Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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Sayo-chan
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by Sayo-chan » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:42 pm
RandomGuy96 wrote:Chapter: 509 (DBZ 315), P11.4-6
Context: as Goku prepares to fight Boo
Goku: “Alrii~~iight. I’d better go all out right from the start…! If we get done in, then the entire universe will go ‘poof’…”
OMG! Second weakest incarnation of Buu >>>> Beerus.
Sayo-chan wrote:I've already created a post concerning Cell's ability to destroy the solar system, which I'll quote below.
This is also shown happening in a video game cutscene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6MlSurcqR4
Right. I mentioned that Ultimate Budoten explored the possibility.
I also did my best to read what the
guidebook said about Cell, but I had a difficult time because some of the text was difficult to make out, because I suck:
そのパワーは, 太陽系を吹き飛ばす
返カのセルのエネルギー弾を押し返すほとだ!
Its power [Gohan's energy bullet] was strong enough to push back Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the solar system!
Most Dragon Ball fans are incapable of making a logically sound argument.
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VegettoEX
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by VegettoEX » Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:54 am
Sayo-chan wrote:I also did my best to read what the
guidebook said about Cell, but I had a difficult time because some of the text was difficult to make out, because I suck:
そのパワーは, 太陽系を吹き飛ばす
返カのセルのエネルギー弾を押し返すほとだ!
Its power [Gohan's energy bullet] was strong enough to push back Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the solar system!
Jake covered this in
a previous discussion (which also led to
this post being made):
Herms wrote:Super Saiyan Grade Five (Strongest Form)
An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One's personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [|
Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager
(note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
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Galan007
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by Galan007 » Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:03 pm
h0kuten wrote:Herms =Episode 4=
Minute: 21
Elder Kaioshin: "Beerus-sama's actions are no different from the workings of nature. We can do nothing but wait until the storm passes. He might not settle for a planet or two this time...The entire universe might disappear!"
Kaioshin: "T-The entire universe?"
Elder Kaioshin said nearly the exact same thing about Majin Boo. This certainly does not mean Boo was capable of insta-universe-busting, however.
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BrolyLSSJ
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by BrolyLSSJ » Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:19 pm
Cell isnt Solar system....
Beerus isnt Universe level.....
Lets all just deal with it because its pointless going back and forth.
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Saiyan007
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by Saiyan007 » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:01 pm
BrolyLSSJ wrote:Cell isnt Solar system....
Beerus isnt Universe level.....
Lets all just deal with it because its pointless going back and forth.
Comments like these add no part in this discussion
There is proof from guidebooks that back up Cell's comment and both Supreme kai and King Kai say he can destroy the universe if he wanted too.
So we don't have to deal with anything just becuase you find it pointless.So yes both Cell and Beerus can be at that level if you want them to be,they both have things backing them up.
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soduh2
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by soduh2 » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:09 pm
Dragon Ball has a reputation for having ridiculously powerful characters. Some fans embrace it, others do not. Both sides feel they are being completely objective.
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h0kuten
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by h0kuten » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:36 pm
Statements are true until contradicted. Dragonball Super's Anime over-rides it's manga interpretation.
Vegeta = Planet Buster (Stated in Daizenshuu & original Manga)
Super Perfect Cell = Solar System Buster (Stated in the original Manga)
Beerus = Universe Buster (Stated in Dragonball Super)
The author uses the characters to tell the story. Anytime there is a mistake, they go out of their way to correct it. All said statements are not contradicted and therefore valid strength statement.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:02 pm
h0kuten wrote:Statements are true until contradicted. Dragonball Super's Anime over-rides it's manga interpretation.
Vegeta = Planet Buster (Stated in Daizenshuu & original Manga)
Super Perfect Cell = Solar System Buster (Stated in the original Manga)
Beerus = Universe Buster (Stated in Dragonball Super)
The author uses the characters to tell the story. Anytime there is a mistake, they go out of their way to correct it. All said statements are not contradicted and therefore valid strength statement.
Majin Boo is a Universe Buster then by your logic, since it was stated in the manga that he would destroy the universe.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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h0kuten
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by h0kuten » Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:04 pm
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:h0kuten wrote:Statements are true until contradicted. Dragonball Super's Anime over-rides it's manga interpretation.
