DB Characters Can Bust *insert celestial object here*!

theherodjl · Post by **theherodjl** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:36 pm

Why do you suppose that certain fans of DB have to absolutely speculate that as the characters get stronger, they then begin to reach levels of busting objects as large as stars, solar systems, galaxies, or even a whole universe?
Akira Toriyama even as of writing Beerus and Golden Freeza, seems to believe that planet busting is really as far as they should go just easier each time they power up.
Toei determines that they are a little bit greater than planet busters but not by an extraordinary amount that they have reached "the next level", as we've seen in the movies and GT with how the Kamehameha can reach the sun in minutes to several seconds and create an explosive force great enough to leave a noticeable blip on it's surface.
I'm aware of "Cell said he could blow up the solar system" that the guides seem to 'support', however I like to wonder...why exactly is it so important that they reach such levels? It's not like they really need to with that the scale of their combat on any planet they are on. Even when Beerus and SSJG Goku, two of the most powerful beings in the 7th universe are giving it all they got with physical blows and zipping around the Earth aren't causing any such level of destruction that they accidentally smash it to pieces just by tapping it. In fact it's not until they charge up their stronger Ki attacks does anyone begin to state that "stop! you're going to blow up the planet!" so I would like to know where do some fans come from as to state that DB characters HAVE to be able to cause such large astral damage?
Even if we use the power levels argument with them being thousands of times greater than Freeza was when he destroyed Planet Vegeta, when you take into account that meteors, particularly the one that caused the extinction of the dinosaurs was 1.7 billion times more powerful than the most powerful nuclear weapon mankind has ever created and detonated, still failed to destroy the Earth let alone life on it. I know real life science and DB aren't 100% compatible but it would really seem to make some sense in this case that despite being thousands of times stronger than a planet buster like 1st form Freeza, they still aren't at such greater levels that they would be be busting stars, solar systems, galaxies, and the whole universe.
Do you suppose it might have to do with the Goku vs Superman debate too? What's your thoughts?

Post by **Herms** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:57 pm

What does "busting" even mean? I've always been a little vague on that. We get statements like "Beerus might destroy the entire universe!" and some people seem to automatically take that to mean Beerus can destroy the universe with one big ki blast or something along those lines, though that's only one rather specific possible interpretation. "Feats" fans seem to have their own load of terminology and rules that they take for granted, which I think often interferes with any real discussion.

Lord Beerus · Post by **Lord Beerus** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:20 pm

The only thing that busts in Dragon Ball is some of the fandoms nuts when they wank over the strength of people like Beerus, Broly, Omega Shenron etc. Who seriously cares if "X character is a Y buster"? Why is the term "busting" some freakin embraced by some of the Dragon Ball fandom? What does "busting" even mean? Fans pay too much attention to what characters can destroy that they forget that there is story to be enjoyed. Dragon Ball doesn't run on numbers, it runs of adventure, comedy, action and characterization. And some fans don't seem to realize that.

voltlunok · Post by **voltlunok** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:23 pm

Herms wrote:What does "busting" even mean? I've always been a little vague on that. We get statements like "Beerus might destroy the entire universe!" and some people seem to automatically take that to mean Beerus can destroy the universe with one big ki blast or something along those lines, though that's only one rather specific possible interpretation. "Feats" fans seem to have their own load of terminology and rules that they take for granted, which I think often interferes with any real discussion.

Generally the term busting refers to planet busting. It's a kinda cool sounding term for causing a planet to explode or just out right destroying the planet. It's used often in sci fi stuff like with devices referred to as Planet Busters. People really like labeling some characters with the titles planet buster, solar system buster and galaxy buster in a way to make them sound SUPER STRONG AND UNBEATABLE! When in all honesty that's...not really doable by scientific standards. Planet busting is doable but out right wiping out a solar system or galaxy in one shot is kinda...not doable. Anyways starting on of those debates against so...ending this here!

Hope that helps Herms.

theherodjl · Post by **theherodjl** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:26 pm

Herms wrote:What does "busting" even mean? I've always been a little vague on that. We get statements like "Beerus might destroy the entire universe!" and some people seem to automatically take that to mean Beerus can destroy the universe with one big ki blast or something along those lines, though that's only one rather specific possible interpretation. "Feats" fans seem to have their own load of terminology and rules that they take for granted, which I think often interferes with any real discussion.

I believe "busting" is along the lines of totaling something or putting it into a condition where it will no longer work, like a car after a crash derby. It's become a slang especially in internet debates.

Birusu16 · Post by **Birusu16** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:36 pm

It's already been stated by Whis that Beerus blew up two suns in the past, so that right there invalidates any notion that the best they can do is destroy planets. Not to mention him saying that if Beerus were to be angered then the whole solar system would disappear in an instant.

