The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

- Well, I read something about that is said in GT Perfect Files that SSJ4 Goku has the same power as Super Vegetto

- Thanks for the link!

- The Perfect Files never say that. It was bonus info within the anime comic for the GT special. All it says, is that Vegetto is perhaps stronger than Super Saiyan 4, it gives no distinction of which form of Vegetto, so it could just mean SS3 Vegetto. Besides, Super Vegetto being in SS4 Goku's league is questionable, considering there is a substantial amount of evidence to the contrary (including Rild and by extension Base Goku potentially being above Gohan-Buu). Not that Super Vegetto being in SS4 Goku's league is incorrect, you can believe that if you'd like, but it's certainly not fact.

- No problem.

---

Chichi (23rd) vs. Old Piccolo Daimao (<50%)

[supercat]

Base Goten(Post-ROSAT) vs SSJ Future Gohan

SSJ Future Gohan takes with the utmost ease.

Beerus made it pretty clear that Base Goku (BoG) is still quite not at the caliber of Freeza.

SSJ Goten (pre RoSaT) should be a better fight for SSJ Future Gohan. However, if the kid goes SSJ after completing his training inside the RoSaT, SSJ Future Gohan has no chance whatsoever.

Another Battle:
Piccolo (after training with King Kai) vs Zarbon (transformed) and Dodoria

I agree that Goten doesn't have a chance but holy hell how weak do you have him for SSJ Future Gohan can give him a fight when he turns SSJ?

Piccolo dominates Zarbon and Dodoria quite easily. This is not a battle, this is a massacre.

I honestly feel that neither Goten or Trunks (pre-RoSaT) are anything special. Generously speaking, I'd say their SSJ forms are probably at the level of SSJ Future Gohan. On the lower end of that scale, I'd say they're more or less at around SSJ Goku (against Frieza). Based on Trunks' struggle in the gravity room, I wouldn't be surprised if their base forms were even weaker than Goku's base form (against Frieza). I don't buy that whole gravity and strength aren't synonymous concept either.

Android 18 vs Aka

Future Android 18 vs SSJ Vegeta (Android Arc)

Oozaru King Vegeta vs Captain Ginyu - No body change, assume King Vegeta has full control of the form

Cui and Dodoria vs Zarbon (no transformation)

-Aka trashes 18.

-Could go either way, but if they are that close in power, 18 would likely secure the victory with her unrivaled stamina.

Vegeta (To himself): "I guess that fool's warning held some truth to it after all." (To 18): "As pathetic as you are, I'm rather impressed you were able to make it this far. You should be flattered that a bottom tiered creation like yourself was able to keep up with my unparalleled talent. It's not every day one can encounter someone of my caliber.. That's especially true for a malfunctioning mechanical piece of trash"

18 (smirks): "So you still haven't learned to control that tongue.. Well that's unfortunate, because I was hoping I could really beat some respect into you before I concluded your little struggle for survival."

Vegeta (chuckles): "Trying to bluff your way out of this are you? Hm.. Well save your breath Android, because you die here and now!" (Angrily fires his Galick Gun)

Vegeta (realizing 18 is unscathed): "What?! How the hell are you still standing?!"

18 (softly laughing): "So, I guess being a Saiyan really doesn't guarantee you all the perks after all. To give you some insight, that attack might have worked when our fight first started, but in your current state.. well, I'd be lying if I told you that I felt that. My technological makeup prevents me from falling victim to something as petty as the limitations of my own stamina."

Vegeta: "Damn.. What the hell are you?!"

18: "No need to stall with redundancy, now that I've gotten my point across, I guess it's okay for me to kill you" (charges towards Vegeta, instantly vanishes, appears behind his back, and blasts him to death)

------------------------------

-Ginyu should be able to take this with relative ease. The Oozaru transformation should put the Saiyan king's power right around the low 100,000 tier. Unfortunately for the proud king, that's still 20,000 away from the captain.

Captain Ginyu (mockingly): "Ha! I'd hate to rain on your parade, but that little barbaric showcase of yours still wasn't enough to close the gap between our powers! And here I was worried I'd have to sacrifice my aesthetically pleasing appearance to switch bodies with a behemoth like you.

------------------------------

-Cui would try to pull a dumb trick on Zarbon, but the conceited warrior would see right through it, and one-shot the pathetic lackey. Dodoria would then use this opportunity to relentlessly attack Zarbon. The outcome would entail a dead Zarbon and an exhausted Dodoria who would happily be gloating under his breath.

Fight starts off with both Cui and Dodoria surrounding Zarbon.

