Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
h0kuten wrote:I see Gohan's Mystic state as his own version of Super Saiyan 3.
Berserker1921 wrote:I personally think mystic form is just a mastered ssj3 or pre God power
I'm just going by the retcon of Goku being stronger than Gohan when Kid Buu appeared. It changes things all of a sudden, so I gotta consider a different multiplier, and it makes sense that Gohan, in not having achieved SSJ3 nor mastered SSJ2, would have his power brought out beyond his limits (SSJ2), but as a natural state and fully powered. However, he was already weaker than Goku by the time of the Babidi/Buu saga, so a SSJ3-like multiplier would still put him below SSJ3 Goku, but what about Vegeta and Gotenks?
h0kuten wrote:I see Gohan's Mystic state as his own version of Super Saiyan 3.
Berserker1921 wrote:I personally think mystic form is just a mastered ssj3 or pre God power
I'm just going by the retcon of Goku being stronger than Gohan when Kid Buu appeared. It changes things all of a sudden, so I gotta consider a different multiplier, and it makes sense that Gohan, in not having achieved SSJ3 nor mastered SSJ2, would have his power brought out beyond his limits (SSJ2), but as a natural state and fully powered. However, he was already weaker than Goku by the time of the Babidi/Buu saga, so a SSJ3-like multiplier would still put him below SSJ3 Goku, but what about Vegeta and Gotenks?
Is he stronger than Gohan? Cause I have a REALLY hard time believing Goku could stand a snow flakes chance in hell of fighting a guy stronger than Buuhan without resorting to any kind of fusion with Vegeta.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
We'd have had an infinitely better bad guy/saga than the Boo one.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
h0kuten wrote:I see Gohan's Mystic state as his own version of Super Saiyan 3.
Berserker1921 wrote:I personally think mystic form is just a mastered ssj3 or pre God power
I'm just going by the retcon of Goku being stronger than Gohan when Kid Buu appeared. It changes things all of a sudden, so I gotta consider a different multiplier, and it makes sense that Gohan, in not having achieved SSJ3 nor mastered SSJ2, would have his power brought out beyond his limits (SSJ2), but as a natural state and fully powered. However, he was already weaker than Goku by the time of the Babidi/Buu saga, so a SSJ3-like multiplier would still put him below SSJ3 Goku, but what about Vegeta and Gotenks?
Is he stronger than Gohan? Cause I have a REALLY hard time believing Goku could stand a snow flakes chance in hell of fighting a guy stronger than Buuhan without resorting to any kind of fusion with Vegeta.
But we never saw Goku fight him in ssj3. He might have stood a better chance. However like I said I saw mystic gohan as mastered form of ssj3 or pre God form. Because ssj3 has a lot of power the biggest negative of it was the energy drain. Is it as powerful as mystic or ultimate gohan. No. But I think it is close to it. I see ssj3 as the underdeveloped form of Mystics or perhaps a mutated ssj2.
h0kuten wrote:Could Vegetto Super Saiyan 3 stop him in his Oozaru form?
Vegetto Ssj3 >=< Goku Ssj4 (Friends Energy) > Baby Golden Oozaru > Goku Ssj4
They could never fuse because Vegeta would have been the enemy. Or possibly it be cool that baby was able to replicate his DNa at first. So baby would become a tuffle/Saiyan hybrid. Then I could see vegito existing.
They all die against the Saiyans or the Androids. Either that, or Freeza eventually rules the entire universe.
h0kuten wrote:What if Baby Vegeta appeared instead of Majin Boo during the Boo Saga?
He'd exterminate all the Saiyans on the spot.
What if Yamcha and Chi-Chi started dating? What would happen during the date? How would Goku react if he knew?
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
h0kuten wrote:Could Vegetto Super Saiyan 3 stop him in his Oozaru form?
Vegetto Ssj3 >=< Goku Ssj4 (Friends Energy) > Baby Golden Oozaru > Goku Ssj4
They could never fuse because Vegeta would have been the enemy. Or possibly it be cool that baby was able to replicate his DNa at first. So baby would become a tuffle/Saiyan hybrid. Then I could see vegito existing.
ekrolo2 wrote:
Is he stronger than Gohan? Cause I have a REALLY hard time believing Goku could stand a snow flakes chance in hell of fighting a guy stronger than Buuhan without resorting to any kind of fusion with Vegeta.
