The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Kamiccolo9]

Time for some more Marvel vs. DB:

Iron Fist vs. Drum
Dr. Doom(not allowed to use magic) vs. SSJ2 Goku
Captain Marvel vs. Kaioshin
Rhino vs. Nam
Colossus vs. Kami

Either way for the first. Iron Fist actually operates on essentially the same ki principle that the DB characters do, and has shown in the past that he can tap into that. However, that's not consistent, and his powerset can be a bit vague, so I'm gonna go 60-40 with the edge going to Drum.

Rhino is much, much stronger, but he's stupid, and Nam can avoid him pretty easily by jumping around. I'm just not sure how Nam can actually hurt him; Rhino's traded blows with the Hulk. So, I say that Nam wears himself out trying to make Rhino blink, and eventually Rhino gets ahold of him.

If Colossus gets a single hit in, he has this. I'm not sure if Kami is capable of actually hurting him, though.


Dunno which Captain Marvel you mean, but Mar-Vell, Genis-Vell, Spectrum, and Carol Danvers can all waste Kaioshin.

Edit-Forgot the other one. Doom teleports Goku into the sun. Even without his magic, Doom is far and away too much for anyone short of Buu-

[Lunatic Fringe]

Time for some more Marvel vs. DB:

Iron Fist vs. Drum
Dr. Doom(not allowed to use magic) vs. SSJ2 Goku
Captain Marvel vs. Kaioshin
Rhino vs. Nam
Colossus vs. Kami

Either way for the first. Iron Fist actually operates on essentially the same ki principle that the DB characters do, and has shown in the past that he can tap into that. However, that's not consistent, and his powerset can be a bit vague, so I'm gonna go 60-40 with the edge going to Drum.

Rhino is much, much stronger, but he's stupid, and Nam can avoid him pretty easily by jumping around. I'm just not sure how Nam can actually hurt him; Rhino's traded blows with the Hulk. So, I say that Nam wears himself out trying to make Rhino blink, and eventually Rhino gets ahold of him.

If Colossus gets a single hit in, he has this. I'm not sure if Kami is capable of actually hurting him, though.


Dunno which Captain Marvel you mean, but Mar-Vell, Genis-Vell, Spectrum, and Carol Danvers can all waste Kaioshin.

Edit-Forgot the other one. Doom teleports Goku into the sun. Even without his magic, Doom is far and away too much for anyone short of Buu-

I was referring to Carol Danvers, actually.

[RandomGuy96]

Second-form Freeza (F) vs Ultimate Gohan
Third-form Freeza (F) vs Super Vegetto

I think 4th form Freeza would still lose to Ultimate Gohan. I don't see any reason to make his lower forms very strong at all. The most we have is Piccolo stating that 1st form Freeza is a lot stronger than SS Gohan and co, and even that's not really supported by his few feats. If Freeza were to bulk-up within his 4th form, he'd defeat Gohan, but would still lose to Gotenks-Buu, to say nothing of Super Vegetto. He'd have to go full Golden to defeat the higher forms of Buu, or any form of Vegetto except his base form.

EDIT: I suppose you could just assume his 1st form in faff maintains the same relative difference to his 4th as it did back on Namek. But even that gives us no real idea of how strong he is, as the power of his 4th form isn't clarified at all beyond being weaker than base Goku. Base Goku in this movie himself isn't quantified, other than that he's about equal to base Vegeta and way, way weaker than himself as a SSGSS.

Time for some more Marvel vs. DB:

Iron Fist vs. Drum
Dr. Doom(not allowed to use magic) vs. SSJ2 Goku
Captain Marvel vs. Kaioshin
Rhino vs. Nam
Colossus vs. Kami

It's Marvel. Flip a coin.

[In Brightest Day]

Time for some more Marvel vs. DB:

Iron Fist vs. Drum
Captain Marvel vs. Kaioshin
Rhino vs. Nam
Colossus vs. Kami

- Iron Fist is generally only a street level threat. Drum overpowers and speedblitzes Danny without difficulty and probably has the durability to tank his trump card anyway, provided Danny was quick enough to land it.
- Carol can hang with Thor tier characters these days, so I'd say she's at least sitting around SSJ3 Goku's level. Kaioshin is doomed.
- Spiderman has regularly survived blows from Rhino so he might be able to hang with 21st Budokai tier characters in the strength department. With that said, he doesn't have the speed to compete with anyone who made it to the quarter finals, besides maybe Ranfan. Nam wins with ease.
- Kami gets smoked. Colossus is generally presented as only a tier or two below Hulk level characters. It would take someone at least around the Saiyan arc to bring Piotr down.

