Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
With all the recent hypothetical battles involving Babidi's big darkness dwelling lackey, I figure I'd put together a little gauntlet to see where you all think he stands. The range in powers is quite substantial, so feel free to express your individual opinions on how you feel the monster compares to the fighters listed below. If possible, please try to back your opinions up with some references.
First Form Freeza (before training)
Second Form Freeza (before training)
Third Form Freeza (before training)
Final Form Freeza (against Base Goku, before training)
Final Form Freeza 25% (before training)
Final Form Freeza 50% (before training)
Final Form Freeza 100% (before training)
Mecha Freeza 100%
King Cold
Android 19
Android 20
Android 17
Android 18
Android 16
Imperfect Cell
Semi-perfect Cell
Scrapes past Final Form Freeza before hitting a wall against Final Form Freeza 25%.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Ran Fuan (no stripping) vs. Yamcha
Yamcha wrecks Ran Fuan... and then defeats her in battle. HI-YO.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Round 1: Wu Xing Long in the size that he was when he fought SSj4 Goku vs. Bio Broli
Round 2: Wu Xing Long in his giant form vs. Giant Bio Broli
Rules:
The battle takes place in a hot sunny area with no water around the idea and no sign of rain happening
Wu Xing Long can't grow bigger in round 1
Balance power levels in both rounds
With all the recent hypothetical battles involving Babidi's big darkness dwelling lackey, I figure I'd put together a little gauntlet to see where you all think he stands. The range in powers is quite substantial, so feel free to express your individual opinions on how you feel the monster compares to the fighters listed below. If possible, please try to back your opinions up with some references.
First Form Freeza (before training)
Second Form Freeza (before training)
Third Form Freeza (before training)
Final Form Freeza (against Base Goku, before training)
Final Form Freeza 25% (before training)
Final Form Freeza 50% (before training)
Final Form Freeza 100% (before training)
Mecha Freeza 100%
King Cold
Android 19
Android 20
Android 17
Android 18
Android 16
Imperfect Cell
Semi-perfect Cell
Scrapes past Final Form Freeza before hitting a wall against Final Form Freeza 25%.
Pretty much where I feel Yakon stands as well. The higher end of the spectrum for him would be at the best around Final Form Frieza 25%.
More battles for the poor monster:
Zarbon vs Yakon (equal power, unlimited stamina)
Recoome vs Yakon (equal power, unlimited stamina)
Nappa vs Yakon (equal power, unlimited stamina)
Hellspawn28 wrote:Wu Xing Long (Rage Shenron) vs. Bio Broli
Round 1: Wu Xing Long in the size that he was when he fought SSj4 Goku vs. Bio Broli
Round 2: Wu Xing Long in his giant form vs. Giant Bio Broli
Rules:
The battle takes place in a hot sunny area with no water around the idea and no sign of rain happening
Wu Xing Long can't grow bigger in round 1
Balance power levels in both rounds
supercat wrote:Zarbon vs Yakon (equal power, unlimited stamina)
Recoome vs Yakon (equal power, unlimited stamina)
Nappa vs Yakon (equal power, unlimited stamina)
Yakon wins all those match ups via Light/Energy/Aura drain
Zombie wrote:Piccolo (Gohan + Krillin Ki) vs Gohan (vs 3rd form Freeza).
Piccolo (Gohan + Krillin Ki) vs 3rd form Freeza.
- Gohan still wins. But it's a hard fought victory.
- Piccolo gets stomped
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Cyborg Taopaipai (23rd) vs. Old Piccolo Daimao (less than half - the power he used against Goku)
SUPER DODOMPA..!!!
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Cyborg Taopaipai (23rd) vs. Old Piccolo Daimao (less than half - the power he used against Goku)
I would give this to Cyborg Taopaipai. In addition to his exceptional skill in combat, the cunning mercenary probably had the luxury of having his durability substantially upgraded.
More battles:
Taopaipai vs Frieza (equal power, unlimited stamina)
Cyborg Taopaipai vs Frieza (equal power, unlimited stamina)
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Cyborg Taopaipai (23rd) vs. Old Piccolo Daimao (less than half - the power he used against Goku)
I would give this to Cyborg Taopaipai. In addition to his exceptional skill in combat, the cunning mercenary probably had the luxury of having his durability substantially upgraded.
More battles:
Taopaipai vs Freeza (equal power, unlimited stamina)
Cyborg Taopaipai vs Freeza (equal power, unlimited stamina)
Freeza wins due to attrition.
Anyways...
Dying Raditz vs. Mr. Satan Krillin (Boo Saga) vs. Yamcha (Android Saga) ;equal power level Chi-Chi (23rd Budokai) vs. Goku (22nd Budokai) and Tenshinhan (22nd Budokai) ;fights both individually, no recovery time Krillin (first appearance) vs. Bear Thief
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
DBZAOTA482 wrote:Chi-Chi (23rd Budokai) vs. Goku (22nd Budokai) and Tenshinhan (22nd Budokai) ;fights both individually, no recovery time
Chichi slaughters them. She was confident in taking on Son after seeing him one-shot Chappa, and I personally feel Chappa's confidence in going against Goku at the 23rd implies he's well above Goku's 22nd Budokai level.
tl,dr; Chichi (23rd) >>> King Chappa (23rd) >>/> Goku (22nd) ~ Tenshinhan (22nd)
Krillin (first appearance) vs. Bear Thief
Krillin wins in my opinion. I don't see Goku one-shotting Krillin as effortlessly as he did Bear Thief.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Cyborg Taopaipai (23rd) vs. Old Piccolo Daimao (less than half - the power he used against Goku)
I would give this to Cyborg Taopaipai. In addition to his exceptional skill in combat, the cunning mercenary probably had the luxury of having his durability substantially upgraded.
