Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
SSJ Human wrote:I don't know if you remember this but the manga's in black and white. Just because somebody's skin looks light in that doesn't mean it is and why even bring it up after I've outright said that he is portrayed light for the majority of his appearances? I strongly disagree with you on GT. I always thought he looked black. I've literally got the same skin tone. But that's what I'm talking about, not all black people look alike and I keep having to explain that, which is why I think you'd be doing a disservice by ruling a person out solely because of their ethnicity.
Yes, the manga is in black and white. If they wanted to portray him as black they would have.
When have I ever said that I would rule someone out because of their race? The only thing that I disagree with you on is you basing your argument for a black Goku on a single image from the manga's run. I agree that a black Goku could work if handled well, but it's false to state that Goku was portrayed as black in the original source materiel, and it's wrong to call people racist when they simply want an accurate (as he is seen in the manga/anime) portrayal of Goku.
Cipher wrote:Dragon Ball is the story of a kind-hearted, excitable child who uses the power of friendship to improve those around him as he grows into a dangerous obsessive who sometimes accidentally saves the world.
SSJ Human wrote:I don't know if you remember this but the manga's in black and white. Just because somebody's skin looks light in that doesn't mean it is and why even bring it up after I've outright said that he is portrayed light for the majority of his appearances? I strongly disagree with you on GT. I always thought he looked black. I've literally got the same skin tone. But that's what I'm talking about, not all black people look alike and I keep having to explain that, which is why I think you'd be doing a disservice by ruling a person out solely because of their ethnicity.
Yes, the manga is in black and white. If they wanted to portray him as black they would have.
When have I ever said that I would rule someone out because of their race? The only thing that I disagree with you on is you basing your argument for a black Goku on a single image from the manga's run. I agree that a black Goku could work if handled well.
I'm not basing it on a single image. There are plenty of him with darker skin just as there are thousands where is light.
The sad part about all of this is that if half the people in here came and said, "I'd rather not have a black Goku, but if you do this I would consider it" which is what Sora Saiyan did, then this whole thing wouldn't have extended as much as it did. But the fact that they tried comparing being black to being an alien and an amputee, really is disturbing. The things that people in here have brought up for their prejudice is not a good show on the community and it goes well beyond just having an opinion. The only comparison that was worth anything was linking African-Americans to women, which was done when the one person recommended Goku being played by one, because they have had rough too. But it would still impact the story if that was done.
SSJ Human wrote:Wow. I didn't know every black person had the same skin tone. You just taught me something. So yeah, you're a racist. It's as simple as that.
Green skin is an unnatural skin color. So you just compared what is natural, having black skin, to what is not, having green skin, thereby comparing being black to being an alien. Way to go.
Also if you could get it through your head that the argument I'm making is that Goku is not human and has been portrayed with different skin tones in various media, then you would understand why it is different from Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. What do they have to do with any of this? They had one consistent race throughout every single picture they are in. What they looked like didn't have to do with what paint they were using weak so why even make the comparison.
You are being absolutely ridiculous right now. My comments aren't racist, if they were I would have been banned from this forum. It's not racist to want an actor to look like the person or character they're portraying. I'm a huge Jimi Hendrix fan ("Up From The Skies" is a Hendrix song), and if they made a bio movie of Hendrix and cast a white guy to play him I would flip shit. I'm also a fan of Black Panther from Marvel Comics and wouldn't want a white guy playing T'Challa. Does that make me racist against white people too?
Also, you didn't address the gender reversal. How would Goku being played by a female change the story? A woman could certainly do everything Goku did.
SSJ Human wrote:Wow. I didn't know every black person had the same skin tone. You just taught me something. So yeah, you're a racist. It's as simple as that.
Green skin is an unnatural skin color. So you just compared what is natural, having black skin, to what is not, having green skin, thereby comparing being black to being an alien. Way to go.
Also if you could get it through your head that the argument I'm making is that Goku is not human and has been portrayed with different skin tones in various media, then you would understand why it is different from Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. What do they have to do with any of this? They had one consistent race throughout every single picture they are in. What they looked like didn't have to do with what paint they were using weak so why even make the comparison.
