Which Trunks is the strongest?

[DBZAOTA482]

Dont remember GT trunks showing anything special,so ill just count him out.

ssj kid trunks would proly be close to ssj adult gohan's level in the buu saga.While gohan did get somewhat weaker,i doubt he dropped so much.Now future trunks,strongest we have seen him was vs Perfect Cell with his Ussj powerup.So id say kid trunks is stronger.

based on what we seen and not what ifs.

Somewhat is an understatement. He fell of to the point where Goku and Vegeta took notice. He's probably 30% weaker than his Cell Games counterpart.

[fadeddreams5]

I don't understand why some people seriously think Goten and Trunks are at the same level as the other saiyans during the Cell Games. Yeah, they're full-powered SSJs in the sense that their moods don't change after transforming and they are able to maintain the form for as long as they want, but that doesn't make them Grade 2 level either. They aren't that strong. There is no way in hell they'd come close to even touching someone like Dabura, for example.

Post-RoSAT, there is no indication they themselves got that much more powerful either; they focused that time on perfecting their fusion. Just because Gotenks can go SSJ2 and SSJ3 does not mean either of them can.

Future Trunks is stronger than Kid Trunks by a MILE.

[supercat]

I don't understand why some people seriously think Goten and Trunks are at the same level as the other saiyans during the Cell Games. Yeah, they're full-powered SSJs in the sense that their moods don't change after transforming and they are able to maintain the form for as long as they want, but that doesn't make them Grade 2 level either. They aren't that strong. There is no way in hell they'd come close to even touching someone like Dabura, for example.

Post-RoSAT, there is no indication they themselves got that much more powerful either; they focused that time on perfecting their fusion. Just because Gotenks can go SSJ2 and SSJ3 does not mean either of them can.

Future Trunks is stronger than Kid Trunks by a MILE.

Future Trunks after two trips to the RoSaT likely far surpasses his present counterpart. I'm one of those fans who have a hard time believing that the boys reached Cell Jr. tier even after their RoSaT training. I could see them somewhat closing in on that realm of power, but no where near catching up to someone like Dabura. I think people tend to forget that the fusion itself is what everyone had put their hope into. Despite the boys having amazing power (with the exclusion of Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo), ultimately, I feel it was the multiplier from the fusion that was so eagerly anticipated. Being a recipient of the astonishing multipliers of a fusion in the past, Piccolo likely figured the boys would benefit from a similar outcome.

Even with two Semi-perfect Cell tier fighters, with their powers combined and multiplied by ten, the results would be quite astounding in comparison to level of power everyone was used to at that point in time.

[Kamiccolo9]

I don't understand why some people seriously think Goten and Trunks are at the same level as the other saiyans during the Cell Games. Yeah, they're full-powered SSJs in the sense that their moods don't change after transforming and they are able to maintain the form for as long as they want, but that doesn't make them Grade 2 level either. They aren't that strong. There is no way in hell they'd come close to even touching someone like Dabura, for example.

Post-RoSAT, there is no indication they themselves got that much more powerful either; they focused that time on perfecting their fusion. Just because Gotenks can go SSJ2 and SSJ3 does not mean either of them can.

Future Trunks is stronger than Kid Trunks by a MILE.

Future Trunks after two trips to the RoSaT likely far surpasses his present counterpart. I'm one of those fans who have a hard time believing that the boys reached Cell Jr. tier even after their RoSaT training. I could see them somewhat closing in on that realm of power, but no where near catching up to someone like Dabura. I think people tend to forget that the fusion itself is what everyone had put their hope into. Despite the boys having amazing power (with the exclusion of Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo), ultimately, I feel it was the multiplier from the fusion that was so eagerly anticipated. Being a recipient of the astonishing multipliers of a fusion in the past, Piccolo likely figured the boys would benefit from a similar outcome.

Even with two Semi-perfect Cell tier fighters, with their powers combined and multiplied by ten, the results would be quite astounding in comparison to level of power everyone was used to at that point in time.

