The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Kaboom]

h0kuten and RandomGuy96, if neither of you are going to let this conversation end amicably, then there's no point in having it. Obviously neither of you is going to convince the other about... whatever the topic is, and little is happening but veiled insults being flung back and forth.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

2. I'm not seeing how is relevant to your attempt to prove Goku's stronger than them.

Then you're not looking hard enough. Goku's easy defeat was enough for Vegeta to realize that no one on earth stood a chance against Beers. That means Gohan or Gotenks can't do shit to someone who could easily down Goku in a few hits because they're not on that (Goku's) level themselves. Simple.

3. I'm getting really, really sick if you just saying "it doesn't matter" when you can't think of a rebuttal. Goku gets taken down easily. Vegeta is shocked. Gotenks and Gohan get taken down easily. Vegeta is shocked and comments that Beerus is stronger than he thought. Simple.

That's total bs. He's shocked that they were all defeated by Beers in that fashion. Gohan and Gotenks' defeat isn't acknowledged as anything special by Vegeta....or anyone for that matter. The movie goes out of its way to show that neither is relevant to anything at this point, which is why they're swatted aside as if they were nothing.

4. Guys are acknowledged as stronger than expected... when they're stronger than expected. He knew Beerus took down Goku with two hits, yet was still surprised that Beerus could easily take down Gotenks.

Yes, Vegeta's shocked that Gotenks is easily defeated even though he's the one who says Gotenks will get his ass rolled if he takes on Beers. That makes sense.....Not!

There's nothing in there about him just comprehending the difference better, since he already knew what the difference was. There's absolutely no reason for him to be shocked if Goku was stronger than Gohan and Gotenks. If Beerus can take down Goku in two hits, then no shit he can take down anyone weaker than that in two hits.

There is considering Vegeta's about to be killed by Beers and is making an observation based on how he handled all of them as a whole. Furthermore, Vegeta's opinion on Beers was already made when he heard about Goku. Seeing the power of Beers in action was even more impressive and was beyond his comprehension. The defeat of Gohan and Gotenks is meaningless by itself.

5. Except Gotenks and Gohan. They were stronger than Goku, or at least Gotenks was, as clearly implied by Vegeta's statement (and promotional material). At the absolute most, his reaction to Goku being defeated just means that no one else would be capable of nearly killing Goku with two hits. His "I never imagined Beerus would be this strong" after Gotenks loses is clear and obvious in its meaning.

His reaction means that no one on earth has a chance to stop Beers, so he's going to do his very best not to piss him off like we see in the actual movie. Yeah, it's so obvious even though Vegeta already knew Gotenks had no chance. Again, that makes no sense.

6. Why would the defeat of the group shock him if none of them were stronger than Goku? They all engaged him at one at a time rather than trying to team up on him (except when Piccolo and 18 rushed him), and again, no shit a guy can knock out people weaker than Goku in two hits. So what shocked him? What feat did Beerus perform that put him above merely "two-shots Goku" level?

What shocked him was seeing Beers' power in action. Vegeta was already convinced none of them could do anything to Beers, so it's not like he was expecting Gohan or Gotenks to do anything differently. And everyone was still on Goku's jock when he returned, so they obviously was expecting him to make a difference. Gohan goes from looking all worried to looking happy when Goku is walking up to Beers.

Since Vegeta is weaker than Goku, it can't be easily defeating Vegeta in more than two hits. Since Piccolo, 18, and Tenshinhan are all total fodder (Dabra slaughtered a roughly equal team in seconds back in the Buu arc), it can't be Beerus easily taking them out. Since Mr. Buu is also weaker than Goku, it can't be taking him out in more than two hits. There's nothing else he could be referring to besides Gohan and Gotenks losing (specifically Gotenks, since he only says it after Gotenks is easily beaten, and Goten and Trunks were confident in Gotenks winning after everyone else lost).

But the point is Vegeta knew that Gohan and Gotenks couldn't do anything after finding out how Goku was dismantled. That alone speaks volumes. Their defeat isn't really a big deal when you look at the fact that it was to be expected.

7. Their potential was acknowledged at the end.

Because they were the strongest and the ones Beers was expecting to be a challenge for him in the future. Simple.

