What made GT so bad ?

[DBZAOTA482]

How was Cell all that much of a character? He got the ambition of Freeza, Cold, Piccolo and the Saiyajin. That made him curious of this power and arrogant and in the end he also couldn't accept that there was someone stronger. Really the only thing was that he fought because he was interested in it like Goku. But guess what? He turned around and did the same stuff they all did and let his arrogance hinder him, he could not accept it and then tried to just win by destroying everything after he had lost it. That was the prize for winning, Cell, not the way. Same villain kind. Those are normal, just not complex. He had a bit of fairness first. Make them evil and a world destroyer but write them even more of a character. Are they shown reckless and evil? Yes. But after those common traits there comes pretty much nothing. Normal villain traits without extra.

That's one thing that makes Cell's character so cool to me. He was a big mix pot of various characters' personality traits in his DNA.

Even his narcissism among other villains sticks out. Vegeta flips only cuz Goku was among an inferior chain of their race, Freeza feared the Saiyans overthrowing him showing he's coward deep down as demonstrated when Goku beats him, and Majin Boo was more like an immature child who's getting beat in a game whereas Cell genuinely believed he was the perfect being as the computer repeatedly told him. It's like if a child's parent kept forcing this idea that their child was this super special person yet misfortune comes their way and they question it. Not to mention Cell made mistakes he criticized the others for making like you pointed out. No other villain I recall ever did that.

[LuckyCat]

Not to mention Cell embodies the doom of the android-dominated future Trunks narrated at the beginning of the arc. Besides maybe Buu, I don't think any Dragon Ball villain has more backstory than Cell.

And to be fair, GT didn't have long enough a run to make a big backstory for the villains. The villains were monster of the week after Baby.

[One_Instance]

I always saw Cell as a sort of collage of everything that makes Dragon Ball as awesome as it is. He is the ultimate Dragon Ball villain, (he's not my favorite) he is the essence of everything most devastating and evil about the entire story before him.

[Cetra]

I get that part, however except the way it is shown it is just broken down to him having no special, surprising sides of personality. Just arrogant, reckless, sadistic, blah. Baby also wants just revenge but it is somehow more complex - as far as DB is complex - in his character.

[ABED]

I get that part, however except the way it is shown it is just broken down to him having no special, surprising sides of personality. Just arrogant, reckless, sadistic, blah. Baby also wants just revenge but it is somehow more complex - as far as DB is complex - in his character.

He starts off as a slippery sneak of a character, but as he achieves his goal, he becomes more arrogant. What were you expecting?

[Eire]

Instead of making it about the group of characters we know and love, Toriyama introduces a new character and has Goku leave his friends and family to be with him.

Has he ever cared his family?

He wanted to save Gohan from Cell before 16 came in, he sacrificed his life. All that stuff.

One action in heat of the battle. To cite classic- it's way easier to die for than live for. He could fight and sacrifice himself as long as fighting was involved, but doing anything beyond that never crossed his mind.

[ABED]

Goku spends years with his family, but because we don't see it, it doesn't count?

[Eire]

No, because co-habitation doesn't indicate anything. You can live whole life with wife and kids and still never form a bond, because they apparently aren't your business. All we see is them training when he wants to and sometimes playing when he has the mood- he never talks to Gohan what he wants, never consults his decision with Chi-Chi. Sure, he loves them, but he never lets their well-being to stand on the way of his mood.

[ABED]

No, because co-habitation doesn't indicate anything. You can live whole life with wife and kids and still never form a bond, because they apparently aren't your business. All we see is them training when he wants to and sometimes playing when he has the mood- he never talks to Gohan what he wants, never consults his decision with Chi-Chi. Sure, he loves them, but he never lets their well-being to stand on the way of his mood.

That's such a reach. No, Goku's not a great father, but he's not an absent father also. He's there for his son constantly. All we see is them train because the normalcy and mundaneness of family life isn't part of the DNA of the show. What do you mean he never talks to Gohan about what he wants? Wants referring to what? As for their well being, in what way are we talking? Chichi deserves as much of the blame for the marriage as he does. She went into it full well knowing he didn't know what marriage was. He told her he thought it was food and yet she still thought it was a good idea to marry him.

