The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Captain Space » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:41 pm

supercat wrote:
You're missing the point. Let's assume half of these hypothetical fights actually came to fruition. Do you realize just how anticlimactic it would be if multiple characters were uneventfully reduced to a statue or a piece of candy on a regular basis? Resorting to such techniques once or twice keeps things interesting, but to drag them into every battle is redundant and monotonous at best. Might as well lump them into the same category as Babidi / Bibidi --a powerless wizard who only relies on magic.

When characters close in power are pitted against each other, the most practical assumption is that the original poster is seeking a strength-based discussion.
I don't think I am. Anticlimactic or not, those abilities do exist and those characters are capable of doing them. If the original poster doesn't want such an ability used and wants to know who's stronger, they'll usually specify (no candy beam) or something. Additionally, characters capable of this kind of attack have been known to fail (Dabura's stone spit can be dodged, and can be 'deflected' on to other items, and Buu's candy beam has been dodged, reflected by blowing and all but no-sold, on separate occasions).

It's like...let's assume that Dabura is somehow equal to SSJ2 Goku (he isn't I know but bear with me) and their fight is all but even. You might say "Dabura would win disappointingly easily if he used his stone spit, it'd be anticlimactic!" But if Goku turned SSJ3 and took him out in one casual hit, isn't that exactly as easy? Both are techniques that enable an easy victory if properly used (hell, the stone spit is arguably less automatic since it can be avoided, whereas you can't "dodge" Goku using SSJ3 on you especially since he's now much faster). The fact that one doesn't hinge on one's ki/power level doesn't make it any less valid, and frankly all fights being determined solely on the purpose of who has the bigger number seems like the less interesting alternative to me.

(Also, Babidi/Bibidi are hardly the same, and indeed are hardly invincible. Both Buu and Piccolo took out Babidi easily enough due to how fast/powerful they were.)
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Doctor. » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:18 pm

Beerus with Kaioken x2 vs Whis

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:22 pm

Doctor. wrote:Beerus with Kaioken x2 vs Whis
The gap would be the same as KKx3 Goku vs. 18k Vegeta, Beers would win easily.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by LightBing » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:53 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
Doctor. wrote:Beerus with Kaioken x2 vs Whis
The gap would be the same as KKx3 Goku vs. 18k Vegeta, Beers would win easily.
Agreed. Even if the gap was smaller, Whis must be Beerus teacher for reasons other than being stronger.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Captain Space » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:48 am

Doctor. wrote:Beerus with Kaioken x2 vs Whis
Beerus should be able to win; a Kaioken x2 shouldn't be too hard to maintain for a master martial artist like him.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by LonelyShadow » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:36 am

KentalSSJ6 wrote:Golden Freeza VS Super Yi Xing Long.
Super Mega Awesome Amazing Dragon Ball Final Boss Monster should win, he might be something very close to Beerus at 100%, also, he has regeneration and nothing like stamina problems.

Noah wrote:New matches:

- Base Goku (EoZ) x Base Vegeta (EoZ)
- Base Vegeta (RoF) x Ultimate Gohan (Boo Arc)
- Golden Freeza x SSJG Goku (BoG)
- King Vegeta x Bardock
- Krillin (RoF) x First Form Freeza (Namek Arc)
- Mutenroshi (RoF) x Nappa
- SSJ3 Goku (GT) x Super Janemba and Hirudegarn
- Tenshinhan (RoF) x First Form Freeza (Namek Arc)
Goku, because Toriyama.
Vegeta, very easily.
Golden Freeza with no difficulties.
King Vegeta.
Krillin, I guess? I never understood how did they became so strong.
Roshi bashes his stick or whatever in Nappa's head.
If the SSJ3 actually works for kid Goku, he should win.
Again, I guess Tenshinhan wins?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Captain Space » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:44 am

LonelyShadow wrote: Krillin, I guess? I never understood how did they became so strong.
I'd assume a combination of Guru's power-unlock (for Krillin)/Kaio's training (Tenshinhan and Yamcha) and the three years spent training for the androids (considering that the last time they spent a long time preparing for a serious threat was the saiyans and they improved massively during that time, and this was three times longer...) made them all pretty heavy hitters by Namek-arc standards.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Khin » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:07 am