More battles:
Taopaipai vs Freeza (equal power, unlimited stamina)
Cyborg Taopaipai vs Freeza (equal power, unlimited stamina)
Freeza wins due to attrition.
Anyways...
Dying Raditz vs. Mr. Satan Krillin (Boo Saga) vs. Yamcha (Android Saga) ;equal power level Chi-Chi (23rd Budokai) vs. Goku (22nd Budokai) and Tenshinhan (22nd Budokai) ;fights both individually, no recovery time Krillin (first appearance) vs. Bear Thief
-If you mean dying Raditz as in after he's had the unfortunate pleasure of taking a direct hit from a Makankosappo, and while he's half dead on the floor, I'd say this could be Mr. Satan's first chance of victory against a non-human fighter.
-If you throw in Krillin's superior proficiency in combat, with his higher levels of courage, and the experience he's probably gained from Namek, this battle probably gets added onto the long list of Yamcha's humiliating moments.
-I'd say Chi Chi loses both of these rounds.
-Krillin trumps the thuggish bear with the utmost ease.
More Battles:
Yamcha vs Piccolo (Yamcha has a 25% advantage in power, unlimited stamina for both)
Nail vs Frieza (equal power, unlimited stamina)
-
25% advantage as in 25% stronger (1.25x)? Or as in Piccolo is 75% of Yamcha? Either way Piccolo's getting stomped. Vegeta was 75% of KKx3 Goku and look how horrible of a stomp that was.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:25% advantage as in 25% stronger (1.25x)? Or as in Piccolo is 75% of Yamcha? Either way Piccolo's getting stomped. Vegeta was 75% of KKx3 Goku and look how horrible of a stomp that was.
My battle:
Man-Wolf (22nd) vs. Namu (21st)
Namu takes this.... Man-Wolf is a nobody.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:25% advantage as in 25% stronger (1.25x)? Or as in Piccolo is 75% of Yamcha? Either way Piccolo's getting stomped. Vegeta was 75% of KKx3 Goku and look how horrible of a stomp that was.
Well I guess either could be applicable, but I was more so leaning towards Piccolo being at around 75% of Yamcha.
Vegeta was facing an exceptionally gifted fighter who also happened to possess the innate ability of a true fighting genius. Yamacha is miles away from ever having the privilege of being categorized with such talent. If you couple his incompetency with Piccolo's almost unrivaled battle prowess and strategic ingenuity, the 25% gap suddenly doesn't seem so large anymore. Let's also not forget about the Namekian's superior arsenal of techniques.
supercat wrote:Vegeta was facing an exceptionally gifted fighter who also happened to possess the innate ability of a true fighting genius. Yamacha is miles away from ever having the privilege of being categorized with such talent. If you couple his incompetency with Piccolo's almost unrivaled battle prowess and strategic ingenuity, the 25% gap suddenly doesn't seem so large anymore. Let's also not forget about the Namekian's superior arsenal of techniques.
Piccolo's "unrivaled battle prowess and strategic ingenuity" couldn't help him overwhelm Android 17 who he was evenly matched with. Besides, skill has never really "closed" any gaps in DBZ.
supercat wrote:Vegeta was facing an exceptionally gifted fighter who also happened to possess the innate ability of a true fighting genius. Yamacha is miles away from ever having the privilege of being categorized with such talent. If you couple his incompetency with Piccolo's almost unrivaled battle prowess and strategic ingenuity, the 25% gap suddenly doesn't seem so large anymore. Let's also not forget about the Namekian's superior arsenal of techniques.
Piccolo's "unrivaled battle prowess and strategic ingenuity" couldn't help him overwhelm Android 17 who he was evenly matched with. Besides, skill has never really "closed" any gaps in DBZ.
While skill has never really bridged any significant gaps in DBZ, I'm pretty confident it would make a notable difference against an absurdly incompetent fighter. Even if we exclude Yamacha's natural tendency to fail, the amount of experience Piccolo has gained from fighting beings like Frieza, 17, and Cell shouldn't be overlooked. Additionally, if Piccolo's adept battle knowledge wasn't exclusive to the Namekian, Buutenks would have likely tried to absorb Tien, who likely possessed far more impressive levels of battle prowess than Yamcha.
As for 17, I always felt that he was well equipped with the right arsenal of capabilities to match any of the Z-Fighters in hand to hand combat. Although Gero's calculations may have resulted in an inaccurate assessment of battle powers, I find it hard to believe that he couldn't even supply his creations with the bare minimum of possessing an adequate caliber of combat skills.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
