a) Super Vegetto is directly stated. Not Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto.SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:...yeah I can... Super Vegetto being in SS4 Goku's league is a possibility, not a fact.
I'd do something more like this:Spoiler:
The sentence talking about Super Vegetto is not the comparison, it's only saying what he did in Z. The sentence with the comparison does not mention a form.h0kuten wrote:a) Super Vegetto is directly stated. Not Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto.
Nothing says he is in Goku's league.t0sh wrote:b) It's not about Vegetto being in Goku's league. He is in Goku's league. Whether he's stronger or not is the possibility.
It's not my bias. I can just see the obvious intent of the statements in the show. Power scaling further supports my view.t0sh wrote:Stop twisting statements to suit your bias.
'The two become Super Vegetto'SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:The sentence talking about Super Vegetto is not the comparison, it's only saying what he did in Z. The sentence with the comparison does not mention a form.h0kuten wrote:a) Super Vegetto is directly stated. Not Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto.Nothing says he is in Goku's league.t0sh wrote:b) It's not about Vegetto being in Goku's league. He is in Goku's league. Whether he's stronger or not is the possibility.It's not my bias. I can just see the obvious intent of the statements in the show. Power scaling further supports my view.t0sh wrote:Stop twisting statements to suit your bias.
The comparison suggests after they fuse they are perhaps stronger than SSJ4 though. That would suggest Base Vegetto. It pretty much says "After they fuse they become the greatest master in the universe, perhaps stronger than SSJ4." no transformations are implied. I honestly can't believe that their base is that strong but the statement in no way intends to mention a form that Vegetto has never obtained.SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:The sentence talking about Super Vegetto is not the comparison, it's only saying what he did in Z. The sentence with the comparison does not mention a form.
Whichever form is intended, it doesn't really matter, since they say perhaps, meaning it's a possibility and not definitive. Although I agree Base Vegetto being that strong is ridiculous. There'd be no reason for him to use SS against Gohan-Buu if he was that strong.Hitiro wrote:The comparison suggests after they fuse they are perhaps stronger than SSJ4 though. That would suggest Base Vegetto. It pretty much says "After they fuse they become the greatest master in the universe, perhaps stronger than SSJ4." no transformations are implied. I honestly can't believe that their base is that strong but the statement in no way intends to mention a form that Vegetto has never obtained.
Even if it says perhaps it wouldn't say that unless both Vegetto and SSJ4 were very close in power. I mean look at Majin Vegeta, he was compared to SSJ2 Gohan from the Cell Games.SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Whichever form is intended, it doesn't really matter, since they say perhaps, meaning it's a possibility and not definitive. Although I agree Base Vegetto being that strong is ridiculous. There'd be no reason for him to use SS against Gohan-Buu if he was that strong.Hitiro wrote:The comparison suggests after they fuse they are perhaps stronger than SSJ4 though. That would suggest Base Vegetto. It pretty much says "After they fuse they become the greatest master in the universe, perhaps stronger than SSJ4." no transformations are implied. I honestly can't believe that their base is that strong but the statement in no way intends to mention a form that Vegetto has never obtained.
Strength Checker wrote:Chapter: 465 (DBZ 271), P2.3
Context: as Vegeta fights Boo
Piccolo: “He’s already surpassed Super Saiyan as well…This is tremendous power…Perhaps even greater than Gohan’s when he fought Cell…”
Says who? You?Hitiro wrote:Even if it says perhaps it wouldn't say that unless both Vegetto and SSJ4 were very close in power.
We have confirmation Goku and Vegeta are stronger:Hitiro wrote:I mean look at Majin Vegeta, he was compared to SSJ2 Gohan from the Cell Games.Strength Checker wrote:Chapter: 465 (DBZ 271), P2.3
Context: as Vegeta fights Boo
Piccolo: “He’s already surpassed Super Saiyan as well…This is tremendous power…Perhaps even greater than Gohan’s when he fought Cell…”
I know what perhaps means. It is used in the manga when the strength between two characters is not so substantial that it's easy to call. Majin Vegeta was clearly more powerful than SSJ2 Gohan from the Cell Games yet Piccolo still said perhaps so there wasn't much in it. Perhaps wouldn't be used if the strength between two characters is clearly noticeable. If Vegetto was 50x weaker than SSJ4 then there would not be any need to say perhaps. It would be clear. But if their strength is fairly close then there would be a reason to use perhaps. If their powers are too close to call then it would be ideal to use the word perhaps.SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Says who? You?Hitiro wrote:Even if it says perhaps it wouldn't say that unless both Vegetto and SSJ4 were very close in power.
Do you not know what perhaps means?
per·haps
pərˈ(h)aps/Submit
adverb
used to express uncertainty or possibility.