1: Goku(BOZ) vs. Piccolo(BOZ)
2: Yamcha(Saiyan Saga) vs. Raditz vs. Saibama(No Suicide)
3: Tenshinhan(FNF) vs. Krillin(FNF)
4: Enraged SSGSS Vegeta(Permanent) vs. 100% Beerus
5: SSJ3 Raditz vs. 1rst Form Freeza(Pre Training)
6: Mystic Freeza vs. Whis,Beerus,SSGSS Goku and SSGSS Vegeta
7: Piccolo(Cell Games) with Kaioken x10 vs. Super Perfect Cell
8: Good Buu vs. Grey Buu vs. Fat Buu vs. Super Buu vs. Buff Buu vs. Buucolo vs. Buutenks vs. Buuhan vs. Kid Buu
9: Future Trunks(Mecha Freeza Saga) and Yardrat Goku vs. Future Android 17 and 18
10: Super Saiyan God Goku(GT) vs. SSJ4 Gogeta

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:57 am

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote: 1: Goku(BOZ) vs. Piccolo(BOZ)
2: Yamcha(Saiyan Saga) vs. Raditz vs. Saibama(No Suicide)
3: Tenshinhan(FNF) vs. Krillin(FNF)
4: Enraged SSGSS Vegeta(Permanent) vs. 100% Beerus
5: SSJ3 Raditz vs. 1rst Form Freeza(Pre Training)
6: Mystic Freeza vs. Whis,Beerus,SSGSS Goku and SSGSS Vegeta
7: Piccolo(Cell Games) with Kaioken x10 vs. Super Perfect Cell
8: Good Buu vs. Grey Buu vs. Fat Buu vs. Super Buu vs. Buff Buu vs. Buucolo vs. Buutenks vs. Buuhan vs. Kid Buu
9: Future Trunks(Mecha Freeza Saga) and Yardrat Goku vs. Future Android 17 and 18
10: Super Saiyan God Goku(GT) vs. SSJ4 Gogeta
- Close fight. I'd give this to Goku as he is the more tactical and refined fighter
- I'm backing Raditz. Yamcha is an idiot in combat and Raditz will take advantage of that and kill him and the Saibaman.
- Krillin, no question.
- Vegeta takes this. The rage boost that Vegeta got in Super was enormous. I'd say it made him at least 10x stronger.
- SSJ3 Raditz with mild difficulty
- Mystic Freeza is basically Golden Freeza, so he gets stomped
- Piccolo stomps
- Buuhan crushes all of his competition effortlessly
- #17 and #18 kick Goku and Trunks' butt very badly
- SSJ4 Gogeta wins with little difficulty

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by singsing » Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:22 am

- Mystic Freeza is basically Golden Freeza, so he gets stomped
Wouldn't Mystic Freeza be way stronger than Golden? It brings a user ~faaaaaaaar~ beyond their limits, not their limits.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Captain Space » Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:42 am

