Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

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Galan007
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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by Galan007 » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:55 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:The Vjump kili measurement was based on the fact that SSJ1 Goku had 3,000 kilis and the Daizenshuu gave him a PL of 150,000,000 on Namek. Accepting that 1 kili = 50,000 PL means that you believe that SSJ1 Goku in the Buu Arc was no stronger than SSJ1 Goku on Namek. Personally I think a kili is a lot more than that.
The 3,000 kili measurement was given immediately after Goku transformed into a SSJ. He hadn't even started powering up at the time.

That said, I don't see a problem with it. /shrug

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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:45 pm

Um, transforming into a SSJ is powering up.
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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by Galan007 » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:36 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Um, transforming into a SSJ is powering up.
Correct. However, he can still power up a lot further after transforming. You need me to provide scans of Saiyans powering up in their SSJ states..? :eh:

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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by godku23 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:16 am

At most I'd put it at around average Ginyu Force. It being the leader and strongest, seemingly by far, of its race could mean it's a mutant. I'd like to think that thats the bare minimum to hang with a completely casual Beerus.
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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by supercat » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:28 pm

I wouldn't deem that desperate struggle for survival as hanging with Beerus, or anything even remotely akin to that concept. Some mysterious alien avoiding the fate of being one-shotted right off the bat probably has a much stronger correlation with the theory that Beerus likes to fluctuate his ki accordingly to toy with his opponent. In my opinion, it makes a lot of sense considering how he seldom has the luxury of participating in a challenging fight.

Casual Beerus could mean a wide range of things. Although the power that he displayed against SSJ3 Goku was likely substantially greater than what he had showcased against that alien, we could still consider it as him being casual or taking it exceptionally easy.

Let's put it this way, unless Beerus lowers his ki to specifically match the Ginyu Force, they wouldn't last a second.

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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by godku23 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:02 pm

It's like when Vegeta had Krillin nearly kill him for a zenkai boost in their fight with Freeza. He said that he had to lower his power to the minimum to let him wound him. I see Beerus lowering it as low as possible would be be Ginyu level. And the bug alien being Ginyu force level fits with I being a mutant. That's just my head canon though.
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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by h0kuten » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:05 pm

Lowing his Chi down to the Ginyu Force level is too much of a stretch.

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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by LightBing » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:36 pm

h0kuten wrote:Lowing his Chi down to the Ginyu Force level is too much of a stretch.
Why? Trunks lowered his to 5 when Freeza returned. When Kuririn fought Punta in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai, he must have lowered it to that realm.

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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by h0kuten » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:39 pm

LightBing wrote:
h0kuten wrote:Lowing his Chi down to the Ginyu Force level is too much of a stretch.
Why? Trunks lowered his to 5 when Freeza returned. When Kuririn fought Punta in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai, he must have lowered it to that realm.
That was in base form.

For Beerus to lower his Chi anywhere from in excess of 1 trillion to the 40,000 (that's bare minimum) would require him to use 0.000004% of his power. To be so accurate with his power level just seems out of the realm of possibility.

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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by godku23 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:49 pm

Why would someone of Beerus' skill level be unable to do it.
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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by LightBing » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:55 pm

h0kuten wrote:
LightBing wrote:
h0kuten wrote:Lowing his Chi down to the Ginyu Force level is too much of a stretch.
Why? Trunks lowered his to 5 when Freeza returned. When Kuririn fought Punta in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai, he must have lowered it to that realm.
That was in base form.

For Beerus to lower his Chi anywhere from in excess of 1 trillion to the 40,000 (that's bare minimum) would require him to use 0.000004% of his power. To be so accurate with his power level just seems out of the realm of possibility.
Doesn't matter whatever possible percentage he had to suppress his power to. I assume the character doesn't think in those terms, neither did Trunks when he reduced his power. They just adapt naturally. 5 is 1,6666666% of 3.000.000 which is the ballpark of his max base power, that's also accurate.

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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by Darkprince410 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:01 pm

h0kuten wrote:
LightBing wrote:
h0kuten wrote:Lowing his Chi down to the Ginyu Force level is too much of a stretch.
Why? Trunks lowered his to 5 when Freeza returned. When Kuririn fought Punta in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai, he must have lowered it to that realm.
That was in base form.

For Beerus to lower his Chi anywhere from in excess of 1 trillion to the 40,000 (that's bare minimum) would require him to use 0.000004% of his power. To be so accurate with his power level just seems out of the realm of possibility.
Given that we see he's able to restrain himself to the point where he can slap Bulma in the face and she not die, then he can certainly restrain himself to the level the alien leader was only in the range of the Ginyu Tokusentai and he (Beerus) still do what he did.

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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by supercat » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:02 pm

godku23 wrote:It's like when Vegeta had Krillin nearly kill him for a zenkai boost in their fight with Freeza. He said that he had to lower his power to the minimum to let him wound him. I see Beerus lowering it as low as possible would be be Ginyu level. And the bug alien being Ginyu force level fits with I being a mutant. That's just my head canon though.
Lowering his ki to mirror his opponent's power is presumably what Beerus does for the sake of entertaining himself. He could probably alter the amount of energy he exerts in the blink of an eye.