They didn't just live in the same house for all those years. I believe the audience is supposed to assume the Sons had a happy family life.

[DBZAOTA482]

No, because co-habitation doesn't indicate anything. You can live whole life with wife and kids and still never form a bond, because they apparently aren't your business. All we see is them training when he wants to and sometimes playing when he has the mood- he never talks to Gohan what he wants, never consults his decision with Chi-Chi. Sure, he loves them, but he never lets their well-being to stand on the way of his mood.

That's such a reach. No, Goku's not a great father, but he's not an absent father also. He's there for his son constantly. All we see is them train because the normalcy and mundaneness of family life isn't part of the DNA of the show. What do you mean he never talks to Gohan about what he wants? Wants referring to what? As for their well being, in what way are we talking? Chichi deserves as much of the blame for the marriage as he does. She went into it full well knowing he didn't know what marriage was. He told her he thought it was food and yet she still thought it was a good idea to marry him.

He only told her that in the anime. In the manga, he thinks it to himself.

[ABED]

Fair enough, but he doesn't look overly joyed. In fact his reaction is very matter of fact, not exactly the kind of reaction you want in a fiancé. And as I recall when she asked him when they were kids, he's much the same way.

[Eire]

And at the end of the day women are to blame. Sure, she tied him and forced herself on him.
Goku is able to take care of his son in emergency. But he never asks Gohan about what he wants to be. Chi-Chi at least followed the script for then-day mother role model, while Goku never wondered if Gohan wants ot fight. Or wants anything. He just tell them that he decides to stay dead, that he leaves with Uub (ok, blame terrible writting, but still). Not out of malice, but because he never thinks enough.

[ABED]

Don't put words in my mouth. I said she's ALSO to blame. It has nothing to do with her being a woman. Thanks for thinking me a misogynist. Goku for caring the most about battle, but her for having unrealistic expectations and being more in love with love than actually loving Goku.

Goku doesn't have to know and it's not like Chichi asks what Gohan wants to be either. In fact, Goku tells him during the Cell games that if he wants to be a scholar, Cell needs to be defeated first. It doesn't matter if Gohan wants to fight, he's needed, and before Gohan got dragged into the life, Goku never put up a fuss with Chichi.

[DBZAOTA482]

Misogyny..?! Don't turn it into one of those threads!

[ABED]

I didn't, I was clarifying my statement which I didn't think was unclear in regard to putting blame on both individuals, not just Chichi.

[emperior]

First episodes only with Goku, Pan and Trunks SUCKED so much.
Also GT was ALWAYS Goku, Goku, Goku...
It was not enjoyable EXCEPT for very few parts. My opinion though. I liked it since Baby though.
Also Goku always a kid annoyed me a lot.

[Attitudefan]

Tan Goku was a weird decision when everyone else remains roughly the same. I hate tan Goku. He looks so odd.

It's also weird to have him a kid again as we watch the show, we grow up with Goku. Having him revert back and act like a kid again seems jarring, not in a good way either. Worse yet, is that we're to believe that this child, who is played off weaker than his grown self is to be in a plot where the stakes are higher than Buu, Freeza, or the saiyans, yet we cannot believe that when considering we just back tracked with Goku in terms of his physical and mental traits.

[ABED]

Having him revert back and act like a kid again seems jarring, not in a good way either. Worse yet, is that we're to believe that this child, who is played off weaker than his grown self is to be in a plot where the stakes are higher than Buu, Freeza, or the saiyans, yet we cannot believe that when considering we just back tracked with Goku in terms of his physical and mental traits.

Goku is a man-child and how did he backtrack? I don't believe Goku was weaker, just had more limitations.

[Rocketman]

I honestly can't see why people dislike GT but praise the new movies. They're doing the same things.

[KentalSSJ6]

First episodes only with Goku, Pan and Trunks SUCKED so much.
Also GT was ALWAYS Goku, Goku, Goku...
It was not enjoyable EXCEPT for very few parts. My opinion though. I liked it since Baby though.
Also Goku always a kid annoyed me a lot.

You never read Dragonball did you?