[ahill1]

Yajirobe ( first appearance ) vs Tambourine

[h0kuten]

Vegeta Ssj2 (BoG) vs Ultimate Gohan (BoG) ~Using only feats to determine the winnter.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Give Vegeta his enraged boost and he still loses in my opinion.

[Kamiccolo9]

Time for some more Marvel vs. DB:

Iron Fist vs. Drum
Captain Marvel vs. Kaioshin
Rhino vs. Nam
Colossus vs. Kami

- Iron Fist is generally only a street level threat. Drum overpowers and speedblitzes Danny without difficulty and probably has the durability to tank his trump card anyway, provided Danny was quick enough to land it.
- Carol can hang with Thor tier characters these days, so I'd say she's at least sitting around SSJ3 Goku's level. Kaioshin is doomed.
- Spiderman has regularly survived blows from Rhino so he might be able to hang with 21st Budokai tier characters in the strength department. With that said, he doesn't have the speed to compete with anyone who made it to the quarter finals, besides maybe Ranfan. Nam wins with ease.
- Kami gets smoked. Colossus is generally presented as only a tier or two below Hulk level characters. It would take someone at least around the Saiyan arc to bring Piotr down.

Rhino has tangled with the Hulk. No way is Namu accomplishing anything here, and Iron Fist has hurt people wielding the Phoenix Force. Danny definitely has the power to take out Drum, but I agree that he doesn't have the speed to normally keep up.

[Galan007]

Vegeta Ssj2 (BoG) vs Ultimate Gohan (BoG) ~Using only feats to determine the winnter.

Imo, Vegeta(/w/ rage-boost) became more powerful than Shin Gohan. However, because said boost was rather short-lived, I'm not sure that he'd be able to generate enough damage to put Gohan down before it timed out. /shrug

[ahill1]

Yajirobe ( first appearance ) vs Tambourine

[LightBing]

Yajirobe ( first appearance ) vs Tambourine

I say Yajirobe wins with some comfort. Goku in his little confrontation with Yajirobe, mentioned that it wouldn't be easy to defeat him. And he dispatched Tambourine easily. So by power scaling, it's a fair assumption. It's even worse if Yajirobe is hungry.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

Okay, going to take a quote to a more "relevant" place where this (rehashed and already resolved) discussion belongs.

Plot >>> logic. If Gohan were alive to face Kid Buu, you'd bet he would have Buu running for his money.

Gohan wasn't alive to face Buu and even when he was, he was stated not to be enough. Once Gohan loses to Buu, we hear about him 2 more times, we never hear about him again. But we do have 3-5 statements (including Super) Telling us how strong Goku is, how strong this new Buu is, and how they are the strongest in the universe.

Kinda silly to ignore all of that, don't you think?

After DBZ, of course Goku and Vegeta are stronger again because Gohan didn't train after he lost to Gotenks-Buu. That gap was closed quickly.

Silly to ignore what? SSJ3 Goku was only slightly stronger than Fat Buu. Most attacks had no effects. And this form was easily at least a few times weaker than normal Super Buu (without absorptions).
Goku stating he wouldn't stand a chance against Super Buu, same foe Gohan was effortlessly beating? Gohan didn't need to fuse with anyone before Buu cheated and absorbed Gotenks. He knew this was the only way he could surpass Gohan.

I suppose you believe Goku is also stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks? Since Gohan is also stronger than Gotenks, that would be a hard thought to swallow.
Gohan vs. Super Buu was an exact repeat of the Cell Games, when SSJ2 Gohan outclassed 100% Perfect Cell and just stood there waiting for Cell to do something.
Buu also states this after absorbing Gotenks - "I made this plan when I felt you in far-off space... I felt the possibility of someone stronger than me."

Then a little later, Goku arrives, throws Gohan the Potara earring. Gotenks power runs out inside Buu. Goku tells him "I'm disappointed. Gohan could beat you now." Instead of saying "*I myself* could beat you now"? That would be the more logical thing to say if Goku was stronger than Gohan. If Goku could truly take him on, he would have stayed in SSJ3 and attempted to fight him. So much evidence keeps collecting....

I read the whole Buu Arc and my conclusion remains unchanged. Either it was terribly written or I need glasses.