Candidly speaking, that alien could be anywhere in terms of power; however, if he sat in the same realm of strength as one of the strongest elite fighting forces in the universe, he likely would have attracted some attention.

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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by Galan007 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:00 pm

Why would we even assume that Beerus lowered his ki at all? :eh:

-The creature initially launched a furious melee. Beerus casually blocked each blow with one finger.
-The creature fires multiple electrical attacks from his horn. Beerus casually dodges every blast.
-The creature uses a fire attack. Beerus allows said attack to strike him, and tanks it completely unscathed.
-The creature attempts another fire attack. Beerus casually blocks/redirects the attack with a gesture.
-The creature is KO'd by his own attack.

That's it.

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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by Pantalones » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:33 pm

Candidly speaking, that alien could be anywhere in terms of power; however, if he sat in the same realm of strength as one of the strongest elite fighting forces in the universe, he likely would have attracted some attention.
It's not like Freeza's empire covered the entire universe or anything -- it certainly didn't by the time Beerus woke up, anyway, considering that without Freeza himself to lead it his army hadn't been doing so well. Heck, we already saw one example of a planet Freeza hadn't already conquered which was home to a Ginyu Force level fighter -- Namek, with Nail being on or above the level of Recoome and company. So it's entirely possible that some random alien on a middle-of-nowhere world that nobody even bothered to investigate could be on par with the Ginyu Force and nobody would ever know -- being Super Saiyan level is another matter of course, and he's certainly not SSj3 level or random people in the afterlife would be sensing him, but I don't see anything wrong with some of the strongest random alien fighters being as strong as or stronger than the Ginyu Force. I mean, that's literally the exact backstory of each Ginyu Force member -- they're super-strong mutants compared to the rest of their kind.

Heck, it's entirely possible that there's random aliens out there who are starting to approach the 1,000,000 mark, or at least surpass the 530,000 level that first-form Freeza had. Doesn't Freeza describe his third form as the one that nobody's ever seen before -- which would mean that someone he fought previously was strong enough to make him use his second form?

But yeah -- the alien Beerus fought could be pretty much anywhere in the pre-Super Saiyan levels of power, from Raditz-ish all the way up to the low single-digit millions, without contradicting anything or causing problems with other statements. It's pretty much impossible to even guess an exact power level, or even a range that isn't super broad, with any accuracy. Relying on stuff like fire and electricity kind of makes me think he's probably not all that strong, though -- like maybe somewhere in the lower Saiyan Saga range at best. I don't think attacks like that would be all that effective compared to regular ki blasts beyond that point, unless they're magic-based (not just "normal" fire) like Dabura's fireballs.

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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by supercat » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:26 pm

Galan007 wrote:Why would we even assume that Beerus lowered his ki at all? :eh:

-The creature initially launched a furious melee. Beerus casually blocked each blow with one finger.
-The creature fires multiple electrical attacks from his horn. Beerus casually dodges every blast.
-The creature uses a fire attack. Beerus allows said attack to strike him, and tanks it completely unscathed.
-The creature attempts another fire attack. Beerus casually blocks/redirects the attack with a gesture.
-The creature is KO'd by his own attack.

That's it.
The assumption that Beerus was suppressed stems from the fact that he even bothered blocking in the first place. I think a higher usage of ki would have yielded a battle quite akin to Nail vs First Form Frieza, where the former was practically hitting an indestructible wall.

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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by Galan007 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:32 pm

supercat wrote:The assumption that Beerus was suppressed stems from the fact that he even bothered blocking in the first place. I think a higher usage of ki would have yielded a battle quite akin to Nail vs First Form Freeza, where the former was practically hitting an indestructible wall.
Same reason he bothered to block SSJ3 Goku's attacks, imo: he was testing(or playing with) his opposition.

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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:58 pm

Galan007 wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:Um, transforming into a SSJ is powering up.
Correct. However, he can still power up a lot further after transforming. You need me to provide scans of Saiyans powering up in their SSJ states..? :eh:
SSJ2 = twice SSJ1. So the difference can't be that much.
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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by Galan007 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:36 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:SSJ2 = twice SSJ1. So the difference can't be that much.
I guess I don't understand what you're getting at, here..? When a Saiyan transforms into a given level of Super Saiyan, they aren't automatically using their full power--they can still substantially increase their power within that level. ie. my point is that when Goku initially went SSJ against Yakon, he could have still powered up massively in that form.

Example:
There are several other examples, of course, but I'm sure you see what I'm saying..? That's why I don't have a problem with his SSJ power registering at 3,000 kili(or 150m) initially--he hadn't even started powering up within that form. /shrug

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Re: Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

Post by MasterVampire » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:45 pm

Why the hell are you guys ranking this alien so high in power?

I reckon he is more like the Ginyu Force level.

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