Vegeta = Planet Buster (Stated in Daizenshuu & original Manga)
Super Perfect Cell = Solar System Buster (Stated in the original Manga)
Beerus = Universe Buster (Stated in Dragonball Super)
The author uses the characters to tell the story. Anytime there is a mistake, they go out of their way to correct it. All said statements are not contradicted and therefore valid strength statement.
Majin Boo is a Universe Buster then by your logic, since it was stated in the manga that he would destroy the universe.
It's also a gag manga. That was obviously, a gag statement.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:05 pm
h0kuten wrote:DBZGTKOSDH wrote:h0kuten wrote:Statements are true until contradicted. Dragonball Super's Anime over-rides it's manga interpretation.
Vegeta = Planet Buster (Stated in Daizenshuu & original Manga)
Super Perfect Cell = Solar System Buster (Stated in the original Manga)
Beerus = Universe Buster (Stated in Dragonball Super)
The author uses the characters to tell the story. Anytime there is a mistake, they go out of their way to correct it. All said statements are not contradicted and therefore valid strength statement.
Majin Boo is a Universe Buster then by your logic, since it was stated in the manga that he would destroy the universe.
It's also a gag manga. That was obviously, a gag statement.
How was that a gag statement?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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h0kuten
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by h0kuten » Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:06 pm
How was it not?
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:14 pm
h0kuten wrote:How was it not?
I'm dumb, and I don't understand. Can you explain?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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xJeffx
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by xJeffx » Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:16 pm
Maybe Beerus could compress everything in the Universe into a single point and then making it explode thus creating another big bang.
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saunasolmu
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by saunasolmu » Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:54 am
While it doesn't necessarily or even probably mean anything like destroying the universe with a single blast, assuming he'd do it planet-by-planet is akin to "destroying" the Earth dust particle by dust particle and in the end leaving 99,99999% of it's mass completely unharmed.
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Friezacooler
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by Friezacooler » Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:18 am
I am sure if he feels like it, he selects which ones he wants or blast all the planets and stars in the cosmos in half casually. from where he is standing lol.
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Blackstripe
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by Blackstripe » Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:14 am
I think Beerus can probably destroy galaxies, maybe even clusters of galaxies...but not the whole universe. At least, not until I see more statements/evidence.
Still, he could definitely destroy the universe in short order with that power, in combination with his speed.
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MisterGuyMan
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by MisterGuyMan » Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:42 am
Why are people doubting that Cell is a Solar System buster? If a guide flat out says he can bust a solar system then what's the issue?
Also the Broly galaxy busting feat is an outlier and not canon to anything outside of the Broly movie. The argument that he busts them one at a time flying from one planet to the next is actually worse. Broly would need to be trillions of times FTL to destroy a healthy spiral galaxy comprised of hundreds of billions of stars tens of thousands of light years apart from each other even over the span over his entire lifetime. It would also mean he's a Super Nova buster as an infant since the biggest stars baddest celestial bodies are located in the center of each Spiral Galaxy and Broly destroyed those first. This version of Broly is actually even worse in powerscaling terms.
Beers might be a Universe buster but I don't think that single statement is enough. He's an anything else buster though according to King Kai. IIRC in one episode King Kai said that Beers could destroy anything in the universe. Was that a legitimate translation?
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saunasolmu
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by saunasolmu » Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:58 am
What does 'anything in the universe' even mean, really? Does it mean he can destroy any single celestial body, such as moons, planets, stars and black holes, or does that include galaxies as well? Wouldn't the whole universe be included in "anything in the universe" as well?
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Friezacooler
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by Friezacooler » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:16 am
Don't be surprised if he does to the universe what he did to those planets and the Suns lol. Casually blast it with a tiny ki blast lol.
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Galan007
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by Galan007 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:53 pm
h0kuten wrote:It's also a gag manga. That was obviously, a gag statement.
I don't think you know what you're talking about.
Elder Kaioshin's comment regarding Boo was certainly not a 'gag'--he was stating a fact:
Per him: Boo would have destroyed the universe had he not been stopped. However, this certainly does not mean that Boo could have wiped out the universe with a single attack or w/e. For all we know, it may have taken him
eons to do so.
The
exact same logic applies to Elder Kaioshin's comment about Beerus potentially destroying the universe. Absolutely
nothing implies that he can do so instantly.
