku fighting it wouldn't make sense to hope that Goku would get stronger by the time.

It was after the GT gang already arrived on M2. They had Goku and Trunks captive and unconscious.

Hmm, but I'm not sure if this means Mu had the ability to sense energy like Goku. It's possible that he was bragging about Luud's power by seeing his performance alone.

It was before he saw Level 3 Luud in action, so it can only be based on Ki.

[Hitiro]

I don't feel like doing the whole back and forth thing as usual, I think you're missing my point. How relevant is intent to you? Do you believe the intent of "someone besides us or Buu might win" is meant to be taken as Good Buu >>>>>> Uub? That's ridiculous to me. Goku is expecting Buu's reincarnation and Goku calls him exactly what he was expecting. In Toriyama's mind did he want the reader to think Uub was as good as the person he was reincarnated as, or that he's far below that level? It's simple when you don't make up all of these Oh, well this could happen, or this, or this, or this, Goku: I'm expecting Buu's reincarnation", *Goku fights Uub*, Goku: "You're as good as I expected". I can't see the logic behind that meaning Uub is far below Buu.

The intent is simply it is anyone's chance if it is a tournament. It isn't supposed to be Good Boo >>>>> Oob or Oob >>>>> Good Boo. It is simply a statement that someone other than the them could win. Which is true. Because that is the way tournaments play out. Vegeta could win, Pan could win, Trunks could win, Boo could win, Goten could win, Oob could win or Goku could win. It has nothing to do with their strength. Only how the tournament plays out.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I mean the intent behind Goku saying Uub is exactly what he was expecting, when we know Goku was expecting Pure Buu's reincarnation.