How exactly Gohan could have been better in the Boo arc

[DBZGTKOSDH]

No, I'm criticizing faff Gohan. The last time he slacked off, Buu happened. Then the Tarble incident, then Billy knocks him down at his full power and his reaction iiiiis...

Even if he had became a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, he would still be useless. Goku & Vegeta are stronger than him, and unlike him, the keep training & getting stronger, and even if someone was to come that Goku & Vegeta together can't beat, they can still use Fusion, or the Potara. If even Gogeta or Vegetto can't do the job, Gohan definitely won't be able to be of any help.

And even ignoring the new stuff, Gohan kept slacking off even in the manga.

[Doctor.]

Gohan is only weaker than Goku and Vegeta now.

If he had gotten the SSG power-up when he still had his ultimate state, he would be stronger than them both.

[fadeddreams5]

No, I'm criticizing faff Gohan. The last time he slacked off, Buu happened. Then the Tarble incident, then Billy knocks him down at his full power and his reaction iiiiis...

Even if he had became a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, he would still be useless. Goku & Vegeta are stronger than him, and unlike him, the keep training & getting stronger, and even if someone was to come that Goku & Vegeta together can't beat, they can still use Fusion, or the Potara. If even Gogeta or Vegetto can't do the job, Gohan definitely won't be able to be of any help.

And even ignoring the new stuff, Gohan kept slacking off even in the manga.

Gohan is not a real person. Just like they rewrote him into a wimp, they can undo that and make him Superman, reintroduce his "hidden powers," make them into something unique to him, and so on. He can train while being a scholar, or it can be established that, post-ritual, his powers have continued to increase on their own without the need for training. Basically, they can go MANY directions with the character, even now. It just so happens they have no interest in doing anything with Gohan anymore, which is why fans actually prefer them retiring him than having to watch this train wreck of a character anymore.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If he had gotten the SSG power-up when he still had his ultimate state, he would be stronger than them both.

Would he? Ultimate draws out the dormant power beyond its limits, like SS/2/3 draw out dormant power, while Super Saiyan God goes far beyond that on an entirely different level. I don't think Ultimate & SSGod would mix together and become something greater, SSGod would just come on top of it. As we saw in BoG, Gohan can power-up into Ultimate, or transform into a Super Saiyan, and his base state, which is weaker than Goku & Vegeta, is still there. So, SSGod Gohan would have been weaker than SSGod Goku.

Gohan is not a real person. Just like they rewrote him into a wimp

What are you talking about? JSAT/BoG/FnF Gohan is no different from manga Gohan.

[Rocketman]

Gohan is not a real person. Just like they rewrote him into a wimp

What are you talking about? JSAT/BoG/FnF Gohan is no different from manga Gohan.

JSAT isn't, but faff is. Mostly because they stripped his Mystic powerup away, which altered his personality to be colder and eager to fight.

[sbk]

Goku never slacked off and became weaker. After the 23rd tournament, he kept training and got stronger, keeping his edge over Piccolo's level, who also trained. Radditz was simply too strong and so he needed help.

But after Goku died, the humans trained for just a year and already surpassed Raditz (they were able to beat Saibamen which were equal to Raditz iirc)

Raditz was only too strong because Goku didn't really train. Had Goku trained within those four years he would've easily beaten Raditz..

[DBZGTKOSDH]

JSAT isn't, but bog/faff is. Mostly because they stripped his Mystic powerup away, which altered his personality to be colder and eager to fight.

His personality changes when he turns Ultimate, just like it changes when a Saiyan becomes a Super Saiyan (pre-mastering), Super Saiyan 2, and Super Saiyan 3.

[Rocketman]

JSAT isn't, but bog/faff is. Mostly because they stripped his Mystic powerup away, which altered his personality to be colder and eager to fight.

His personality changes when he turns Ultimate, just like it changes when a Saiyan becomes a Super Saiyan (pre-mastering), Super Saiyan 2, and Super Saiyan 3.

Mystic isn't a transformation, it's his new baseline.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

JSAT isn't, but bog/faff is. Mostly because they stripped his Mystic powerup away, which altered his personality to be colder and eager to fight.

His personality changes when he turns Ultimate, just like it changes when a Saiyan becomes a Super Saiyan (pre-mastering), Super Saiyan 2, and Super Saiyan 3.

Mystic isn't a transformation, it's his new baseline.

The manga heavily implies that it works like a transformation.

[rereboy]

Goku never slacked off and became weaker. After the 23rd tournament, he kept training and got stronger, keeping his edge over Piccolo's level, who also trained. Radditz was simply too strong and so he needed help.