Edit: Sorry for doing this in the Versus topic, Kaboom.

[h0kuten]

Goten + Trunks Post ROST Ssj3 vs Vegeta Ssj3 Pre-Majin

Goten + Trunks Post ROST Ssj2 vs Majin Vegeta Ssj2

Fat Boo vs Goten + Trunks Post ROST Ssj + Majin Vegeta Ssj2 + Z-Sword Gohan Ssj2 + Goku Ssj2 + Piccolo + Kuririn

^This should be interesting. What would happen if Majin Vegeta let Goten + Trunks enter the ROST & Gohan to train with the Z-Sword? Then, they all devise a plan and mob Boo together.

Goten + Trunks Ssj Pre-ROST vs Teen Gohan Ssj

Fat Boo vs Z-Sword Gohan Ssj2 (Has 3 Senzu beans)

Super Perfect Cell + Majin Vegeta Ssj2 vs Kid Gohan Ssj2 + Goku Ssj2

Piccolo (FnF) vs Dabura (Buu)

[Noah]

Why you guys think that Gohan with Z-Sword got stronger? I mean, how much time he trained with the sword before broke it? A couple of hours?

[DBZAOTA482]

Rock Lee (when he fought Rock Lee) vs. Spopovich

[Doctor.]

Why you guys think that Gohan with Z-Sword got stronger? I mean, how much time he trained with the sword before broke it? A couple of hours?

Kaioshin tells him to fight Boo, Gohan wants to fight Boo, Gohan is able to move the sword easily in base form when he could barely use it in Super Saiyan before.

[Sayo-chan]

Super Perfect Cell + Majin Vegeta Ssj2 vs Kid Gohan Ssj2 + Goku Ssj2

Team Evil would would win due to Cell's regeneration. They'd also be far more brutal and willing to kill their opponents, thereby making them a dangerous combination. Now, I think it's likely that Bobidi would also target Cell if he saw how powerful he was. Majin Cell > > > > > > Majin Vegeta, SSJ2 Gohan and SSJ2 Goku.

[h0kuten]

Why you guys think that Gohan with Z-Sword got stronger? I mean, how much time he trained with the sword before broke it? A couple of hours?

Kaioshin tells him to fight Boo, Gohan wants to fight Boo, Gohan is able to move the sword easily in base form when he could barely use it in Super Saiyan before.

Muscle strength is different than Ki.

[supercat]

Goten + Trunks Post ROST Ssj3 vs Vegeta Ssj3 Pre-Majin

Goten + Trunks Post ROST Ssj2 vs Majin Vegeta Ssj2

Fat Boo vs Goten + Trunks Post ROST Ssj + Majin Vegeta Ssj2 + Z-Sword Gohan Ssj2 + Goku Ssj2 + Piccolo + Kuririn

^This should be interesting. What would happen if Majin Vegeta let Goten + Trunks enter the ROST & Gohan to train with the Z-Sword? Then, they all devise a plan and mob Boo together.

Goten + Trunks Ssj Pre-ROST vs Teen Gohan Ssj

Fat Boo vs Z-Sword Gohan Ssj2 (Has 3 Senzu beans)

Super Perfect Cell + Majin Vegeta Ssj2 vs Kid Gohan Ssj2 + Goku Ssj2

Piccolo (FnF) vs Dabura (Buu)

-Vegeta reminds his son that he's the man of the house for a reason.

-Vegeta has enough of a power advantage to teach the kids some respect while steering them away from a rebellious path.

-SSJ2 Goku, Majin Vegeta, and Z-Sword Gohan took turns pummeling Buu to the ground, until the vile menace snapped and incinerated the trio along with the cowards who stood around watching.

-All three seem pretty equal.

-The efficacy of the Zenkais seemed quite trivial by the Buu arc, so Buu still wins.

-Gohan goes bug catching again, while Goku eventually gives Vegeta one more thing to cry about.

-Dabura orders Piccolo to never call himself the Demon King again.

