So are we biased?

[SSJ Human]

Probably with better clothing and shit. But here's what an actor who's black , African , or of a darker shade would look.
http://thedaoofdragonball.com/blog/fans ... er-jahlon/

Spoiler:

I don't see anything wrong with that. It just proves my point that it could not only be done, but definitely look better if given some more work. I would argue that you couldn't outright do Goku's hair in live action and make it look realistic but I don't think you can have much realism in a film where people can shoot beams out of their hands and capsules contain houses.

[DoomieDoomie911]

The same argument applies to changing him into a woman. Goku is male. There are plenty of male actors out there and changing his gender would tamper with the story because he is male. Making him black won't do anything but leave you secretly wishing he was another race because of your own prejudice.

Come on... Do you really think that people are prejudice just because they don't want Goku to be portrayed as black? They don't want it because Goku is not black in the series! It has absolutely nothing to do with being prejudice. You're really misunderstanding people...

[ShadowBardock89]

All this argument and I think we are overlooking something: Do Saiyans even have the same races as humans? For all we know, they don't! "Of course Goku looks Asian" comments always felt off to me. I've always felt Goku looked like a Saiyan. Besides the Dragon Ball World map clearly does not have the same continents as our Earth does, so to pinpoint Goku (or any of the characters for that matter) of being from a region from our Earth is absurd.

[Attitudefan]

Probably with better clothing and shit. But here's what an actor who's black , African , or of a darker shade would look.
http://thedaoofdragonball.com/blog/fans ... er-jahlon/

Spoiler:

Some of those cosplays look sweet! I wouldn't mind that at all!

[SSJ Human]

The same argument applies to changing him into a woman. Goku is male. There are plenty of male actors out there and changing his gender would tamper with the story because he is male. Making him black won't do anything but leave you secretly wishing he was another race because of your own prejudice.

Come on... Do you really think that people are prejudice just because they don't want Goku to be portrayed as black? They don't want it because Goku is not black in the series! It has absolutely nothing to do with being prejudice. You're really misunderstanding people...

What is Goku then? Saiyan! Goku is not any defined ethnicity in the series. So why not give a black person a chance to play the character? Because they are black? It's really not hard to read between the lines then.

If you have a problem with an actor solely because of their race portraying a character that does not have a race which is human, that has been drawn with a darker skin tone in the source material, then yes you are prejudice. There is no way of saying that it's against the source material when the source material has it.

[dae428]

Goku in most of his appearances has had light(ish) skin (actually kind of pinkish), black hair, and black eyes. Wouldn't it make sense for fans to expect the actor playing Goku to physically have these very same features as the Goku they generally know? I think it's rather rude and insulting to just label people racist for saying that they would rather not have a black actor play Goku as accusatory statements like these just ruin the debate and honestly kind of show how close minded you are to the opinions of others. I mean what's the point of having a conversation if you deem anyone who doesn't agree with you some sort of racist who may or may not know any better. Honestly man, try to understand where some people are getting at. If I were to say, "Wouldn't it be great if we had an Asian or white actor play Staff Officer Black?" I guarantee that people would use the very same arguments they've been making at you to me. Heck it would be the same if I said a blonde actor should play Commander Red.

Let's just say that a live action version of Dragon Ball were coming out and they did cast a black actor as Goku and the trailers looked absolutely fantastic and that black actor nailed Goku's character. I guarantee that pretty much everyone here is going to watch that movie regardless of Goku's race. Honestly, Goku's race isn't a big deal to me and I'm sure it isn't to many other people as well. In the end it really is just a little nitpick that I feel you've blown way out of proportion.

[SSJ Human]

Goku in most of his appearances has had light(ish) skin (actually kind of pinkish), black hair, and black eyes. Wouldn't it make sense for fans to expect the actor playing Goku to physically have these very same features as the Goku they generally know? I think it's rather rude and insulting to just label people racist for saying that they would rather not have a black actor play Goku as accusatory statements like these just ruin the debate and honestly kind of show how close minded you are to the opinions of others. I mean what's the point of having a conversation if you deem anyone who doesn't agree with you some sort of racist who may or may not know any better. Honestly man, try to understand where some people are getting at. If I were to say, "Wouldn't it be great if we had an Asian or white actor play Staff Officer Black?" I guarantee that people would use the very same arguments they've been making at you to me. Heck it would be the same if I said a blonde actor should play Commander Red.