And I don't see what's wrong with people debating about power levels. It's just one of many aspects of the DB series. Yes, people can go overboard with it, but that doesn't make the concept inherently bad nor does it make the people who enjoy discussing it "power level fanatics" like some people refer to them as. I enjoy discussing power levels yet I enjoy the story, characters, and general universe the DB series has.

Herms wrote:What does "busting" even mean? I've always been a little vague on that. We get statements like "Beerus might destroy the entire universe!" and some people seem to automatically take that to mean Beerus can destroy the universe with one big ki blast or something along those lines, though that's only one rather specific possible interpretation. "Feats" fans seem to have their own load of terminology and rules that they take for granted, which I think often interferes with any real discussion.

It pretty much means just that. Destroying something in one shot.

voltlunok wrote:Generally the term busting refers to planet busting. It's a kinda cool sounding term for causing a planet to explode or just out right destroying the planet. It's used often in sci fi stuff like with devices referred to as Planet Busters. People really like labeling some characters with the titles planet buster, solar system buster and galaxy buster in a way to make them sound SUPER STRONG AND UNBEATABLE! When in all honesty that's...not really doable by scientific standards. Planet busting is doable but out right wiping out a solar system or galaxy in one shot is kinda...not doable. Anyways starting on of those debates against so...ending this here! Hope that helps Herms.

You can't exactly use scientific standards to judge what is and isn't possible in a fictional series. By scientific standards one shouldn't be able to fly yet everyone and their mother can do it in DB. By scientific standards one shouldn't be able to shoot beams and waves of energy from their hands yet everyone and their mother can do it in DB. It's fiction for a reason.

Cipher · Post by **Cipher** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:57 pm

Herms wrote:What does "busting" even mean? I've always been a little vague on that. We get statements like "Beerus might destroy the entire universe!" and some people seem to automatically take that to mean Beerus can destroy the universe with one big ki blast or something along those lines, though that's only one rather specific possible interpretation. "Feats" fans seem to have their own load of terminology and rules that they take for granted, which I think often interferes with any real discussion.

Ha, I've always wondered that too. Like, what does "busting" a solar system look like? Does it just mean they destroy a star? When you "bust" a galaxy or universe, do you have to sit there until the ki from a single blast extends far enough to vaporize everything? Do you fire a blast at ... the center? ... of the universe? Like, I just want someone to explain what that looks like.

Anyway, Kame Sen'nin totally busts moons all day long. He can hardly control the insatiable urge to bust moons. And if you recall, when Trunks asks Cell what his motivation is, he says, "Obviously, to bust solar systems. I'll bust any solar system I see." It's right there in the manga. It's never made much sense to me, but there it is. And that's why to this day, when we talk about Dragon Ball characters, we talk about their need to bust celestial objects.

Post by **Herms** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:02 pm

And I don't see what's wrong with people debating about power levels. It's just one of many aspects of the DB series.

There's nothing wrong with it, so long as people can debate this stuff in a friendly and interesting way that doesn't break down into them biting each other's heads off.

pacz360 · Post by **pacz360** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:08 pm

[quote="Birusu16"]It's already been stated by Whis that Beerus blew up two suns in the past, so that right there invalidates any notion that the best they can do is destroy planets. Not to mention him saying that if Beerus were to be angered then the whole solar system would disappear in an instant.)
Pretty much this and you got goku going toe to toe with him and freeza while weakened as hell palm smacked the earth or at least use kiai to destroy it in a weakened form. Plus can this be a feats thread?

Birusu16 · Post by **Birusu16** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:08 pm

Herms wrote:
And I don't see what's wrong with people debating about power levels. It's just one of many aspects of the DB series.
There's nothing wrong with it, so long as people can debate this stuff in a friendly and interesting way that doesn't break down into them biting each other's heads off.

That's one thing I can certainly agree on.

The Monkey King · Post by **The Monkey King** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:32 pm

theherodjl wrote:Akira Toriyama even as of writing Beerus and Golden Freeza, seems to believe that planet busting is really as far as they should go just easier each time they power up.

No Whis stated Beerus can destroy an entire solar system in an instant in BoG.