[h0kuten]

Odin Destroyer vs Beerus

Kal Kent vs Goku Super Saiyan God (BoG)

Superboy Prime vs Goku Base Post (BoG)

Savage Hulk vs Goku Kaio-Kenx4 Kamehameha + Vegeta Gallic Gun

The Silver Surfer vs Super Perfect Cell

Goku Ssj4 (Buu) vs Super Boo

Raging Vegeta Ssj3 (BoG) vs Super Vegetto

Trunks Ssj2 (Mecha) vs Piccolo (Androids)

Vegeta Ssj3 (Cell Games) vs Kid Gohan Ssj2 + Super Perfect Cell

Wally West Blood-Lusted vs Whiss w/Staff

[ZombieVito]

Perfect Cell [vs Goku/Gohan] vs SSJ Gohan [non pussy mode].

Fight to the death. Who wins?

[Sora Saiyan]

Super Perfect Cell + Majin Vegeta Ssj2 vs Kid Gohan Ssj2 + Goku Ssj2

I still give Gohan a decent boost over Cell at that point, considering his power was reduced by 50% he did a great job at holding him off and eventually killing him (which means at less than 100% he could destroy Cell to a point he couldn't regenerate from). So as long as he's enraged at 100% it's his win. Then he helps Goku defeat Majin Vegeta and its finished. Team 2 wins.

[Captain Space]

Why you guys think that Gohan with Z-Sword got stronger? I mean, how much time he trained with the sword before broke it? A couple of hours?

Kaioshin tells him to fight Boo, Gohan wants to fight Boo, Gohan is able to move the sword easily in base form when he could barely use it in Super Saiyan before.

Muscle strength is different than Ki.

After the Z-Sword breaks, this conversation ensues (Viz manga's English translation):

Gohan: "But...at least I got a good workout! It was really heavy...maybe that was the point?"

Kaioshin: "Yes...if you gain so much strength, you'll be even greater once you turn Super Saiyan! That must be it! That's the power!!"

Goku: "But...I dunno...if he's better than Boo..."

So that implies he gained at least a little bit of power.

[Hellspawn28]

Odin would beat Beerus since he can soul rip and not to mention he is way faster since he was fighting Forsung the Enchanter across the universe in a matter of minutes. He would just smash Beerus into pieces. Silver Surfer would also beat Cell given that he has crazy energy manipulation, so he would just turn all of Cell's ki into useless light. Cell's attacks would be useless.

[Lord Beerus]

Perfect Cell [vs Goku/Gohan] vs SSJ Gohan [non pussy mode].

Fight to the death. Who wins?

Cell gets his ass kicked.

[fadeddreams5]

Kaioshin vs Imperfect Cell (Pre-absorption)

Kaioshin vs Imperfect Cell (Post-absorption)

Kaioshin vs. #16

Kaioshin vs. Semi-Perfect Cell

Kaioshin vs. "Super" Vegeta

[ahill1]

Kamiccolo ( buu saga ) vs Vegeta SSJ ( cell games )

[ahill1]

Kaioshin vs Imperfect Cell (Pre-absorption)

Kaioshin vs Imperfect Cell (Post-absorption)

Kaioshin vs. #16

Kaioshin vs. Semi-Perfect Cell

Kaioshin vs. "Super" Vegeta

1) It's a good fight-they both have the same power; I think Kaioshin wins due to the use of magic

2) Imperfect Cell(post) stomps

3) 16 stomps

4) Semi Perfect Cell stomps

5) Super Vegeta stomps

[Lord Beerus]

Kaioshin vs Imperfect Cell (Pre-absorption)

Kaioshin vs Imperfect Cell (Post-absorption)

Kaioshin vs. #16

Kaioshin vs. Semi-Perfect Cell

Kaioshin vs. "Super" Vegeta

Kaioshin wins all those match ups. I see Kioashin's strength being in low SSJ2 tier given that he was able to survive a beating from Majin Buu (pre-spilt).

[ahill1]

Kaioshin vs Imperfect Cell (Pre-absorption)

Kaioshin vs Imperfect Cell (Post-absorption)

Kaioshin vs. #16

Kaioshin vs. Semi-Perfect Cell

Kaioshin vs. "Super" Vegeta

Kaioshin wins all those match ups. I see Kioashin's strength being in low SSJ2 tier given that he was able to survive a beating from Majin Buu (pre-spilt).

I think Kaioshin is way weaker than Kamiccolo(buu saga) - Vegeta base also survived a stronger version of Buu