singsing wrote:
- Mystic Freeza is basically Golden Freeza, so he gets stomped
Wouldn't Mystic Freeza be way stronger than Golden? It brings a user ~faaaaaaaar~ beyond their limits, not their limits.
Interesting question. I'd honestly imagine that the mystic thing would bring Freeza to (and beyond) the level his original white/purple 'final form' was in RF--i.e. that would be considered his potential/limits in that sense. His golden form would be something else entirely. Though maybe Mystic taking him beyond said limits would bring him up to a similar level to the boost his golden form gave him...I dunno. My guess would be at minimum, a bit stronger than his RF 'final' form, and at maximum, about equal to his golden form.
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote: 1: Goku(BOZ) vs. Piccolo(BOZ)
2: Yamcha(Saiyan Saga) vs. Raditz vs. Saibama(No Suicide)
3: Tenshinhan(FNF) vs. Krillin(FNF)
4: Enraged SSGSS Vegeta(Permanent) vs. 100% Beerus
5: SSJ3 Raditz vs. 1rst Form Freeza(Pre Training)
6: Mystic Freeza vs. Whis,Beerus,SSGSS Goku and SSGSS Vegeta
7: Piccolo(Cell Games) with Kaioken x10 vs. Super Perfect Cell
8: Good Buu vs. Grey Buu vs. Fat Buu vs. Super Buu vs. Buff Buu vs. Buucolo vs. Buutenks vs. Buuhan vs. Kid Buu
9: Future Trunks(Mecha Freeza Saga) and Yardrat Goku vs. Future Android 17 and 18
10: Super Saiyan God Goku(GT) vs. SSJ4 Gogeta
1. I see this playing out similar to how their match at the 23rd Budokai did, only: Piccolo won't bother growing giant since it won't help all that much (especially with Goku not having to worry about ring-outs); Goku won't fall for the fake-out knock-out; and Piccolo almost certainly won't get enough free time for a Makankosappo. Apply all that the 23rd fight, and you get a fairly solid win for Goku.
2. Yamcha > Raditz >= Saibaman
3. Apparently Krillin is stronger by the Buu saga despite being semi-retired, and he seems to be back in practice as of the JSAT special, so definitely Krillin.
4. Depends if whatever that rage power is, is applied on top of Vegeta's god-power, or if that's just part of his existing potential that's already incorporated into how strong SSJG would've made him. If the former, Vegeta, if the latter, Beerus.
5. If Raditz is inexperienced with SSJ3, and given that he probably has a lot less of an energy supply to draw from than Goku did...he'll probably tire out way before he beats Freeza unless his power advantage is in one-shot territory, which I don't think that it is.
6. As indicated above, I think Mystic Freeza would at best be on par with Golden Freeza if not somewhat weaker, so Freeza loses horribly.
7. Even being extremely generous with Cell's power-ups, I'm not sure if SPC is even all that much more than 10x pre-RoSaT Piccolo. CG Piccolo x10 can probably win pretty easy.
8. Buuhan (unless you think that any Kaioshin > Mystic Gohan and c'mon, no).
9. Trunks got his ass handed to him by them, but it was both of them, and Goku was a good bit stronger than him...hum...50/50?
10. Given that I'm of the opinion, personally, that BoG SSJG Goku beats SSJ4 Gogeta, you know I'm gonna say Godku here.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ahill1 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:01 pm

Chi Chi(23rd budokai) vs Roshi(Boz)
Nail vs Recoome
Piccolo(trunks arc) vs Goku base(vs freeza)
Vegeta(uub arc - 10 years after goku vs buu) vs Kid Buu

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by nickzambuto » Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:26 pm

Mystic Freeza should be substantially stronger than just regular Golden Freeza. Think about it, what's more powerful, a hypothetical Super Saiyan 3 Gohan, or the Mystic Gohan that we know? Old Kai's powerup removes the barrier of transformations, meaning Freeza would get all of his Golden power in his first form, which is the easiest to maintain, meaning he would have no stamina issues, and since Freeza likely didn't reach his exact potential limit in only four months of training, he probably has even more potential than his Golden form brought out. Finally, the Old Kai powerup brings you BEYOND your limits, not exactly TO them, so all in all I have to imagine Freeza has the potential to surpass Beerus the Destroyer. Although for Freeza the ritual would probably take like, a week straight. Freeza's downfall is that he wouldn't have the patience or humility to sit there for that long and stare at Old Kai sleeping and reading girly magazines (even the gentle Gohan nearly quit with how irritating Old Kai is) so Freeza would probably never reach his full potential.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Captain Space » Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:38 pm

nickzambuto wrote:Mystic Freeza should be substantially stronger than just regular Golden Freeza. Think about it, what's more powerful, a hypothetical Super Saiyan 3 Gohan, or the Mystic Gohan that we know? Old Kai's powerup removes the barrier of transformations, meaning Freeza would get all of his Golden power in his first form, which is the easiest to maintain, meaning he would have no stamina issues, and since Freeza likely didn't reach his exact potential limit in only four months of training, he probably has even more potential than his Golden form brought out. Finally, the Old Kai powerup brings you BEYOND your limits, not exactly TO them, so all in all I have to imagine Freeza has the potential to surpass Beerus the Destroyer. Although for Freeza the ritual would probably take like, a week straight. Freeza's downfall is that he wouldn't have the patience or humility to sit there for that long and stare at Old Kai sleeping and reading girly magazines (even the gentle Gohan nearly quit with how irritating Old Kai is) so Freeza would probably never reach his full potential.
Hmm, yeah, I probably didn't put enough thought into this.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:10 pm

How would Videl at her best fare against the flat-chested cherry blossom at part I?