Let's just say that a live action version of Dragon Ball were coming out and they did cast a black actor as Goku and the trailers looked absolutely fantastic and that black actor nailed Goku's character. I guarantee that pretty much everyone here is going to watch that movie regardless of Goku's race. Honestly, Goku's race isn't a big deal to me and I'm sure it isn't to many other people as well. In the end it really is just a little nitpick that I feel you've blown way out of proportion.

Not exactly. You're correct on him having light skin in most appearances. I'll give you that, but the examples you make are of characters who are not only human with ethnicities that could be inferred, but also are not like Goku where they have been portrayed with different skin tones. Look if every appearance of Goku had him light, I wouldn't even be arguing this point, but the fact that he's portrayed multiple times in the manga with a darker skin tone, shows that he can be played by a black actor. That's really all I'm getting at. The source material portrayed him with that skin tone. I didn't make those pictures. They existed that way long before this thread came out so why try to make it seem as though I was without a fair point?

People in here have said some of the dumbest things in difference of their opinion.

So here's what makes you racist (not you in particular, but in the thread):
1. You are opposed to a black actor when the role is of a character like Goku who has been drawn with darker skin despite not being black. If this were someone like Superman, you could argue that he's light too but it isn't and the material where Goku's dark still stands true as source material.

2. You compare having dark skin to having some unnatural skin tone or physical change. Somebody said something about having green skin and amputees. That's all irrelevant and doesn't do much to convince anyone.

3. You claim that it's no different from having changes in ethnic group for human characters. They could make a Spider-Man movie with a japanese Peter Parker and I could understand the backlash because that is a white character. Goku doesn't have a race and anybody should be allowed to play them, regardless of their race.

[dae428]

Not exactly. You're correct on him having light skin in most appearances. I'll give you that, but the examples you make are of characters who are not only human with ethnicities that could be inferred, but also are not like Goku where they have been portrayed with different skin tones. Look if every appearance of Goku had him light, I wouldn't even be arguing this point, but the fact that he's portrayed multiple times in the manga with a darker skin tone, shows that he can be played by a black actor. That's really all I'm getting at. The source material portrayed him with that skin tone. I didn't make those pictures. They existed that way long before this thread came out so why try to make it seem as though I was without a fair point?

People in here have said some of the dumbest things in difference of their opinion.

So here's what makes you racist (not you in particular, but in the thread):
1. You are opposed to a black actor when the role is of a character like Goku who has been drawn with darker skin despite not being black. If this were someone like Superman, you could argue that he's light too but it isn't and the material where Goku's dark still stands true as source material.

2. You compare having dark skin to having some unnatural skin tone or physical change. Somebody said something about having green skin and amputees. That's all irrelevant and doesn't do much to convince anyone.

3. You claim that it's no different from having changes in ethnic group for human characters. They could make a Spider-Man movie with a japanese Peter Parker and I could understand the backlash because that is a white character. Goku doesn't have a race and anybody should be allowed to play them, regardless of their race.

1. Read my argument again. Goku is generally shown as having light skin and fan's generally want a generally physically accurate portrayal of Goku. Just because they want a vision of Goku that they've come to consider the norm does not make them racist. This is my main argument.
2. You're missing the point of their arguments. Refer back to 1.
3. Not sure what you mean. Refer back to 1.

My problem lies with the rudeness of your responses to other people and the fact that you just can't accept their opinions and label them as bigots. I wholeheartedly believe a black actor can indeed play Goku. Would a black actor playing Goku be my first choice? No. But I'd have no problems with it as long as he were portraying Goku properly.

Also Goku's colored portrayals in the manga are a bit pointless anyways as Toriyama generally just chooses whatever colors he feels like going with. If I'm not mistaken Toriyama once even drew #18's hair purple during his time working on Battle of Gods. Regardless, as long as race doesn't play a factor in the character then I'm perfectly fine with changing race in a live action movie. If Goku or Peter Parker were black then go for it I guess. If I don't like the look then it's just a minor nitpick.