He also stated that Beerus destroyed several stars within a 3 minutes at most in RoF

h0kuten · Post by **h0kuten** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:34 pm

Piccolo (Saiyan Saga) = Moon Buster
Vegeta (Saiyan Saga) = Planet Buster
Frieza = Star Buster
Super Perfect Cell = Solar System Buster
Majin Boo = Galaxy Buster
Beerus = Universe Buster

Cetra · Post by **Cetra** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:35 pm

Peter Venkman = Ghost Buster

Post by **TripleRach** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:33 pm

h0kuten wrote:Piccolo (Saiyan Saga) = Moon Buster
Vegeta (Saiyan Saga) = Planet Buster
Freeza = Star Buster
Super Perfect Cell = Solar System Buster
Majin Boo = Galaxy Buster
Beerus = Universe Buster

This is a list that doesn't really do much to address the original question. Why not explain these things in complete sentences and the overall mentality behind them?

Even as a list, the terminology is still vague. By "moon" do you mean natural satellites in general, which come in various sizes, or just Earth's Moon (aka Luna)? Planets and stars also greatly vary in size. And by "solar system" do you mean the system revolving around Sol, or any planetary system?

Of course I'm just a wannabe astronomy nerd. But still, let's have a real discussion here and not just make basic lists with mathematical symbols.

Lord Beerus · Post by **Lord Beerus** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:48 pm

h0kuten wrote:Piccolo (Saiyan Saga) = Moon Buster
Vegeta (Saiyan Saga) = Planet Buster
Freeza = Star Buster
Super Perfect Cell = Solar System Buster
Majin Boo = Galaxy Buster
Beerus = Universe Buster

Akira Toriyama = Continuity Buster

KameRule · Post by **KameRule** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:55 pm

Obviously power scaling is viable as long as power levels are used, but anything post Freeza is usually just hyperbole. Like, some claims (i.e. Cell could destroy the Solar System with his Kamehameha) are somewhat believable, but the series itself is so inconsistent when it comes to what characters can and can't do, so there's no real sense in trying to measure their power in ambiguous terms like "Kid Buu could destroy a universe of unknown size via unspecified means and over an unspecified period of time! That's strong!"

I'm pretty sure that at some point, if characters wanted to demonstrate their power, they could just be like "check this shit" and blow up some galaxy with their little finger, instead of just boasting about it.

theherodjl · Post by **theherodjl** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:34 pm

The Monkey King wrote:
theherodjl wrote:Akira Toriyama even as of writing Beerus and Golden Freeza, seems to believe that planet busting is really as far as they should go just easier each time they power up.
No Whis stated Beerus can destroy an entire solar system in an instant in BoG.

He also stated that Beerus destroyed several stars within a 3 minutes at most in RoF

If I recall Herms saying in another post regarding the line from BOG, Whis says that the solar system "will be wiped out in no time flat" not necessarily that Beerus will blow it up in an instant but the fact that Beerus has destroyed stars pretty much means that a solar system will die by extension. So I guess this latest info means they do go to star busting but so far it takes the Godly level to do so.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:37 pm

Cetra wrote:Peter Venkman = Ghost Buster

Jamie Hyneman = Myth Buster

Trunks = Finish Buster

GBU-57 = Bunker Buster

Evander Holyfield = Buster Buster

Post by **Herms** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:21 pm

KameRule wrote:I'm pretty sure that at some point, if characters wanted to demonstrate their power, they could just be like "check this shit" and blow up some galaxy with their little finger, instead of just boasting about it.[/color]

I think it'd be hard to depict such a demonstration convincingly; ultimately wouldn't a "galaxy-busting" attack just be a big explosion in space? In which case it would look pretty much the same as the destruction of Namek or Earth, despite being a gazillion times larger in scale. I'm sure there's got to be some good way to do it, but I can understand why stuff like "even the solar system/galaxy/universe will be destroyed!" is kept to dialogue rather than being carried out. The other thing is that a character destroying a galaxy for demonstration purposes would be a bit of a bust. If they destroy the galaxy they're in, then it becomes less "demonstration" and more "active attack on all the characters". And if they destroy a galaxy they're not in, then they're destroying something light-years and light-years away, which makes the "demonstration" aspect tricky. Unless it's played strictly for comedy:

A: "See that galaxy over there?"
B: ".....no."
A: *fires beam* "Well, it's destroyed now."
B: "I'll take your word for it."

BrolyLSSJ · Post by **BrolyLSSJ** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:29 pm

Because power scaling logic......and plus that's the only way hardcore fans can even argue they can par with entities from other series but if you ask for a feat the hardcore fanboys wont pos them so they retain the concept of Power scaling and calculations to post and make assumptions/speculations which are in their favor.

Me personally I dont think goku is a planet buster like most others we get bashed upon because we like feats and official statements than Speculations,Assumptions,Power scaling, and fan calculations is that wrong? No just means we aren't over powering a character who hasn't gotten the power to do what another has.....

Kanzenshuu

DB Characters Can Bust insert celestial object here!

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