Piccolo was saying that the kids were their only hope before he had ever even heard of Fusion. He was also later completely blown away by the power they put on display, and the kids had a greater effect on Buu than Piccolo did. Virtually everything supports the kids being stronger than Piccolo, who was in the same general tier as a Cell Junior back at the Cell Games.

[fadeddreams5]

Piccolo was saying that the kids were their only hope before he had ever even heard of Fusion.

Wasn't this after Vegeta died, Gohan was thought dead, and Goku was already dead? He knows they're super saiyans and have the capacity to become stronger easily.

He was also later completely blown away by the power they put on display

So were Gohan, Vegeta, and Goku. They're incredibly strong for their age. It's unfathomable to them.

and the kids had a greater effect on Buu than Piccolo did.

Did Piccolo even fight Buu? I don't remember. I just recall Trunk kicking Fat Buu away from Vegeta in a blind shot.

Virtually everything supports the kids being stronger than Piccolo, who was in the same general tier as a Cell Junior back at the Cell Games.

Piccolo was overwhelmed by the Cell Jrs. He was fighting to survive. =P

[Kamiccolo9]

Don't split up my quotes like that. It's annoying.

Piccolo said the kids were their only hope. If he was so much stronger than them, that wouldn't have been an issue.
If anything, the kids performance training against the adults only supports the fact that they're not vastly weaker than them.
I'm talking about when Buu absorbed them. The boys had a much greater effect on Buu's body than Piccolo did.
He was overwhelmed, but he wasn't worlds below them like the Earthlings were. Piccolo was at least able to put up a fight against them.

[supercat]

Future Trunks after two trips to the RoSaT likely far surpasses his present counterpart. I'm one of those fans who have a hard time believing that the boys reached Cell Jr. tier even after their RoSaT training. I could see them somewhat closing in on that realm of power, but no where near catching up to someone like Dabura. I think people tend to forget that the fusion itself is what everyone had put their hope into. Despite the boys having amazing power (with the exclusion of Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo), ultimately, I feel it was the multiplier from the fusion that was so eagerly anticipated. Being a recipient of the astonishing multipliers of a fusion in the past, Piccolo likely figured the boys would benefit from a similar outcome.

Even with two Semi-perfect Cell tier fighters, with their powers combined and multiplied by ten, the results would be quite astounding in comparison to level of power everyone was used to at that point in time.

Piccolo was saying that the kids were their only hope before he had ever even heard of Fusion. He was also later completely blown away by the power they put on display, and the kids had a greater effect on Buu than Piccolo did. Virtually everything supports the kids being stronger than Piccolo, who was in the same general tier as a Cell Junior back at the Cell Games.

I'm not sure if Piccolo necessarily meant that would be the case while the kids were in their current state. He likely had intended on preparing them for the task much like he had intended on doing with Gohan, back during the events of the Saiyan arc.

If you're talking about the form of Buu after Gotenks' fusion wore off, didn't Goku even point out Piccolo's prominence?

Either way, even if Goten and Trunks did have more of an impact on Buu, it could be because their combined powers may have surpassed Piccolo. Even if we assume both of the kids individually are slightly below Grade 2 in terms of power, added together, they should likely be able to more or less reach Cell Jr. tier.

[Kamiccolo9]

Future Trunks after two trips to the RoSaT likely far surpasses his present counterpart. I'm one of those fans who have a hard time believing that the boys reached Cell Jr. tier even after their RoSaT training. I could see them somewhat closing in on that realm of power, but no where near catching up to someone like Dabura. I think people tend to forget that the fusion itself is what everyone had put their hope into. Despite the boys having amazing power (with the exclusion of Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo), ultimately, I feel it was the multiplier from the fusion that was so eagerly anticipated. Being a recipient of the astonishing multipliers of a fusion in the past, Piccolo likely figured the boys would benefit from a similar outcome.

Even with two Semi-perfect Cell tier fighters, with their powers combined and multiplied by ten, the results would be quite astounding in comparison to level of power everyone was used to at that point in time.