You are being absolutely ridiculous right now. My comments aren't racist, if they were I would have been banned from this forum. It's not racist to want an actor to look like the person or character they're portraying. I'm a huge Jimi Hendrix fan ("Up From The Skies" is a Hendrix song), and if they made a bio movie of Hendrix and cast a white guy to play him I would flip shit. I'm also a fan of Black Panther from Marvel Comics and wouldn't want a white guy playing T'Challa. Does that make me racist against white people too?
Also, you didn't address the gender reversal. How would Goku being played by a female change the story? A woman could certainly do everything Goku did.
You're comments are racist because Goku has no race and you excluded an entire ethnic group from being able to play him just because they were black. If you had done what Sora Saiyan did, give the requirements of having light skin, a small nose, average height, etc as your rationale for you wanted rather than just saying they have to be white or asian, then your comments wouldn't be but they are.
I like how you you try to justify it by giving examples of an actual black character turned white but never do you mention the fact that unlike Goku, he is black, a human ethnic group. Same for MLK and Malcolm X. How could you even justify that comparison with a straight face? This has to be a joke or some prank you're playing on me because you know what you said just doesn't add up to how ridiculous you have been this entire time commenting in the thread.
If you really can't figure out how changing a male to female in a story where they get married to a woman and have a biological child, presumably if this is based of DBZ, then I don't need to explain anything to you. It's right there.
SSJ Human wrote:You're comments are racist because Goku has no race and you excluded an entire ethnic group from being able to play him just because they were black. If you had done what Sora Saiyan did, give the requirements of having light skin, a small nose, average height, etc as your rationale for you wanted rather than just saying they have to be white or asian, then your comments wouldn't be but they are.
Toriyama said the only person who could play Goku is a young Jackie Chan, who is clearly Chinese.
I like how you you try to justify it by giving examples of an actual black character turned white but never do you mention the fact that unlike Goku, he is black, a human ethnic group. Same for MLK and Malcolm X. How could you even justify that comparison with a straight face? This has to be a joke or some prank you're playing on me because you know what you said just doesn't add up to how ridiculous you have been this entire time commenting in the thread.
What about Mace Windu, the black Jedi? He's not from Earth and therefore has no Earth ethnic group association, is it ok for a white guy to play him?
If you really can't figure out how changing a male to female in a story where they get married to a woman and have a biological child, presumably if this is based of DBZ, then I don't need to explain anything to you. It's right there.
They could just make Chi Chi male and Gohan would still be Goku's biological son, and the story wouldn't be affected.
SSJ Human wrote:You're comments are racist because Goku has no race and you excluded an entire ethnic group from being able to play him just because they were black. If you had done what Sora Saiyan did, give the requirements of having light skin, a small nose, average height, etc as your rationale for you wanted rather than just saying they have to be white or asian, then your comments wouldn't be but they are.
Toriyama said the only person who could play Goku is a young Jackie Chan, who is clearly Chinese.
I like how you you try to justify it by giving examples of an actual black character turned white but never do you mention the fact that unlike Goku, he is black, a human ethnic group. Same for MLK and Malcolm X. How could you even justify that comparison with a straight face? This has to be a joke or some prank you're playing on me because you know what you said just doesn't add up to how ridiculous you have been this entire time commenting in the thread.
What about Mace Windu, the black Jedi? He's not from Earth and therefore has no Earth ethnic group association, is it ok for a white guy to play him?
If you really can't figure out how changing a male to female in a story where they get married to a woman and have a biological child, presumably if this is based of DBZ, then I don't need to explain anything to you. It's right there.
They could just make Chi Chi male and Gohan would still be Goku's biological son, and the story wouldn't be affected.
That era has passed and the time has come for different actors unless you want to a see a story about an elderly Goku. By all means, go pursue that statement. If Jackie Chan was the only person who was allowed to play the character, then how did Chatwin get the role? Because somebody liked him?
Mace Windu is just like Uub. He is not a central Star Wars character, though unlike Uub his character hasn't been wasted thanks to the comics. That being said, nobody that wasn't a fan would notice or care.
Why would they even bother with reversing the genders? And if they changed the gender of Goku to female and Chi-Chi to male, wouldn't they also change Gohan just cause?
