Kid Goku GT vs. SSGSS Goku?

[Darkprince410]

Oops sorry,so yeah i admit that you're right but what does it prove exactly ? Goku excluded himself from the statement but he didn't for Baby Vegeta who was much stronger than him at the time,the context is not the same because Janemba was clearly weaker than Goku in the movie which wasn't the case for Baby Vegeta who was fooling around against him and still beat him in a few hits at the end.

It opens the precedence that he's stating that about what he's sensed from others, not necessarily himself. Since Vegetto was an extension of himself (seeing as how it was a fusion of he and Vegeta), when he said that about Bebi Vegeta, he was excluding Vegetto because he never actually sensed Vegetto. Yes, he's been shown making estimates and rough gauging of his strength before (and, as a result, could have done the same with Vegetto), but he's never made an indication that he could actually tell exactly how strong he was.

[Mycophobia]

You made a good point,so i think that it mainly depends to your interpretations and your way of seeing things about Goku's claims imo.
Is there any characters except Goku that say the same thing about Baby Vegeta being the strongest being that ever existed in the universe ?

[Mycophobia]

Oops sorry,so yeah i admit that you're right but what does it prove exactly ? Goku excluded himself from the statement but he didn't for Baby Vegeta who was much stronger than him at the time,the context is not the same because Janemba was clearly weaker than Goku in the movie which wasn't the case for Baby Vegeta who was fooling around against him and still beat him in a few hits at the end.

It opens the precedence that he's stating that about what he's sensed from others, not necessarily himself. Since Vegetto was an extension of himself (seeing as how it was a fusion of he and Vegeta), when he said that about Bebi Vegeta, he was excluding Vegetto because he never actually sensed Vegetto. Yes, he's been shown making estimates and rough gauging of his strength before (and, as a result, could have done the same with Vegetto), but he's never made an indication that he could actually tell exactly how strong he was.

Not exactly,in the anime Vegeto and Buuhan were shown to be absolutely equal,when he transforms into a SSJ he takes the advantage and Buuhan is completely outclassed from this moment,we all know that the SSJ attributes a x50 boost so i think that Goku should be able to judge exactly the power of Vegetto SSJ.

[Hitiro]

You made a good point,so i think that it mainly depends to your interpretations and your way of seeing things about Goku's claims imo.
Is there any characters except Goku that say the same thing about Baby Vegeta being the strongest being that ever existed in the universe ?

Goku never really says Bebi Vegeta is the strongest being that ever existed in the universe. Goku's only claim is that Bebi Vegeta's Ki is the strongest he's ever felt. Doesn't necessarily make him the strongest being that ever existed in the universe. That could still be Vegetto's title. Bebi Vegeta claims that he now has the strongest Saiya power. But that also doesn't need to suggest Vegetto is included in the statement because A) It is probable that Vegeta couldn't sense his own Ki as Vegetto. B) This statement could just be just about the current tense. Currently Vegetto doesn't exist so it is obvious that Bebi Vegeta's Saiya power is currently the strongest. Such as being called the strongest heavyweight boxer in the world doesn't necessarily mean to suggest there weren't stronger heavyweight boxers decades ago. It just means you are currently the strongest heavyweight boxer.

Not exactly,in the anime Vegeto and Buuhan were shown to be absolutely equal,when he transforms into a SSJ he takes the advantage and Buuhan is completely outclassed from this moment,we all know that the SSJ attributes a x50 boost so i think that Goku should be able to judge exactly the power of Vegetto SSJ.

Judging their own fighting ability and sensing Ki are two different things though. While Goku/Vegeta may not be able to sense their Ki as Vegetto they could still judge where their power sits through other methods such as discerning whether the opponents movement is something they can track/handle or using others as a pegging to judge how much stronger others are. Like Goku does earlier in the Boo arc where he uses Cell as peg to judge where Dabura sits in terms of power through just movement.

[Darkprince410]

Not exactly,in the anime Vegeto and Buuhan were shown to be absolutely equal,when he transforms into a SSJ he takes the advantage and Buuhan is completely outclassed from this moment,we all know that the SSJ attributes a x50 boost so i think that Goku should be able to judge exactly the power of Vegetto SSJ.

Vegetto says otherwise. Soon after he beats Buu around a bit, he makes this comment.

Vegetto: “…Well, don’t feel too bad. Even I’m surprised. To think that I’d be able to make this big a fool out of you.”

Even Vegetto couldn't gauge how much stronger he'd end up becoming, and, as a result, how big a fool he could make Gohan Buu by how big a gap in their power they had. If he could gauge exactly how powerful Vegetto would be, then he shouldn't be surprised at all.

[Pocket-God]

GT Goku stomps

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Vegetto says otherwise. Soon after he beats Buu around a bit, he makes this comment.

Vegetto: “…Well, don’t feel too bad. Even I’m surprised. To think that I’d be able to make this big a fool out of you.”

Even Vegetto couldn't gauge how much stronger he'd end up becoming, and, as a result, how big a fool he could make Gohan Buu by how big a gap in their power they had. If he could gauge exactly how powerful Vegetto would be, then he shouldn't be surprised at all.