Piccolo was saying that the kids were their only hope before he had ever even heard of Fusion. He was also later completely blown away by the power they put on display, and the kids had a greater effect on Buu than Piccolo did. Virtually everything supports the kids being stronger than Piccolo, who was in the same general tier as a Cell Junior back at the Cell Games.

I'm not sure if Piccolo necessarily meant that would be the case while the kids were in their current state. He likely had intended on preparing them for the task much like he had intended on doing with Gohan, back during the events of the Saiyan arc.

If you're talking about the form of Buu after Gotenks' fusion wore off, didn't Goku even point out Piccolo's prominence?

Either way, even if Goten and Trunks did have more of an impact on Buu, it could be because their combined powers may have surpassed Piccolo. Even if we assume both of the kids individually are slightly below Grade 2 in terms of power, added together, they should likely be able to more or less reach Cell Jr. tier.

With Gohan, he had a year.

With Goten and Trunks, Babidi and Buu were on the loose now. How much time do you think he thought they had? Piccolo already had his "OMG these kids are strong" moment at the tournament. When they powered up for Goku on the lookout, Piccolo is blown away again, while Goku is like "yeah, that's what I thought." It's obvious that the kids are being portrayed as stronger than Piccolo.

He said something to the effect of "Piccolo's coming out strong now." Seeing as Piccolo had seemingly no effect on the physical makeup of Buutenks, that makes sense. When we later see Piccolo Buu without Goten and Trunks being in there, Buu's body looks much different. His face is less defined, he doesn't have full fingers, and his head tentacle thing is much shorter.

That's a huge assumption backed by nothing. Virtually everything points to the kids being stronger than Piccolo. Sure, you can individually explain away everything if you pick at it enough, but you can do that with anything in this series. When the main objection is "They just can't be that strong," it's better to just apply the Razor and go with the simplest explanation.

[fadeddreams5]

Piccolo said the kids were their only hope. If he was so much stronger than them, that wouldn't have been an issue.
If anything, the kids performance training against the adults only supports the fact that they're not vastly weaker than them.
I'm talking about when Buu absorbed them. The boys had a much greater effect on Buu's body than Piccolo did.
He was overwhelmed, but he wasn't worlds below them like the Earthlings were. Piccolo was at least able to put up a fight against them.

I feel Piccolo's reached a cap. Him training doesn't really accomplish much anymore and would never allow him to reach Majin Buu's level. I mean, just look at F. On the other hand, Trunks and Goten have limitless potential given a) their mastery of the SSJ state at such a young age and b) Piccolo's knowledge of just how much a saiyan can improve in a short time span. Given the fact that he believed every other saiyan was dead, he saw Goten and Trunks as the only ones capable of beating Buu after training.

Every time Buu absorbed someone strong, his clothes matched the "dominant" absorbee. He absorbed Gotenks and Piccolo at the same exact time. Naturally, his clothes matched the stronger being, Gotenks. When Gotenks defused, his clothes matched Piccolo, who's stronger than them. And then it matched Gohan. That's how I always saw it, anyways. I feel the bodily change (facial and arm features) was more because he had two (later three) humans over one namekian. Like, if he absorbed two of Yakon's race after absorbing Gohan, he'd look like a hideous beast, but his clothes would continue to match Gohan's.

SSJ Trunks and SSJ Vegeta held their own a lot better than Piccolo. Didn't Cell even comment on how those two were the only ones standing a chance, or was that a dub thing? I see Kid Trunks holding his own against Piccolo or Android 18, but later losing or winning in a very close match. On the other hand, Future Trunks wrecks all three of them with little effort (18 trashing confirmed).

[Kamiccolo9]

Piccolo said the kids were their only hope. If he was so much stronger than them, that wouldn't have been an issue.
If anything, the kids performance training against the adults only supports the fact that they're not vastly weaker than them.
I'm talking about when Buu absorbed them. The boys had a much greater effect on Buu's body than Piccolo did.
He was overwhelmed, but he wasn't worlds below them like the Earthlings were. Piccolo was at least able to put up a fight against them.