It's a possibility.
Piccolo saying Vegeta is perhaps greater than Gohan could be because Piccolo can't initially tell if Vegeta is stronger or not. Their powers can just be so close Piccolo can't really tell if there is a difference or not.Hitiro wrote:I know what perhaps means. It is used in the manga when the strength between two characters is not so substantial that it's easy to call. Majin Vegeta was clearly more powerful than SSJ2 Gohan from the Cell Games yet Piccolo still said perhaps. Perhaps would be used if the strength between two characters is clearly noticeable. If Vegetto was 50x weaker than SSJ4 then there would not be any need to say perhaps. It would be clear. But if their strength is fairly close then there would be a reason to use perhaps.
Which is why he would say perhaps. But there would be no reason for the guide to use perhaps if SSJ4 Goku was clearly above Vegetto. No matter what form it is suggesting.SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Piccolo saying Vegeta is perhaps greater than Gohan could be because Piccolo can't initially tell if Vegeta is or not. Their power can just be so close Piccolo can't really tell if there is a difference.Hitiro wrote:I know what perhaps means. It is used in the manga when the strength between two characters is not so substantial that it's easy to call. Majin Vegeta was clearly more powerful than SSJ2 Gohan from the Cell Games yet Piccolo still said perhaps. Perhaps would be used if the strength between two characters is clearly noticeable. If Vegetto was 50x weaker than SSJ4 then there would not be any need to say perhaps. It would be clear. But if their strength is fairly close then there would be a reason to use perhaps.
I'm not really making up definitions. I am just not being unreasonable with what the dialogue is suggesting. Saying that it must be talking about SSJ3 Vegetto is reaching incredibly. I don't really feel the need to say Super Vegetto is in SSJ4 Goku's league. I understand SSJ4 Goku could be above Super Vegetto. That's why I more or less put them at equal pegging. Because perhaps, like in the manga, points to the difference between them being not much. Even if SSJ4 Goku is above him. I mean you gave the definition of perhaps, yourself. To express uncertainty. If there is uncertainty then they can't be far off from each other. Piccolo had uncertainty between Majin Vegeta and SSJ2 CG Gohan. That uncertainty is there because they are fairly close in power. You have to ask why is it uncertain between Vegetto and SSJ4 Goku? What reason would you say it would be uncertain other than they have fairly close power levels?SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:I know you feel the need to say Super Vegetto being in SS4 Goku's league is fact and anyone who says other wise is a "biased GT fanboy", but making up definitions doesn't help your argument. The word used shows that Vegetto being that strong is an uncertainty or possibility.
SSJ3 Vegetto would not be one of these interpretations though. And the difference between them would have to be fairly close otherwise there would be no reason to say perhaps. Just like if Majin Vegeta was that much more powerful than SSJ2 Gohan from the Cell Games there would be no reason to say perhaps there either. I'm not ruling out Super Vegetto is below SSJ4 Goku. But it wouldn't be to a significant degree. I would honestly never say that Base Vegetto was at that level, it would be ridiculous.SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Thus, is is not definitive, and can be interpreted in other ways.
It's a fact Super Vegetto has to be close enough in power to Goku Ssj4 that it's difficult to tell whose stronger.SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:I'll go with the actual definition of 'perhaps' (something is an uncertainty or possibility) instead of your made up one that means two people must be close in power.
Why? Because you say so?But there would be no reason for the guide to use perhaps if SSJ4 Goku was clearly above Vegetto. No matter what form it is suggesting.
Yes you are. The definition for perhaps is:I'm not really making up definitions. I am just not being unreasonable with what the dialogue is suggesting. Saying that it must be talking about SSJ3 Vegetto is reaching incredibly. I don't really feel the need to say Super Vegetto is in SSJ4 Goku's league. I understand SSJ4 Goku could be above Super Vegetto. That's why I more or less put them at equal pegging. Because perhaps, like in the manga, points to the difference between them being not much. Even if SSJ4 Goku is above him.
Why wouldn't it be? Because you say so?SSJ3 Vegetto would not be one of these interpretations though.
We have confirmation that Vegeta and Goku were actually stronger that Gohan. So despite Piccolo saying "perhaps", we know Goku and Vegeta actually are stronger, just not by a lot.And the difference between them would have to be fairly close otherwise there would be no reason to say perhaps. Just like if Majin Vegeta was that much more powerful than SSJ2 Gohan from the Cell Games there would be no reason to say perhaps there either. I'm not ruling out Super Vegetto is below SSJ4 Goku. But it wouldn't be to a significant degree.
Okay.It's my opinion Super Vegetto has to be close enough in power to Goku Ssj4 that it's difficult to tell whose stronger.