Just sounds like him being surprised by how powerful the results using the potara were. I don't see why that statement necessitates him being completely oblivious to his own power.

[Berserker1921]

GT Goku stomps

I think kid Goku was over powered. But if memory serves he was as powerful as ssj3 form from dbz Buu saga in his base. And when he became ssj4 he was barley stronger then ssj Vegito initially. Goku from RoF is much much stronger then that. Even in his base form now he is more or less ssjgod Goku level of power. Now with Super; when Vegeta had his rage boost. He was 10% of Beerus power. So Vegeta after that boost he was stronger then Goku. Now imagine the immense powers boost from getting God form.

Kid Goku has no chance.

[Pocket-God]

GT Goku stomps

I think kid Goku was over powered. But if memory serves he was as powerful as ssj3 form from dbz Buu saga in his base. And when he became ssj4 he was barley stronger then ssj Vegito initially. Goku from RoF is much much stronger then that. Even in his base form now he is more or less ssjgod Goku level of power. Now with Super; when Vegeta had his rage boost. He was 10% of Beerus power. So Vegeta after that boost he was stronger then Goku. Now imagine the immense powers boost from getting God form.

Kid Goku has no chance.

But shouldn't GT Goku SSJ2 = Beerus?

[Darkprince410]

But shouldn't GT Goku SSJ2 = Beerus?

Why would that be the case at all?

[Pocket-God]

But shouldn't GT Goku SSJ2 = Beerus?

Why would that be the case at all?

GT Goku Base = Z Goku SSJ3 right?
A lot of people say that Z Goku SSJ3 = 1% Beerus
so GT Goku Base = 1% Beerus
that would mean
GT Goku SSJ = 50% Beerus
GT Goku SSJ2 = 100% Beerus

or am i completely wrong?

[Sora Saiyan]

It depends, there's no way to know for sure. We've had rage Vegeta which seems to have surpassed SSJ Vegetto. Goku might've gotten stronger in DBS, but as it stands for me Beerus has ended up being thousands of times stronger than Z SSJ3 Goku.

Here's my list.

Spoiler:

Whis - 150,000
Beerus - 100,000
Godku - 60,000
Vegetto SSJ3 - 12,000 (This truly fits with Goku not thinking a world like SSJG could exist.)
Beerus 10% - 10,000
Vegetto SSJ2 - 3,000
Vegeta rage - 3,000
Vegetto SSJ - 1,500
Chou Gohan - 48 (1.5x stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks.)
SSJ3 Gotenks - 32
Base Vegetto - 30
SSJ Gotenks - 4 (1.5 x stronger than SSJ3 Goku)
SSJ3 Goku Z - 2.6

The power levels of the characters that appeared in the Boo arc I have left at what I've always believed them to be at. Yes, this list looks ridiculous, but it's only because the Boo arc had crazy power levels which this has taken to a whole new level. Because of the power levels looking to ridiculous I've had to drop base Vegetto to a bit more than half of Gohan, and I used to have him equal, but then rage Vegeta happened. I'm just glad that I don't have base Gotenks equal to SSJ3 Goku.

[Low Tone G]

It depends, there's no way to know for sure. We've had rage Vegeta which seems to have surpassed SSJ Vegetto. Goku might've gotten stronger in DBS, but as it stands for me Beerus has ended up being thousands of times stronger than Z SSJ3 Goku.

Here's my list.

Spoiler:

Whis - 150,000
Beerus - 100,000
Godku - 60,000
Vegetto SSJ3 - 12,000 (This truly fits with Goku not thinking a world like SSJG could exist.)
Beerus 10% - 10,000
Vegetto SSJ2 - 3,000
Vegeta rage - 3,000
Vegetto SSJ - 1,500
Chou Gohan - 48 (1.5x stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks.)
SSJ3 Gotenks - 32
Base Vegetto - 30
SSJ Gotenks - 4 (1.5 x stronger than SSJ3 Goku)
SSJ3 Goku Z - 2.6

The power levels of the characters that appeared in the Boo arc I have left at what I've always believed them to be at. Yes, this list looks ridiculous, but it's only because the Boo arc had crazy power levels which this has taken to a whole new level. Because of the power levels looking to ridiculous I've had to drop base Vegetto to a bit more than half of Gohan, and I used to have him equal, but then rage Vegeta happened. I'm just glad that I don't have base Gotenks equal to SSJ3 Goku.

Really, people, really? Should we think that Vegeta could surpass Vegetto when Vegetto contains him? I can accept to surpass Base Vegetto, but Super Vegetto?

[Lord Beerus]

But shouldn't GT Goku SSJ2 = Beerus?

Why would that be the case at all?

GT Goku Base = Z Goku SSJ3 right?
A lot of people say that Z Goku SSJ3 = 1% Beerus
so GT Goku Base = 1% Beerus
that would mean
GT Goku SSJ = 50% Beerus
GT Goku SSJ2 = 100% Beerus

or am i completely wrong?

On what basis is there to support that GT Goku in his base form is as strong as SSJ3 Goku from Z?

[Doctor.]