But we never saw Goku fight him in ssj3. He might have stood a better chance. However like I said I saw mystic gohan as mastered form of ssj3 or pre God form. Because ssj3 has a lot of power the biggest negative of it was the energy drain. Is it as powerful as mystic or ultimate gohan. No. But I think it is close to it. I see ssj3 as the underdeveloped form of Mystics or perhaps a mutated ssj2.
I don't consider it a Super Saiyan form at all but basically a vastly superior version to what Guru did on Namek: a potential unlock that increases your base power. Except Old Kai's lets you basically access not just all the power you can have at the moment, but all the power you could conceivably achieve in your natural life span.
We saw Goku fight Kid Buu in Super Saiyan 3 and do a fairly good job of it at that which makes the aforementioned retcon of Goku suddenly being stronger than Gohan impossible. Even after clearing out everything Buu absorbed, minus the fat one, Goku still said regular Super Buu would kick his and Vegeta's asses if they didn't fuse. The fact Goku is afraid of fighting regular Super Buu without fusion alone makes it impossible for him to suddenly get stronger than Gohan within the same arc.
h0kuten wrote:
Berserker1921 wrote:
h0kuten wrote:Could Vegetto Super Saiyan 3 stop him in his Oozaru form?
Vegetto Ssj3 >=< Goku Ssj4 (Friends Energy) > Baby Golden Oozaru > Goku Ssj4
They could never fuse because Vegeta would have been the enemy. Or possibly it be cool that baby was able to replicate his DNa at first. So baby would become a tuffle/Saiyan hybrid. Then I could see vegito existing.
Could Vegetto beat Baby Vegeta?
Baby's power increase is pretty hard to gauge but considering the fact Vegeta getting possessed by him resulted in him leaving the vastly stronger GT version of Goku in the dust, I think its pretty fair to say anything less than Gohan attaining mystic and him potara fusing with his dad wouldn't be able to dent a Baby possessed Vegeta, especially one who's pretty close to Goku's regular strength.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
Lunatic Fringe wrote:What if #16 was never activated?
What if Tambourine didn't kill Krillin, just injure him severely?
What if Grandpa Gohan didn't get killed by Goku?
-Gohan doesn't rage in time during the Cell Games
-Goku never meets Yajirobe therefore Piccolo Daimao kills everyone
-Goku becomes even stronger
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Lunatic Fringe wrote:What if #16 was never activated?
What if Tambourine didn't kill Krillin, just injure him severely?
What if Grandpa Gohan didn't get killed by Goku?
1. Gohan would never become a SSj2 and everyone dies. If Gohan did became a SSj2 if Goku died from Cell Jr then everyone would still die when Cell blows up the Earth.
2. Goku would have never met Yajirobe which would have him die against Vegeta years later.
3. Goku would have never go out on his adventure with Bluma and Pilaf would end up showing up to get the 4th star Dragon Ball from Goku and Grandpa Gohan. Pilaf would have been defeated then the RR Army would have shown up later. General Blue could have killed them both and the RR army would have taken over the world. Radditz shows up later and kill everyone on Earth. Freeza would continued to rule his empire, Babidi and Dabra would have gone to another Planet to look to restore Majin Buu. Beerus and Whis would have keep on destroying planets and Beerus would have killed Freeza in the end.
Gohan (Cell Games; after beating Cell) - The one who tapped into his hidden potential and saved the world.
Gohan (Ultimate) - The one who slacked, clearly regretted it, but was later blessed with a new power and will to fight.
Gohan (F) - The one who abandoned all martial arts in favor of his studies and family life.
They are all teleported into a conference room together.
What do they tell each other?
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
fadeddreams5 wrote:Gohan (Cell Games; after beating Cell) - The one who tapped into his hidden potential and saved the world.
Gohan (Ultimate) - The one who slacked, clearly regretted it, but was later blessed with a new power and will to fight.
Gohan (F) - The one who abandoned all martial arts in favor of his studies and family life.
They are all teleported into a conference room together.
What do they tell each other?
Gohan (Cell Games; after beating Cell): So I become even more stronger than I was against Cell by sitting down and doing nothing?
Gohan (Ultimate): Well... father was proud.
Gohan (F): And later on... you become a dad and you're on your way to being a scholar.
Gohan (Cell Games; after beating Cell): I still manage to save the day when it matters, right?
Gohan (Ultimate): Uh... well... I get beaten and killed by a giant pink monster that can turn people into candy.
Gohan (F): And Freeza returns to nearly kill me in his first form. But you have a beautiful wife and daugh--
Gohan (Cell Games; after beating Cell): ...This conference is over. I must go and reevaluate my priorities.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