BONUS SCENARIO : If Sakura loses have her part II self fight.

BONUS SCENARIO #2: If either Sakura wins have her fight Ranfan

BONUS SCENARIO #3: If Sakura wins against Ranfan have her fight Chi-Chi

BONUS SCENARIO #4: If Sakura wins against Chi-Chi have her fight Selypa (Fasha)

BONUS SCENARIO #5: If Sakura wins against Selypa have her fight #18 (Lazuli)
close
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by LonelyShadow » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:40 pm

Captain Space wrote:
LonelyShadow wrote: Krillin, I guess? I never understood how did they became so strong.
I'd assume a combination of Guru's power-unlock (for Krillin)/Kaio's training (Tenshinhan and Yamcha) and the three years spent training for the androids (considering that the last time they spent a long time preparing for a serious threat was the saiyans and they improved massively during that time, and this was three times longer...) made them all pretty heavy hitters by Namek-arc standards.
I understand, but Krillin was horrified by the Ginyu force, even if he trained for 3 years I don't see why he was so strong. I don't even think that Goku's training with Piccolo and Gohan gave him such results like Krillin's, Also, I never understood why, apparently, Krillin is superior to Tenshinhan, I don't know if it's true, but I read it many times.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Doctor. » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:45 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:How would Videl at her best fare against the flat-chested cherry blossom at part I?



BONUS SCENARIO : If Sakura loses have her part II self fight.

BONUS SCENARIO #2: If either Sakura wins have her fight Ranfan

BONUS SCENARIO #3: If Sakura wins against Ranfan have her fight Chi-Chi

BONUS SCENARIO #4: If Sakura wins against Chi-Chi have her fight Selypa (Selypa)

BONUS SCENARIO #5: If Sakura wins against Selypa have her fight #18 (Lazuli)
close
Sakura is a skilled ninja but Videl is stronger than Mr. Satan, the world champion, and can fly. I'd give it to Videl.
That's a stomp in Sakura's favor.
Part 2 Sakura still wins against Ranfan, I don't think Ranfan is even stronger than Videl.
She wins against Chi-Chi too, she got a hit on Kaguya.
She loses against everyone else in a massive stomp.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by supercat » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:47 pm

Captain Space wrote:
supercat wrote:
You're missing the point. Let's assume half of these hypothetical fights actually came to fruition. Do you realize just how anticlimactic it would be if multiple characters were uneventfully reduced to a statue or a piece of candy on a regular basis? Resorting to such techniques once or twice keeps things interesting, but to drag them into every battle is redundant and monotonous at best. Might as well lump them into the same category as Babidi / Bibidi --a powerless wizard who only relies on magic.

When characters close in power are pitted against each other, the most practical assumption is that the original poster is seeking a strength-based discussion.
I don't think I am. Anticlimactic or not, those abilities do exist and those characters are capable of doing them. If the original poster doesn't want such an ability used and wants to know who's stronger, they'll usually specify (no candy beam) or something. Additionally, characters capable of this kind of attack have been known to fail (Dabura's stone spit can be dodged, and can be 'deflected' on to other items, and Buu's candy beam has been dodged, reflected by blowing and all but no-sold, on separate occasions).

It's like...let's assume that Dabura is somehow equal to SSJ2 Goku (he isn't I know but bear with me) and their fight is all but even. You might say "Dabura would win disappointingly easily if he used his stone spit, it'd be anticlimactic!" But if Goku turned SSJ3 and took him out in one casual hit, isn't that exactly as easy? Both are techniques that enable an easy victory if properly used (hell, the stone spit is arguably less automatic since it can be avoided, whereas you can't "dodge" Goku using SSJ3 on you especially since he's now much faster). The fact that one doesn't hinge on one's ki/power level doesn't make it any less valid, and frankly all fights being determined solely on the purpose of who has the bigger number seems like the less interesting alternative to me.