[dbgtFO]

All one needs to do is take a step back and realize that Toei's works don't always correspond exactly to Toriyama's.
Toriyama may have been writing for kids, but that doesn't mean he won't write the story with a little bit of logic. Whenever a character gets massively powerful or what have you, it's at least explained properly, but in Toei land, they don't really bother with that and just have Kaioshin, Goku and the narrator state, that Kid Buu is the most powerful Buu of all without actually explaining how that could be the case. They also have Vegeta being taken aback by SS2 Goku's power, when he himself equalled that power not so long ago! And it being a surprise to Kaioshin that base Vegeta couldn't do anything against Kid Buu, when it had already been established long ago, that you'd need to be at least SS2 level to take on Buu.
When I saw Gohan-Buu going nuts and breaking apart the dimensions, I thought it would make perfect sense in the anime to have someone referencing that, when they talked about Kid Buu being the most powerful, but they didn't. They don't even have Goku mentioning how he could've beat every form of Buu up until the final one either, if he really was that powerful all along.
But that's just the way it is in the anime, where being the main characters and or final villains just make you stronger by default and it continues on in DB Super.

Manga version of events: Goku < Super Buu =< Super Gotenks < Ultimate Gohan.
Anime version of events: Goku < Super Buu =< Super Gotenks < Ultimate Gohan < Gotenks-Buu < Gohan-Buu < ?Vegeta? < Goku = Kid Buu < Vegetto.
Super version of events: Everyone else < Vegeta < Goku < Vegetto < Beerus < Whis.

[Captain Space]

Rhino has tangled with the Hulk. No way is Namu accomplishing anything here,

It's a bit of a conundrum...Rhino has fought Hulk, but equally, Spider-Man has taken out Rhino, and both Spidey and Captain America have knocked Hulk around at times; Nam can't be vastly weaker than Cap, surely.

Prime example:



I'm not saying the Hulk is weak or anything, just that characters in long-running, multi-writer universes like Marvel have high-end and low-end showings for everybody (with a different writer, Hulk would've just tanked those hits unflinchingly, no matter how well-aimed they were), and Rhino being around Hulk's level is not the way he's usually presented.

Yajirobe ( first appearance ) vs Tambourine

Yajirobe, being around where Goku was at the time, and Goku took out Tambourine easily at full power.

[DBZAOTA482]

Majin Muten Roshi vs. Mystic Mr. Satan

[Kamiccolo9]

Rhino has tangled with the Hulk. No way is Namu accomplishing anything here,

It's a bit of a conundrum...Rhino has fought Hulk, but equally, Spider-Man has taken out Rhino, and both Spidey and Captain America have knocked Hulk around at times; Nam can't be vastly weaker than Cap, surely.

Prime example:



I'm not saying the Hulk is weak or anything, just that characters in long-running, multi-writer universes like Marvel have high-end and low-end showings for everybody (with a different writer, Hulk would've just tanked those hits unflinchingly, no matter how well-aimed they were), and Rhino being around Hulk's level is not the way he's usually presented.

That's Ultimate Hulk, not 616 Hulk.

Now, there is an issue with Spider-Man and Captain America taking on mainline Hulk, Fallen Son #4, in which Spider-Man is delirious from getting his ass kicked by the Rhino, and half-crazed over Captain America's death, and he has a flashback to a time when Cap helped him beat the Hulk, but, for obvious reasons (Spidey being half-mad from grief and being halfway unconscious from a major ass kicking) it's not confirmed that that fight happened the way the flashback portrayed, and it's never referenced again.

I can't recall a time when Spidey has ever physically beaten the Rhino. He's always needed outside help, or time to devise a way to scientifically beat him. Namu wouldn't have that. And as for your last comment, Rhino was a pretty consistent Hulk villain in the 80's and 90's, along with a few other Spidey villains like Sandman.

[Captain Space]

That's Ultimate Hulk, not 616 Hulk.

Ah, my bad.

Now, there is an issue with Spider-Man and Captain America taking on mainline Hulk, Fallen Son #4, in which Spider-Man is delirious from getting his ass kicked by the Rhino, and half-crazed over Captain America's death, and he has a flashback to a time when Cap helped him beat the Hulk, but, for obvious reasons (Spidey being half-mad from grief and being halfway unconscious from a major ass kicking) it's not confirmed that that fight happened the way the flashback portrayed, and it's never referenced again.

I can't recall a time when Spidey has ever physically beaten the Rhino. He's always needed outside help, or time to devise a way to scientifically beat him. Namu wouldn't have that. And as for your last comment, Rhino was a pretty consistent Hulk villain in the 80's and 90's, along with a few other Spidey villains like Sandman.

Did not know Rhino was a regular Hulk villain, fair enough there.

There is also these, though (leaving them as links because this post would be hella long otherwise):

(Also, these aren't from DB or anything, but still, if I'm not allowed to link to them, do tell me and I'll remove them.)