Tell my why this would be uncertain? What reason can you come up for this? The only reason this could be uncertain is if they have fairly close battle powers like Majin Vegeta ans SSJ2 CG Gohan. Unless you have another reason for why this would uncertain?SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Why? They can just be saying Vegetto being that strong is a possibility, not a fact. It's clearly not based on any evidence from the show, it could just be speculation.Which is why he would say perhaps. But there would be no reason for the guide to use perhaps if SSJ4 Goku was clearly above Vegetto. No matter what form it is suggesting.Yes you are. The definition for perhaps is:I'm not really making up definitions. I am just not being unreasonable with what the dialogue is suggesting. Saying that it must be talking about SSJ3 Vegetto is reaching incredibly. I don't really feel the need to say Super Vegetto is in SSJ4 Goku's league. I understand SSJ4 Goku could be above Super Vegetto. That's why I more or less put them at equal pegging. Because perhaps, like in the manga, points to the difference between them being not much. Even if SSJ4 Goku is above him.
used to express uncertainty or possibility.
Your definition is:
two people are very close in power, anyone who says otherwise is a biased GT fanboyWhy wouldn't it be? Because you say so?SSJ3 Vegetto would not be one of these interpretations though.We have confirmation that Vegeta and Goku were actually stronger that Gohan. So despite Piccolo saying "perhaps", we know Goku and Vegeta actually are stronger, just not by a lot.And the difference between them would have to be fairly close otherwise there would be no reason to say perhaps. Just like if Majin Vegeta was that much more powerful than SSJ2 Gohan from the Cell Games there would be no reason to say perhaps there either. I'm not ruling out Super Vegetto is below SSJ4 Goku. But it wouldn't be to a significant degree.
We don't have any confirmation saying Vegetto is actually that strong. Only saying it's a possibility or uncertainty.
I am not sure why I have to repeatedly tell you what perhaps means.Okay.It's my opinion Super Vegetto has to be close enough in power to Goku Ssj4 that it's difficult to tell whose stronger.
Why what would be uncertain? Super Vegetto being in SS4 Goku's league?Hitiro wrote:Tell my why this would be uncertain? What reason can you come up for this?
We get direct confirmation without the word "perhaps" showing Goku and Vegeta are stronger / in that league. There is no direct confirmation for Vegetto/Goku.Hitiro wrote:The only reason this could be uncertain is if they have fairly close battle powers like Majin Vegeta ans SSJ2 CG Gohan. Unless you have another reason for why this would uncertain?
There would be no need to make the comparison in the first place if the two were not close in power, I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this.SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:I'll go with the actual definition of 'perhaps' (something is an uncertainty or possibility) instead of your made up one that means two people must be close in power.
As I said, it could be speculation. There's nothing in the actual show indicating that and a lot indicating the opposite.Doctor. wrote:There would be no need to make the comparison in the first place if the two were not close in power, I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this.
It'd be nonsensical to say "perhaps even greater than SS4" if Vegetto was much weaker, the comparison would be unnecessary, ridiculous and would just be there to purposefully try to fool fans. It's obvious that's not the case. You may go by your official definitions, but context is what's important here.
Speculation holds no place in a guidebook, all information has a purpose. Using the word perhaps just indicates their powers are so similar it's hard to tell them apart. Like I said, the comparison would be unnecessary if they didn't want to put Vegetto at SS4's level.SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:As I said, it could be speculation. There's nothing in the actual show indicating that and a lot indicating the opposite.Doctor. wrote:There would be no need to make the comparison in the first place if the two were not close in power, I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this.
It'd be nonsensical to say "perhaps even greater than SS4" if Vegetto was much weaker, the comparison would be unnecessary, ridiculous and would just be there to purposefully try to fool fans. It's obvious that's not the case. You may go by your official definitions, but context is what's important here.
There would be no need to use the word "perhaps" if it was definitive. They would just say "even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!"
The fact that they go through the effort of saying it is a possibility must mean that they think they are fairly close. If Vegetto was much weaker than SSJ4 why even say that it is possibility? At the end of the day their sentiment is based off their perception of the two characters. They are the ones that developed GT, they could just outright state SSJ4 is superior if they want. Because as you said the sentiment is based off nothing. There is no reason for them to assume something based off nothing unless they are trying to say the characters are fairly close. If I were the staff on GT I would just be like "Well, we'll just make SSJ4 massively stronger than SSJ Vegetto. There is no way to compare the two characters anyway."SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Why what would be uncertain? Super Vegetto being in SS4 Goku's league?Hitiro wrote:Tell my why this would be uncertain? What reason can you come up for this?
Because there's no evidence from the actual show indicating that. The sentiment is based off nothing, so them saying Vegetto is in SS4 Goku's league can just be them speculating it's a possibility.