An african-descendant (i.e. "black") actor (actress) portraying Goku? perfectly OK for me... AS LONG as he (she):
a) have a light brown or lighter skin, as the color range all Goku official characterizations.
b) have a similiar bone facial structure as manga's Goku seems to have compared to other characters.
c) have similar face secondary traits, as lips, chin, etc, similiar to the manga portrayal of Goku.
That said, it would be faster to found a talented actor betweeen southern asian or latino gene pools. But, as there are black african ascendant persons with those characteristics, the possibility is there nevertheless; otherwise, I agree it would be racist to segregate.
IF a female actress is to be Goku, she should do it genderbending (portraying him as a male). That isn't as farfetched as it sounds, just think about it.
Last edited by DragonBallLove on Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DragonBallLove wrote:An african-descendant (i.e. "black") actor (actress) portraying Goku? perfectly OK for me... AS LONG as he (she):
a) have a light brown or lighter skin, as the color range all Goku official characterizations.
b) have a similiar bone facial structure as manga's Goku seems to have compared to other characters.
c) have similar face secondary traits, as lips, chin, etc, similiar to the manga portrayal of Goku.
That said, it would be faster to found a talented actor betweeen southern asian or latino gene pools. But, as there are black african ascendant persons with those characteristics, the possibility is there nevertheless; otherwise, I agree it would be racist to segregate.
IF a female actress is to be Goku, she should do it genderbending (portraying him as a male). That isn't as farfetched as it sounds, just think about it.
See, you're another one. Thank you for having a view that isn't racist like the guy above my last comment and actually giving credentials on what you would want that actor to have. I appreciate it.
DragonBallLove wrote:otherwise, I agree it would be racist to segregate.
"racism - the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."
... ok. I guess we're being racist. Apparently.
I tend not to post here anymore because what I say doesn't add to the conversation.
What is racist in many of the nine pages of disccusion here is adjoining (subconsciously) predetermined features to a ethnicity. Human genetics is VERY diverse, and no racial genepool is, as today, abstent of variations. Many people have preconceibed ideas of four big "races", aka black, white, asian and latino. That view is absolutely lacking of reality, as there is not only so many more racial genepools than that, but as well as those seemly well-defined borders betweeen races are not so. As with colors in a palette, racial diversity overlaps the "races" in many more instances than not.
Now, I guess your original question refers to the Hollywood industries, so, mainly to Afro-American people. Being Afro-American is more a racial cultural heritage (ethnicity) than a genetic race proper. There are many different black peoples that where abducted in the colonial times, from very different genetic upbringins. They also had traces of arabic, egyptian and mediterranean genes, from centuries of sporadic intermixings. Added the caucasian and native american intermix during the slavery times, and you have an ethnic group with a very diverse racial genepool.
Then you could get a black person who is tanned? Again, we don't all look alike.
I also like how you said nothing of the first image, which is because we both know that my interpretation is capable of being seen by others
We? I'm black too you know. A tanned black man would be darker than a tanned Goku. I also began talking about the first TWO images. He's Hulk Hogan tanned. Not a Black or stereotypes skin. However he might can pass for South Africa.
DragonBallLove wrote:otherwise, I agree it would be racist to segregate.
"racism - the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."
... ok. I guess we're being racist. Apparently.
Pretty much.
Marco Polo wrote:SSJ Human how do you manage to frequent a forum and community full of racist people?
The community isn't fully of racist people. When did I ever say that? A few of you that commented in here are though.
TheGmGoken wrote:
We? I'm black too you know. A tanned black man would be darker than a tanned Goku. I also began talking about the first TWO images. He's Hulk Hogan tanned. Not a Black or stereotypes skin. However he might can pass for South Africa.
It's a shame that as a black person, you can't see the problems presented by the posts in this thread. How about you go tell them to stop discriminating against your race?
It's a shame that as a black person, you can't see the problems presented by the posts in this thread. How about you go tell them to stop discriminating against your race?
Let's make Obama White in his movie. He's half white after all. As long as he captures Obama sprit and charm. Goku never looked black. Tanned at best. Maybe Light skin South Africa. There's no alternative black universe Goku. Why exactly should he be black? To appeal? To be different? At best he can be a Very very light skin. Thats all.
It's a shame that as a black person, you can't see the problems presented by the posts in this thread. How about you go tell them to stop discriminating against your race?