[Sora Saiyan]

Goku did not look black in GT, he looked no more tanned than somebody who's Spanish, Greek or Italian. Not just that, but the art Toriyama provided for GT has Trunks and Goku with pretty much the exact same skin tone. Oh, and I'll agree Goku looks very dark in the first picture you posted OP (It appears heavily saturated as Chi-Chi is not that pink.), but on the second he looks no darker than a tanned white guy. Just following Toriyamas art would show you that Goku just looks a little tanned usually. And like GmGoken said, wasn't there a guide that said Goku has yellow skin?

[TheGmGoken]

And like GmGoken said, wasn't there a guide that said Goku has yellow skin?

I found it. Daizenshuu 7's race guide depicts Saiyans with yellow skin color(while earthlings are listed as being yellow, brown, white, etc).

[rereboy]

All this argument and I think we are overlooking something: Do Saiyans even have the same races as humans? For all we know, they don't! "Of course Goku looks Asian" comments always felt off to me. I've always felt Goku looked like a Saiyan. Besides the Dragon Ball World map clearly does not have the same continents as our Earth does, so to pinpoint Goku (or any of the characters for that matter) of being from a region from our Earth is absurd.

It doesn't matter if Saiyans have races or not. In the series, Goku's skin color and features are basically the same as the humans who are either white or asian, meaning that his skin tone is either white or yellow. We have black characters in the series, and Goku's skin tone is much lighter than theirs. Being an alien doesn't change that.

I'm not reaching for anything. It just doesn't make sense to me when the source material that you all love so much has him with darker skin. The anime can have whatever it want. The manga is still the source material and I wouldn't have provided those images were they not to prove my point that it would still be accurate for the character to have darker skin. That's just the way it is. Don't blame me, blame the guy that colored him dark in those pictures. Because if he had never done that, I wouldn't have suggested it.

This is not dark skin:





Uub is not even african, he seems to be more indian or malaysian looking or something similar, and look how much more darker his skin tone is compared to Goku.

Here's Goku compared to Nam (indian looking), the announcer (who has blond hair apparently), the people in Nam's village, and a black guy in the audience:



Goku's skin tone is clearly lighter.

Here's Goku compared to an native american looking kid:



Once again, Goku has lighter skin, even compared to an native american. And here's how Commander Black looked in Dragon Ball:



The difference in skin tone is clear.

These are all from the manga, btw, and are from early Dragon Ball and late Dragon Ball and most of them are full color pages. At most, Goku's skin tone is just slightly "darker" than people like Krillin, which is consistent with what Daizenshuu tells us about saiyans having yellow skin tone, while humans range from white to black. Your claims that Goku has "dark" skin are just reaching.

[UpFromTheSkies]

It doesn't surprise me that you used an image of Super Saiyan 4 Goku as opposed to his base form, where his skin was darker. But see that's how ridiculous you want to be. What was the point of even linking that picture when both you and I saw GT? Do you remember Goku only being Super Saiyan 4 the entire way through, never reverting to his base form that looked black?

You think his base form looked black?

You think this...



...looks like this?

I'm talking about ethnicity and also the fact that being black is normal, just as it is to be any other race.

That is true, there is nothing wrong with being black.

Having green skin is strange. I don't know any human that does so you're really making an invalid point in trying to say that I've said skin color doesn't matter when I was speaking strictly on how an actor would be discriminated against for their race.

Either skin color matters or it doesn't, and if you think it doesn't, then you should be perfectly fine with a directors decision to change Goku's skin color to whatever he or she wants it to be, or to cast someone completely covered in tattoos or birth marks. You should also be okay with Hollywood remaking the Ray Charles and James Brown bio pics with white actors, because race and skin color doesn't matter when portraying someone in a movie. Hell, why not make Martin Luther King Jr and Malcom X bio films with white actors, no one would care, right? I'm sure those movies would do really well at the box office.

The same argument applies to changing him into a woman. Goku is male.

He's also not black. Toriyama imagined him as a young Jackie Chan.

There are plenty of male actors out there and changing his gender would tamper with the story because he is male.

How would it tamper with the story? I see no reason a female couldn't do everything Goku did.