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ori ... 0373-1.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/sca ... _super.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ori ... _super.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ori ... _super.jpg

(The above one might be Ultimate as well, not sure. And the one below might be the flashback you were talking about but I don't think so.)

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ori ... man_16.jpg

And I am aware that Spidey has never out-punched the Rhino, but he's survived enough fights with the guy that he's got to have taken a decent few hits from him.

Anyway...I guess my original point from all of this was that one instance of Rhino fighting Hulk isn't necessarily proof, given the variable way these characters are presented, as shown in all of the above. However, if he was a regular Hulk villain and therefore fought him a lot, I suppose that counters that point.

[Kamiccolo9]

That's Ultimate Hulk, not 616 Hulk.

Ah, my bad.

Now, there is an issue with Spider-Man and Captain America taking on mainline Hulk, Fallen Son #4, in which Spider-Man is delirious from getting his ass kicked by the Rhino, and half-crazed over Captain America's death, and he has a flashback to a time when Cap helped him beat the Hulk, but, for obvious reasons (Spidey being half-mad from grief and being halfway unconscious from a major ass kicking) it's not confirmed that that fight happened the way the flashback portrayed, and it's never referenced again.

I can't recall a time when Spidey has ever physically beaten the Rhino. He's always needed outside help, or time to devise a way to scientifically beat him. Namu wouldn't have that. And as for your last comment, Rhino was a pretty consistent Hulk villain in the 80's and 90's, along with a few other Spidey villains like Sandman.

Did not know Rhino was a regular Hulk villain, fair enough there.

There is also these, though (leaving them as links because this post would be hella long otherwise):

(Also, these aren't from DB or anything, but still, if I'm not allowed to link to them, do tell me and I'll remove them.)

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ori ... 0373-1.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/sca ... _super.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ori ... _super.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ori ... _super.jpg

(The above one might be Ultimate as well, not sure. And the one below might be the flashback you were talking about but I don't think so.)

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ori ... man_16.jpg

And I am aware that Spidey has never out-punched the Rhino, but he's survived enough fights with the guy that he's got to have taken a decent few hits from him.

Anyway...I guess my original point from all of this was that one instance of Rhino fighting Hulk isn't necessarily proof, given the variable way these characters are presented, as shown in all of the above. However, if he was a regular Hulk villain and therefore fought him a lot, I suppose that counters that point.

The first and third are from very early in the characters' histories. That'd be like applying feats from BoDB Goku to his Cell Arc self. That picture is from Avengers #5 (maybe #4; I can't remember if Hulk appeared in the Lava Men issue,). Don't try to use formative 60's issues for feats; everyone has grown a lot since then.
The second is from a Hulk that actually gets weaker as he gets angrier, and Captain America only accomplishes that much because of how good a fighter he is, not due to his strength. Namu isn't Cap.
The 4th is from Heroes Reborn, which was an alternate continuity story.
The 5th is from a fight where the Hulk spends the whole time confused as to why Spider-Man is attacking him, only to let him go when he finds out Spidey is distraught because he thinks Mary Jane is dead (and it was also from the single worst writer in Spidey history, so take that as you will.)

And don't get me wrong, he's never beaten the Hulk, but he's tangled with him enough times to at least be approaching the level of a calm Savage Hulk.

[Captain Space]

I suppose I have been foiled by my merely surface-level knowledge of Marvel comics. I was also not aware that characters like the Hulk underwent a power growth comparable to Goku (who's story is a single, linear one of constant improvement) or Superman (whose Silver Age self is mind-bogglingly removed from his original appearance in terms of power, as are most of his other incarnations). I mean, I knew that the Hulk had some crazy feats that only came in in more recent years, but I didn't know that it was to that extent.

[Kamiccolo9]

I suppose I have been foiled by my merely surface-level knowledge of Marvel comics. I was also not aware that characters like the Hulk underwent a power growth comparable to Goku (who's story is a single, linear one of constant improvement) or Superman (whose Silver Age self is mind-bogglingly removed from his original appearance in terms of power, as are most of his other incarnations). I mean, I knew that the Hulk had some crazy feats that only came in in more recent years, but I didn't know that it was to that extent.

I'm a contributor to some of the big Marvel Encyclopedias, so I'm very well-read in my Marvel stuff
Yeah, the Hulk in particular is pretty insane. In his first couple of appearances in Avengers he spends most of his time ambushing them and sneaking around, and having a hard time with Iron Man's original suit, and in World War Hulk, he can destabilize continent's by walking.