Cui: "Look Zarbon, it's Vegeta, and what do you know! He's got a Dragon Ball!"

Zarbon (Smirks): "Hah.. Cui, your jokes have gotten quite old over the years.. too bad you won't be getting the same privilege!" (proceeds to blast Cui)

Cui (while being obliterated): "Ahhhhh!"

Zarbon (takes a deep breath, but is cut short)

Dodoria (to Zarbon immediately after Cui's demise): "You forget something pretty boy?!?!" (begins to fire a fury of ki blasts at his comrade)

Zarbon (while being obliterated): "Dodoria you little... scum!!!" (poof! Zarbon's body disappears with the explosion)

Dodoria (while catching his breath): "Quite the fitting ending for the idiot who suppressed his full power for the sake of his appearance."

Dodoria (still catching his breath, but starting to form a smile): "Cui.. that fool.. his tricks may have been useless, but he makes one hell of a diversion."


New Battle:
Aka vs Semi-perfect Cell

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I honestly feel that neither Goten or Trunks (pre-RoSaT) are anything special. Generously speaking, I'd say their SSJ forms are probably at the level of SSJ Future Gohan. On the lower end of that scale, I'd say they're more or less at around SSJ Goku (against Freeza).

You think someone as weak as Future Gohan would make FPSS Gohan grit his teeth, sweat profusely, flare his aura, and even force him into the air to avoid a hit? Or scrape SS Vegeta's face? Or make 18 freak out over their power?

[supercat]

I honestly feel that neither Goten or Trunks (pre-RoSaT) are anything special. Generously speaking, I'd say their SSJ forms are probably at the level of SSJ Future Gohan. On the lower end of that scale, I'd say they're more or less at around SSJ Goku (against Freeza).

You think someone as weak as Future Gohan would make FPSS Gohan grit his teeth, sweat profusely, flare his aura, and even force him into the air to avoid a hit? Or scrape SS Vegeta's face? Or make 18 freak out over their power?

I doubt Vegeta or Gohan were taking their sparring sessions with the little ones too seriously.

Even being the brute he is, I find it extremely unlikely for Vegeta to suddenly unleash his full power on a boy who was just shown struggling with 150x gravity. Couple that with his tendency to underestimate anyone and everyone but himself, and I could easily envision a kid SSJ scraping his face.

While it is a bit odd that Gohan was hinting towards the side of having mild trouble against his kid brother, I'm still inclined to believe that he was only using a fraction of his true abilities. I don't expect him to abruptly skyrocket his power (Goku vs Jeice and Burter style) against his younger brother, who he likely at the time presumed wasn't very strong.

Between Base Trunks having a hard time with 150x gravity, and the absence of serious training for both kids, I'm going to have a hard time believing that they were as strong as most people proclaim.

[AvatarReiko]

I honestly feel that neither Goten or Trunks (pre-RoSaT) are anything special. Generously speaking, I'd say their SSJ forms are probably at the level of SSJ Future Gohan. On the lower end of that scale, I'd say they're more or less at around SSJ Goku (against Freeza).

You think someone as weak as Future Gohan would make FPSS Gohan grit his teeth, sweat profusely, flare his aura, and even force him into the air to avoid a hit? Or scrape SS Vegeta's face? Or make 18 freak out over their power?

I doubt Vegeta or Gohan were taking their sparring sessions with the little ones too seriously.

The idea of training is to get stronger. You can't really do that that holding back or if your partner is nowhere near your level. Do you really think that Gohan or Goku would have improved as much as they did if the other was holding back/not taking it seriously. For Gohan to get stronger, Goten would lat east have to have been at level whereby he could at least compete with him. Otherwise, what's the the point?

[Sora Saiyan]

- Well, I read something about that is said in GT Perfect Files that SSJ4 Goku has the same power as Super Vegetto

- Thanks for the link!

- The Perfect Files never say that. It was bonus info within the anime comic for the GT special. All it says, is that Vegetto is perhaps stronger than Super Saiyan 4, it gives no distinction of which form of Vegetto, so it could just mean SS3 Vegetto.

To be fair, the quote does have a little bit more to it than that. It could be argued to actually be leaning towards SSJ Vegetto, but that's a different debate.
For anybody who wants to see.

Merging With Vegeta!
After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegetto! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegetto! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!

All that really says is just Vegetto is perhaps greater than Super Saiyan 4, it doesn't specify which form of Vegetto is actually greater than SS4 Goku.

Again, Super Vegetto being on par with SS4 Goku is questionable given the mountain of evidence within the actual show, while not necessarily incorrect, is not fact.