Let's make Obama White in his movie. He's half white after all. As long as he captures Obama sprit and charm. Goku never looked black. Tanned at best. Maybe Light skin South Africa. There's no alternative black universe Goku. Why exactly should he be black? To appeal? To be different? At best he can be a Very very light skin. Thats all.
Yes thank you for telling the two people who didn't know it already that President Obama was half-white. Good job.
Anyway, you still miss the point of the Superman comparison. He has also been portrayed as having light skin, but not only that, there exists within the DC multiverse versions of his character that are black. Goku does not have that and since those images from the source material also portray as being darker, then yes, I think anybody should have the opportunity to give the role a try.
I'm not saying he should. I'm strictly stating that there is no good reason to try saying that the character cannot be played by a black actor, which is what was said in the first thread. There just isn't. What exactly do you define as looking black? Clearly you and I have two different versions of what we think of as dark skin.
What bothers me the most, since we're arguing about being close-minded, I would say that a number of users in here are either close-minded or racist for what they've said. If I had made this thread with the proclamation that Goku was black and that no other race could play him, which is basically what a chuck of you have said about him being asian, I'd probably get reported and banned for hate speech.
Last edited by SSJ Human on Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TheGmGoken wrote:There's no alternative black universe Goku.
Turles would like a word with you.
Seriously though, not to mini-mod or anything but this thread has really derailed. Why don't get back on track to the main topic instead of labeling people as racist?
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
It's a shame that as a black person, you can't see the problems presented by the posts in this thread. How about you go tell them to stop discriminating against your race?
Let's make Obama White in his movie. He's half white after all. As long as he captures Obama sprit and charm. Goku never looked black. Tanned at best. Maybe Light skin South Africa. There's no alternative black universe Goku. Why exactly should he be black? To appeal? To be different? At best he can be a Very very light skin. Thats all.
Yes thank you for telling the two people who didn't know it already that President Obama was half-white. Good job.
Anyway, you still miss the point of the Superman comparison. He has also been portrayed as having light skin, but not only that, there exists within the DC multiverse versions of his character that are black. Goku does not have that and since those images from the source material also portray as being darker, then yes, I think anybody should have the opportunity to give the role a try.
I'm not saying he should. I'm strictly stating that there is no good reason to try saying that the character cannot be played by a black actor, which is what was said in the first thread. There just isn't. What exactly do you define as looking black? Clearly you and I have two different versions of what we think of as dark skin.
What bothers me the most, since we're arguing about being close-minded, I would say that a number of users in here are either close-minded or racist for what they've said. If I had made this thread with the proclamation that Goku was black and that no other race could play him, which is basically what a chuck of you have said about him being asian, I'd probably get reported and banned for hate speech.
1. Please fix your attitude. Trust me as a former banned member. You'll regret it.
2. The alternative universe Superman... Is NOT KAL-EL or Clark Kent. The black Superman is not a DIFFERENT version of Clark Kent. It's a different Superhero who took the name Superman after Earth 2 Superman died. He has his own name and personality. Compared to Son Goku where's there 1 Son Goku. Big difference pal. Big difference. The darker skin Goku is at BEST a very light skin black or South Africa. Not really close to a black skin color or stereotypical African skin. So I wonder how you got black from a Hulk Hogan tan? Goku never been displayed as having a dark skin color except for MAYBEV certain episodes of GT.
3. Looking black. Black people come in multiple shades but let's simple it down to 3. Dark Skin. Brown Skin. Light Skin. Goku don't look like any of these in any of his tanned appearance. Goku can be played by a black actor. But unless they make him a very very light skin black. It'll be obviously a PR stunt that'll people will hate it. Similar to what Marvel did with Miles.
4. You're using racist wrong once again. Racist is racial superior. Saying Goku can't be black is not racist. While we're at it. USSJ was displayed as red in a certain panel. Should SSJ now be red?
Goku looks more black than he does asian. Goku in no way resembles an asian person. A hispanic person would play him perfectly
Canon is Jaco, Dragon Ball except for EoZ, Dragon Ball Super anime and manga (both are separate canons)
Kai >>> Z
Current Roshi/Kulilin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSJ3 Gotenks
xmysticgohanx wrote:Goku looks more black than he does asian. Goku in no way resembles an asian person. A hispanic person would play him perfectly
Where does he look more like a black man?
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