I feel Piccolo's reached a cap. Him training doesn't really accomplish much anymore and would never allow him to reach Majin Buu's level. I mean, just look at F. On the other hand, Trunks and Goten have limitless potential given a) their mastery of the SSJ state at such a young age and b) Piccolo's knowledge of just how much a saiyan can improve in a short time span. Given the fact that he believed every other saiyan was dead, he saw Goten and Trunks as the only ones capable of beating Buu after training.

Every time Buu absorbed someone strong, his clothes matched the "dominant" absorbee. He absorbed Gotenks and Piccolo at the same exact time. Naturally, his clothes matched the stronger being, Gotenks. When Gotenks defused, his clothes matched Piccolo, who's stronger than them. And then it matched Gohan. That's how I always saw it, anyways. I feel the bodily change (facial and arm features) was more because he had two (later three) humans over one namekian. Like, if he absorbed two of Yakon's race after absorbing Gohan, he'd look like a hideous beast, but his clothes would continue to match Gohan's.

SSJ Trunks and SSJ Vegeta held their own a lot better than Piccolo. Didn't Cell even comment on how those two were the only ones standing a chance, or was that a dub thing? I see Kid Trunks holding his own against Piccolo or Android 18, but later losing or winning in a very close match. On the other hand, Future Trunks wrecks all three of them with little effort (18 trashing confirmed).

Them being able to get stronger isn't the point. The point is time. As I said in my previous post, with Gohan, he had a year to train him. In the Buu Arc, Babidi and Buu were destroying the Earth now.

Again, look at the differences between the two Piccolo Buus. Even their clothes are vastly different. Piccolo contributed a cape to the first one. That's it. If anything, that shows that Goten and Trunks had a greater effect on Buu's clothing than Piccolo did, since soon as the kids were gone, Buu got Piccolo's gi.

The phrasing Cell uses indicates that Vegeta, Trunks, and one or more others were holding their own. We see in the manga that Piccolo is the only other one standing. Common sense would dictate that Cell was referring to Piccolo in the "one or more others" part of that comment.

The only real argument against Goten and Trunks just being that strong is "they can't be that strong. They just can't!" Which isn't a real argument at all.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

This sounds like kid nerfing. Goten was considered a good sparring partner for MSS Gohan. Yes, Gohan was rusty, but Goten was never properly trained like Gohan, who has much more experience than Goten. Yes, Gohan is weaker than his kid self, but he's strong enough to put up a fight against Dabra, who's compared to the Cell that tooled CG Goku.

Buu saga Gohan ~ Cell Games Goku >~ Buu saga Goten, at the very least.

[fadeddreams5]

Them being able to get stronger isn't the point. The point is time. As I said in my previous post, with Gohan, he had a year to train him. In the Buu Arc, Babidi and Buu were destroying the Earth now.

The RoSAT is a thing now though.

Again, look at the differences between the two Piccolo Buus. Even their clothes are vastly different. Piccolo contributed a cape to the first one. That's it. If anything, that shows that Goten and Trunks had a greater effect on Buu's clothing than Piccolo did, since soon as the kids were gone, Buu got Piccolo's gi.

Wait... what do you mean by two Piccolo Buus?

The phrasing Cell uses indicates that Vegeta, Trunks, and one or more others were holding their own. We see in the manga that Piccolo is the only other one standing. Common sense would dictate that Cell was referring to Piccolo in the "one or more others" part of that comment.

Okay, so I guess this was just a dub line:
https://youtu.be/qANrbKYQE2g?t=2m50s

Also, after rewatching that battle, it's clear Piccolo is no where near Cell Jr. tier, and there's really nothing indicating that he closed that gap in 7 years, tbh. Buu saga Piccolo didn't really have any feats at all, but it's clear in F he's not that much stronger. =P

Even if Goten and Trunks are stronger than Piccolo, there's really no proof that they're grade 2 level either, or above Future Trunks.

[Kamiccolo9]

I'm not going to bother responding if you keep splitting up my posts like that.