[saunasolmu]

It wouldn't be a very important aspect for me, but I'd obviously prefer Goku having the same skin colour he has in the source material. That doesn't even remotely make me a racist.

What if SSJ hair was brown instead of blonde? Would you be like, it's just a colour, it doesn't matter? Or how about if Goku's regular hair was blonde instead of black? Or beyond colours, how intolerant would it be if you didn't like that live action Goku actually hated training above all, contrary to what he's like in the manga? Wouldn't you be very intolerant to people who don't like training if you didn't like that?

[SSJ Human]

It's quite interesting, these arguments. I have never said that portraying him as any other race would be problematic. All I'm saying is that for people who love to say stick with the source material, you're trying to discredit the fact that he was drawn with darker skin in those manga images, the source material. I didn't edit or change those, where he has darker skin, so why couldn't my interpretation be that he could be played by a black actor? I don't understand what the problem is and mine's with what most said here was just ruling out somebody because they are black. Saiyans in the show didn't even all have the same skin tone so why would be a stretch to say that they could be played by more than one race?

I wouldn't even be in opposition to half those choices if you weren't that way about mine. Never throughout this whole debacle did I try to say anybody's else's serious suggestion was incredulous. But that green skin, amputee and female thing was just meant to troll. The first isn't even human, the second has nothing to do with skin color and the third just doesn't even make sense.

It wouldn't be a very important aspect for me, but I'd obviously prefer Goku having the same skin colour he has in the source material. That doesn't even remotely make me a racist.

What if SSJ hair was brown instead of blonde? Would you be like, it's just a colour, it doesn't matter? Or how about if Goku's regular hair was blonde instead of black? Or beyond colours, how intolerant would it be if you didn't like that live action Goku actually hated training above all, contrary to what he's like in the manga? Wouldn't you be very intolerant to people who don't like training if you didn't like that?

What does hair color have to do with anything? Why would him neglecting his training not bother me? That's an integral part of his character. If those people we're named Goku and from a manga called Dragon Ball, then I would, but it's a fictional character that can be changed at any point. There it is.

It doesn't surprise me that you used an image of Super Saiyan 4 Goku as opposed to his base form, where his skin was darker. But see that's how ridiculous you want to be. What was the point of even linking that picture when both you and I saw GT? Do you remember Goku only being Super Saiyan 4 the entire way through, never reverting to his base form that looked black?

You think his base form looked black?

You think this...



...looks like this?

I'm talking about ethnicity and also the fact that being black is normal, just as it is to be any other race.

That is true, there is nothing wrong with being black.

Having green skin is strange. I don't know any human that does so you're really making an invalid point in trying to say that I've said skin color doesn't matter when I was speaking strictly on how an actor would be discriminated against for their race.

Either skin color matters or it doesn't, and if you think it doesn't, then you should be perfectly fine with a directors decision to change Goku's skin color to whatever he or she wants it to be, or to cast someone completely covered in tattoos or birth marks. You should also be okay with Hollywood remaking the Ray Charles and James Brown bio pics with white actors, because race and skin color doesn't matter when portraying someone in a movie. Hell, why not make Martin Luther King Jr and Malcom X bio films with white actors, no one would care, right? I'm sure those movies would do really well at the box office.

The same argument applies to changing him into a woman. Goku is male.

He's also not black. Toriyama imagined him as a young Jackie Chan.

There are plenty of male actors out there and changing his gender would tamper with the story because he is male.

How would it tamper with the story? I see no reason a female couldn't do everything Goku did.

Wow. I didn't know every black person had the same skin tone. You just taught me something. So yeah, you're a racist. It's as simple as that.

Green skin is an unnatural skin color. So you just compared what is natural, having black skin, to what is not, having green skin, thereby comparing being black to being an alien. Way to go.

Also if you could get it through your head that the argument I'm making is that Goku is not human and has been portrayed with different skin tones in various media, then you would understand why it is different from Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. What do they have to do with any of this? They had one consistent race throughout every single picture they are in. What they looked like didn't have to do with what paint they were using weak so why even make the comparison.

[Draconic]

What I am about to say might sound very very racist, but black people have different features from the other races, other than skin tone. You could look at a light skinned black person and you would never confuse him with a dark skinned asian.