[Sora Saiyan]

Yeah it's just opinions I go with Super Vegetto being equal, and it's possible to work it that way. I just wanted to give people the entire quote so they could make up their mind on it. That's all, I'm not getting into a debate on this.

Oh and I include the first part to the paragraph aswell. But again it's opinions.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I don't really see what's important about the first part. It's not a comparison in any way.

[Sora Saiyan]

I don't really see what's important about the first part. It's not a comparison in any way.

Just because it mentions he can further become a SSJ, and it stops there. To me it's only talking about him as a SSJ because of that, nothing further. This isn't the place for this debate anyway.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

All it's saying is that he can transform into a Super Saiyan, presumably just summing up what he did in Z when he was around, it's not a comparison. If it was meant to only mean Super Vegetto only, they would've should've mentioned in the sentence with the actual comparison to Super Saiyan 4.

[DBZAOTA482]

Chichi (23rd) vs. Old Piccolo Daimao (<50%)

Chi-Chi spanks him for trying to rule the Earth.

[supercat]

Chichi (23rd) vs. Old Piccolo Daimao (<50%)

Chi Chi should be able to handle the evil Namekian without much trouble.

The idea of training is to get stronger. You can't really do that that holding back or if your partner is nowhere near your level. Do you really think that Gohan or Goku would have improved as much as they did if the other was holding back/not taking it seriously. For Gohan to get stronger, Goten would lat east have to have been at level whereby he could at least compete with him. Otherwise, what's the the point?

Under normal circumstances yes. However, at that point in time, Gohan didn't even appear too ecstatic about taking home the championship. I've always perceived it as him just entering the tournament for fun, rather than being driven by the obsessive drive of desperately trying to be crowned the world champion. Had he been that serious about claiming the title, he likely would have found other more intense means to train than simply train Tien style out in the woods. To be fair, he didn't even know Goten could go SSJ initially.

Gohan's training session in the RoSaT with his father was a completely different situation altogether. Because they were training to save the fate of the world, they naturally had to go all out. Additionally, when Gohan first stepped foot inside the RoSaT he was leagues below his father. However, regardless of that, the outcome still entailed both fighters substantially improving. Why? Because Goku brought his kid up to level. Gohan could have easily trained Goten up to a level where it would make sense to keep him as a sparring partner. We're also talking about Gohan here.. the guy had a hard time going full force against a villain who was about to trash all of his friends and family. He's not exactly the type of character to flex his muscles and boastfully power up to full strength just for the sake of sparring with his younger brother, who he probably presumed wasn't even that strong at that point.

I've always taken the fight between 18 and Mighty Mask somewhat with a grain of salt. The fight was within restricted parameters of a stadium, and 18's surprise over his moves could be attributed towards her simply being amazed by how a normal human fighter could execute such movements and attacks.

At the end of the day, it would appear that no one has a clear answer on where the kids stand in power. There are good points backing each speculation, but there are also things that contradict some of these points.

New Battle:
Grade 2 SSJ Vegeta vs Aka

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Under normal circumstances yes. However, at that point in time, Gohan didn't even appear too ecstatic about taking home the championship. I've always perceived it as him just entering the tournament for fun, rather than being driven by the obsessive drive of desperately trying to be crowned the world champion.

Spoiler:

[supercat]

Under normal circumstances yes. However, at that point in time, Gohan didn't even appear too ecstatic about taking home the championship. I've always perceived it as him just entering the tournament for fun, rather than being driven by the obsessive drive of desperately trying to be crowned the world champion.

Spoiler:

Well yes, he's still going to walk into it with some motive to win. It's not like he's going to go through all of the trouble of entering just so he gets taken out in the first few rounds. There's a huge range of how badly someone could desire something. The point I was trying to make was, because he didn't consider the tournament nearly as seriously as saving the world, he likely would not train as he would for such a catastrophic event.

[Chou_Gohan]

Super Boo (50%) vs. SSjin 3 Goku

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Super Boo (50%) vs. SSjin 3 Goku

Considering it's flat-out stated SS3 Goku could one-shot even full power Super Buu... yeah... Goku stomps even worse..

[Doctor.]

Super Boo (50%) vs. SSjin 3 Goku

Considering it's flat-out stated SS3 Goku could one-shot even full power Super Buu... yeah... Goku stomps even worse..

Hum... what?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Super Boo (50%) vs. SSjin 3 Goku

Considering it's flat-out stated SS3 Goku could one-shot even full power Super Buu... yeah... Goku stomps even worse..

Hum... what?

Uhhh... did you not read the manga?

Spoiler:

[Lord Beerus]

Aka vs Semi-perfect Cell

Aka one shots Cell.