They didn't even think to use the RoSaT until Super Buu showed up.

There are two different Piccolo Buu's. I assume you have read the manga?

Forget the dub, and forget the anime. Neither reflect the more specific quotes in the manga very well. The line is in Herms' strength checker; look it up.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Even if Goten and Trunks are stronger than Piccolo, there's really no proof that they're grade 2 level either, or above Future Trunks.

Spoiler:

[fadeddreams5]

I'm not going to bother responding if you keep splitting up my posts like that.

They didn't even think to use the RoSaT until Super Buu showed up.

There are two different Piccolo Buu's. I assume you have read the manga?

Forget the dub, and forget the anime. Neither reflect the more specific quotes in the manga very well. The line is in Herms' strength checker; look it up.

Sorry. I like piecing unrelated comments apart. =P

I just recall Piccolo Buu when Gotenks defuses. Did he change back into Piccolo Buu while Goku and Vegeta were inside him?

Sort of weird to admit in Kanzenshuu, but I have not read the manga. Just watched the original sub, funi dub, and Kai. That's why I was asking; only vaguely remembered the scene.

Didn't know about Herms' topic.
Chapter: 407 (DBZ 213), P5.3
Context: as the Cell Juniors beat everyone up
Cell (to Gohan): “If you don’t show your true worth soon, things will go past the point of no return. Look closely. Vegeta or Trunks are barely fighting evenly…Even Son Goku is in trouble, having lost his stamina…”

He does say it in the manga too.

Even if Goten and Trunks are stronger than Piccolo, there's really no proof that they're grade 2 level either, or above Future Trunks.

Spoiler:

What does that say?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

What does that say?

Goten is powerful enough to force Gohan to use effort, flare his aura, and grit his teeth... the spar is in no way one-sided.. it shows they are close in power, otherwise, the sparring session would've looked like this:

Spoiler:

[Kamiccolo9]

You left out Herms' note at under the quote, which was the whole reason I pointed you there.
Chapter: 407 (DBZ 213), P5.3
Context: as the Cell Juniors beat everyone up
Cell (to Gohan): “If you don’t show your true worth soon, things will go past the point of no return. Look closely. Vegeta or Trunks are barely fighting evenly…Even Son Goku is in trouble, having lost his stamina…”
Note: Cell says that “Vegeta ya Trunks” are fighting evenly; ya is a non-exhaustive word for ‘and’, meaning the things listed aren’t necessarily the only things there are to list. In other words, Cell’s line doesn’t necessarily mean that nobody but Trunks or Vegeta are fighting evenly, just that they’re the first examples to come to mind.
The cover of that chapter shows everyone being beaten up by the Cell Juniors. Vegeta, Trunks, and Piccolo are the only ones still standing. The anime adds a ton of filler to that fight.

There are two Piccolo Buus. The first is the one you are talking about, with Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks.


The other is Buu with just Piccolo. He's not in the anime.



I think it's pretty apparent what the differences are. As for the number of Earthling/Saiyans involved, Buutenks looked far more "human" than Piccolo Buu did, and there were an equal number of different species inside him.

[fadeddreams5]

That's pretty cool that there is a form of Buu not present in the anime. Not much I can say in that regard.

What does that say?

Goten is powerful enough to force Gohan to use effort, flare his aura, and grit his teeth... the spar is in no way one-sided.. it shows they are close in power, otherwise, the sparring session would've looked like this:

Spoiler:

Well, I definitely feel Goten and Trunks are stronger than Future Trunks up until he enters the RoSAT. But is there further proof that would show Kid Trunks is the same level as Future Trunks when he curbstomps the androids of his timeline?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Well, Goten sparring on par with Gohan should be enough proof to show they're all in the same relative ballpark, Gohan was also worried about being outstripped by the two due to them play fighting. The Daizenshuu also says Goten has battle power not the least bit inferior to Gohan's.

[shonenhikada]

Lol you guys still talking about this ? GT trunks has been confirmed SSJ3 tier. He outranks every other version of himself.