[SSJ Human]

What I am about to say might sound very very racist, but black people have different features from the other races, other than skin tone. You could look at a light skinned black person and you would never confuse him with a dark skinned asian.

I wouldn't say that in particular is, but a black person shouldn't be barred from trying out for Goku if they can pull off the character. We haven't had anybody come forward. This is all hypothetical and they're trying to shoot down my argument like I'm the casting director asking for some opinions before setting out to find somebody. It's ridiculous.

Goku did not look black in GT, he looked no more tanned than somebody who's Spanish, Greek or Italian. Not just that, but the art Toriyama provided for GT has Trunks and Goku with pretty much the exact same skin tone. Oh, and I'll agree Goku looks very dark in the first picture you posted OP (It appears heavily saturated as Chi-Chi is not that pink.), but on the second he looks no darker than a tanned white guy. Just following Toriyamas art would show you that Goku just looks a little tanned usually. And like GmGoken said, wasn't there a guide that said Goku has yellow skin?

It doesn't really matter to me if you saw him as being those races, but why would that invalidate my interpretation? Are you saying that what you see is superior to what I see? Am I not allowed to have the right to interpret something different from you?

Why would one guide where it says he has yellow skin even matter to any degree whatsoever? It doesn't because he's been depicted with different skin tones, so I highly doubt anyone besides you and the other person is referring to that, which is why it is irrelevant, because every anime adaptation either has him light like DB and DBZ or dark like Path to Power and GT.

[rereboy]

It doesn't really matter to me if you saw him as being those races, but why would that invalidate my interpretation? Are you saying that what you see is superior to what I see? Am I not allowed to have the right to interpret something different from you?

You can interpret whatever you like, no matter how ridiculous and illogical it is, there's nothing stopping you. However, there's also nothing stopping people from giving their opinion on what you interpreted.

[SSJ Human]

It doesn't really matter to me if you saw him as being those races, but why would that invalidate my interpretation? Are you saying that what you see is superior to what I see? Am I not allowed to have the right to interpret something different from you?

You can interpret whatever you like, no matter how ridiculous and illogical it is, there's is nothing stopping you. However, there's also nothing stopping people from giving their opinion on what you interpreted.

I see that you were trying to imply that what I thought was ridiculous and illogical. Well then tell me how the source material's own colored images do not add to my belief? You realize that if those pictures didn't exist along with many others, I never would have made this thread? Do you realize that if it were the responses of some of the users in the initial thread where I just asked, I never would have made this thread?

If those pictures didn't exist, I wouldn't have had anything to go by and I never would have said he could be played by someone black. But thanks to that same source material that you guys love so much that I do as well, I'm definitely in the camp of Black Goku.

You insult my interpretation but don't even do a good job of disproving it. What does that say about you?

[rereboy]

I see that you were trying to imply that what I thought was ridiculous and illogical. Well then tell me how the source material's own colored images do not add to my belief?

You just have to read my previous post to understand that:

This is not dark skin:





Uub is not even african, he seems to be more indian or malaysian looking or something similar, and look how much more darker his skin tone is compared to Goku.

Here's Goku compared to Nam (indian looking), the announcer (who has blond hair apparently), the people in Nam's village, and a black guy in the audience:



Goku's skin tone is clearly lighter.

Here's Goku compared to an native american looking kid:



Once again, Goku has lighter skin, even compared to an native american. And here's how Commander Black looked in Dragon Ball:



The difference in skin tone is clear.

These are all from the manga, btw, and are from early Dragon Ball and late Dragon Ball and most of them are full color pages. At most, Goku's skin tone is just slightly "darker" than people like Krillin, which is consistent with what Daizenshuu tells us about saiyans having yellow skin tone, while humans range from white to black. Your claims that Goku has "dark" skin are just reaching.

You insult my interpretation but don't even do a good job of disproving it. What does that say about you?

That I make posts that you don't read?

[VegettoEX]

You insult my interpretation but don't even do a good job of disproving it. What does that say about you?

That you don't read my posts?

Neither of these are appropriate posts and account strikes are being issued.

If you are not willing to take the conversation seriously and do so politely with your fellow fans, we do not want your contributions at all.