(Also, Babidi/Bibidi are hardly the same, and indeed are hardly invincible. Both Buu and Piccolo took out Babidi easily enough due to how fast/powerful they were.)
Barring individual preferences and such, I'm sure you can still acknowledge the fact that one-sided stomps can prove to be rather entertaining. Personally, I'm in favor of feasting my eyes on a fighter snagging an easy victory via one hit over watching someone win solely because of their ability to induce metamorphosis. Something about the latter just doesn't seem to pique my interest. Perhaps I'm just not a fan of battles that are heavily saturated with comic relief (Candy Beam).

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:52 pm

Noah wrote: New matches:

- Base Goku (EoZ) x Base Vegeta (EoZ)
- Base Vegeta (RoF) x Ultimate Gohan (Boo Arc)
- Golden Freeza x SSJG Goku (BoG)
- King Vegeta x Bardock
- Krillin (RoF) x First Form Freeza (Namek Arc)
- Mutenroshi (RoF) x Nappa
- Tenshinhan (RoF) x First Form Freeza (Namek Arc)
Impossible to know at this point.
Vegeta finger flicks.
Freeza completely dominates.
King Vegeta finger flicks.
This is a good match. I have Kuririn at this point at 540,000. Due to skill he wins after a long fight.
Nappa rapes.
Freeza wins with mild difficulty.
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote: 1: Goku(BOZ) vs. Piccolo(BOZ)
2: Yamcha(Saiyan Saga) vs. Raditz vs. Saibama(No Suicide)
3: Tenshinhan(FNF) vs. Krillin(FNF)
4: Enraged SSGSS Vegeta(Permanent) vs. 100% Beerus
5: SSJ3 Raditz vs. 1rst Form Freeza(Pre Training)
6: Mystic Freeza vs. Whis,Beerus,SSGSS Goku and SSGSS Vegeta
7: Piccolo(Cell Games) with Kaioken x10 vs. Super Perfect Cell
8: Good Buu vs. Grey Buu vs. Fat Buu vs. Super Buu vs. Buff Buu vs. Buucolo vs. Buutenks vs. Buuhan vs. Kid Buu
9: Future Trunks(Mecha Freeza Saga) and Yardrat Goku vs. Future Android 17 and 18
Goku because Goku.
Raditz is the strongest but Yamcha should have this going by skill.
Kuririn dominates.
Beerus gets violated.
Raditz reaches 600,000 and dominates Freeza.
Team B wins.
Piccolo finger flicks.
Buuhan wins by outsmarting everyone.
The Androids win.
ahill1 wrote:Chi Chi(23rd budokai) vs Roshi(Boz)
Nail vs Recoome
Piccolo(trunks arc) vs Goku base(vs freeza)
Vegeta(uub arc - 10 years after goku vs buu) vs Kid Buu
They are rivals but Roshi wins by skill.
Exact equals. I give this to Nail.
Piccolo still losses.
Vegeta finger flicks.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by nickzambuto » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:18 pm

LonelyShadow wrote:
Captain Space wrote:
LonelyShadow wrote: Krillin, I guess? I never understood how did they became so strong.
I'd assume a combination of Guru's power-unlock (for Krillin)/Kaio's training (Tenshinhan and Yamcha) and the three years spent training for the androids (considering that the last time they spent a long time preparing for a serious threat was the saiyans and they improved massively during that time, and this was three times longer...) made them all pretty heavy hitters by Namek-arc standards.
I understand, but Krillin was horrified by the Ginyu force, even if he trained for 3 years I don't see why he was so strong. I don't even think that Goku's training with Piccolo and Gohan gave him such results like Krillin's, Also, I never understood why, apparently, Krillin is superior to Tenshinhan, I don't know if it's true, but I read it many times.
Krillin was also horrified by Raditz but left him in the dust after only one year of training.

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