A lot of people say that Z Goku SSJ3 = 1% Beerus

A lot of people =/= fact. We only know rage Vegeta is somewhere close to 10% of Beerus. SS3 Goku could be 0.0001% for all we know.

[Lord Beerus]

It depends, there's no way to know for sure. We've had rage Vegeta which seems to have surpassed SSJ Vegetto. Goku might've gotten stronger in DBS, but as it stands for me Beerus has ended up being thousands of times stronger than Z SSJ3 Goku.

Here's my list.

Spoiler:

Whis - 150,000
Beerus - 100,000
Godku - 60,000
Vegetto SSJ3 - 12,000 (This truly fits with Goku not thinking a world like SSJG could exist.)
Beerus 10% - 10,000
Vegetto SSJ2 - 3,000
Vegeta rage - 3,000
Vegetto SSJ - 1,500
Chou Gohan - 48 (1.5x stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks.)
SSJ3 Gotenks - 32
Base Vegetto - 30
SSJ Gotenks - 4 (1.5 x stronger than SSJ3 Goku)
SSJ3 Goku Z - 2.6

The power levels of the characters that appeared in the Boo arc I have left at what I've always believed them to be at. Yes, this list looks ridiculous, but it's only because the Boo arc had crazy power levels which this has taken to a whole new level. Because of the power levels looking to ridiculous I've had to drop base Vegetto to a bit more than half of Gohan, and I used to have him equal, but then rage Vegeta happened. I'm just glad that I don't have base Gotenks equal to SSJ3 Goku.

Really, people, really? Should we think that Vegeta could surpass Vegetto when Vegetto contains him? I can accept to surpass Base Vegetto, but Super Vegetto?

It kinda is logical though. Beerus used way less that 1% when he stomped SSJ3 Goku in both BOG and Super. And it was from that power that Goku felt Beerus was using that he concluded that Fusion, both Fusion Dance and Potara, wouldn't be enough to defeat Beerus at the power that he was using. Which was way less than 1%. Then SSJ2 Rageta takes on Beerus and Beerus has to very near to 10% of power to tank of Vegeta's assault. That would place way above Vegetto and Super Vegetto, considering Goku would know how strong SSJ Vegetto would be, if he thought Vegetto would stand no chance against Beerus at least than 1%.

[GTX]

But shouldn't GT Goku SSJ2 = Beerus?

Why would that be the case at all?

GT Goku Base = Z Goku SSJ3 right?
A lot of people say that Z Goku SSJ3 = 1% Beerus
so GT Goku Base = 1% Beerus
that would mean
GT Goku SSJ = 50% Beerus
GT Goku SSJ2 = 100% Beerus

or am i completely wrong?


On what basis is there to support that GT Goku in his base form is as strong as SSJ3 Goku from Z?

Super vegeto cannot be stronger than goku because it's stated by goku in the gt's anime that 2nd form of baby was the strongest ki he had ever felt.

Power
Though General Rilldo uses his first form to hide his true power; Goku remarks Rilldo is even stronger than Buu. Rilldo's true abilities lie in his transformations: he can transform twice, each time slowly showing off his true power. In his second form, he seemed to be just as powerful as Goku's Super Saiyan form in Dragon Ball GT, but later is demonstrated that Goku was merely toying with him. In his final form, he is a lot stronger and his full power is shown to make him much closer in power to Super Saiyan Goku

[Saiyan007]

Like i said before scaling GT characters to canon characters is a mistake.

Beerus has better speed feats than anyone in GT which hilariously outclasses them.You can't scale off of canon characters when GT is in it's own alternate timeline

[Darkprince410]

GT Goku Base = Z Goku SSJ3 right?
A lot of people say that Z Goku SSJ3 = 1% Beerus
so GT Goku Base = 1% Beerus
that would mean
GT Goku SSJ = 50% Beerus
GT Goku SSJ2 = 100% Beerus

or am i completely wrong?

There's absolutely no mention or even hint as to how much power Beerus was using against Goku when the two fought. The only information we know is that Beerus was using less than 10%, since Beerus indicated that an enraged Ssj2 Vegeta was the first person to ever force him to use that much power in a battle before. For all we know, Beerus could have been using 0.1% of his power against Ssj3 Goku, if even that. The percentage of power he used in fighting Goku was never, ever stated or suggested.

Super vegeto cannot be stronger than goku because it's stated by goku in the gt's anime that 2nd form of baby was the strongest ki he had ever felt.

If you check earlier in this thread though, there's precedence in other Toei work that Goku doesn't necessarily include power that he himself is part of. Since he was part of Vegetto at the time, that power was part of him, and not something he was sensing from another being.

[GTX]

If you check earlier in this thread though, there's precedence in other Toei work that Goku doesn't necessarily include power that he himself is part of. Since he was part of Vegetto at the time, that power was part of him, and not something he was sensing from another being

No he's including himself because his ki can be sensed/ or felt by himself too that's the reason they can control it for many usage. Gohan can can create his ki to create proppeller by using his ki for flying, vegetto to move object and many other things.
Songoku can also feel his ki or his power getting stronger too .