But after Goku died, the humans trained for just a year and already surpassed Raditz (they were able to beat Saibamen which were equal to Raditz iirc)

Raditz was only too strong because Goku didn't really train. Had Goku trained within those four years he would've easily beaten Raditz..

No, that's just inconsistent writing regarding power levels and how much fighters benefit from training. Fighters have always benefited from training exactly what the plot wanted them to benefit and if we look at it too hard we spot the inconsistencies.

You are confusing that simple notion with Goku, in-universe, not training or slacking off. Roshi even comments that Goku seemed to be as strong as ever when he threw that rock at the ocean before Radditz arrived, giving the queue to the reader that he hasn't slacked off at all. In Gohan's case, we are told, several times, that he has slacked off.

[ABED]

You can also chalk some of that up to neccessity is the mother of invention or fear being a great motivator. There's nothing quite like knowing a strong enemy is on their way to push someone. The heroes greatest leaps were always made in short periods where they were up against seemingly overwhelming odds.

[LuckyCat]

I agree that it's not like Goku slacked off, it's more like Radditz was a Wake-Up Call Boss, which showed the inadequacy of his past training.

Gohan's slacking was actually a plot point, basically informing us that Gohan was no longer the strongest and was not ready to fight Majin Buu.

[fadeddreams5]

What are you talking about? JSAT/BoG/FnF Gohan is no different from manga Gohan.

I'm referring to when they changed him after the Cell Games.

You're saying even if they power him up, he'll be useless because of his nature. But that doesn't have to be the case. It's all up to the writing, and he can still be developed into something respectable--they just refuse to do so.

[Doctor.]

They didn't change him after the Cell Games, they just went back to how his character was in the Namek arc. They changed him from the Namek arc to the Cell Games.

Cell Games Gohan is almost like a completely different character. He's so unsure of what he is, what he wants to do and what he has to do, similar to Saiyan arc Gohan. Gohan in the Boo arc and Namek arc knew what they HAD to do and who they were.

[Gaffer Tape]

You are confusing that simple notion with Goku, in-universe, not training or slacking off. Roshi even comments that Goku seemed to be as strong as ever when he threw that rock at the ocean before Radditz arrived, giving the queue to the reader that he hasn't slacked off at all. In Gohan's case, we are told, several times, that he has slacked off.

While I agree with your main point of battle powers and characters being as strong as they need to be, the reader would never have gotten that particular cue you mention from Toriyama because the rock-throwing bit is filler. No indication is made in the manga as to whether Goku is stronger, weaker, or the same as he had been during the 23rd Budoukai.

[fadeddreams5]

They didn't change him after the Cell Games, they just went back to how his character was in the Namek arc. They changed him from the Namek arc to the Cell Games.

Great Saiyaman. >_>;

I like Teen Gohan's personality, but he's quirky compared to his younger self, who was more soft-spoken and reserved.

And they decided to make him weaker by the Buu saga. There was no need for that.

[Doctor.]

They didn't change him after the Cell Games, they just went back to how his character was in the Namek arc. They changed him from the Namek arc to the Cell Games.

Great Saiyaman. >_>;

I like Teen Gohan's personality, but he's quirky compared to his younger self, who was more soft-spoken and reserved.

And they decided to make him weaker by the Buu saga. There was no need for that.

Yea, and we've totally had time to see kid Gohan exhibit the same personality in all that time they had to train to prepare for a new threat

As far as we know, kid Gohan post Saiyan arc could have been just as quirky as Boo arc Gohan who's allowed to be so carefree and outspoken because he's living times of peace.

[fadeddreams5]

Regardless, I was mainly referring to how they decided to make him a weaker character after the Cell Games. If the writer wants to make him the strongest again or give him a motivation to train, he can. Saying, "Gohan can't be strong anymore because he doesn't like to train and it's against his nature!" is an invalid argument.

[Doctor.]

They have a cheap as fuck asspull plot device (SSG) waiting there to be used and can be used on EVERY SAIYAN they have on the team at the moment, so I'm no sure why it's an argument now either.

[MYSTICisPOWER]

If were talking about Gohan getting stronger again I think it be cool if it came from his earthling side. One of AT's early ideas was that the off-spring of Saiyan and Earthling had this mysterious and incredible power. That idea has since been forgotten and now we have the earthling part of the half-breeds being a detriment to there fighting skills. The Pure-Saiyans do all the major work.

Have there be some element of the Half-breeds that allows them to attain a new maximum so they can be on par with SSG but not be SSG. Something that has to deal with Earth. I think this idea should have been apart of Gohan's character all a long, including boo arc.