Shisami's power level

[predazunn]

Team four star has no authority or influence on the current material.

a) Roshi fought weaker opponents just like Jaco and was clearly the weakest amongst the group.
b) Off guard attacks have been shown to affect greatly stronger opponents. Whiss also warned Goku about this, so it has an in-universe explanation.
c) Yet you conform to Base Gotenks Post surpassing Super Saiyan Gotenks Pre. The rage boost is no longer exclusive to Gohan or Oob.

All it takes is 5 minutes of thinking to make logical sense of every scenario.

Wow.

How do I explain this? Well I know where you're coming from but at this point it's futile. I mean let's say you and I are stranded in the middle of the ocean on a boat about half naked the both of us. This boat is conveniently named 'PLOT'. The waves have been crashing against this thing for quite a while and a few cracks have formed. We didn't fret we just cut some of our pubes and stuffed it down those cracks. At one point though a huge wave just crushed the boat and reduced it to driftwood. Now what's happening here is that I'm trying to swim off a piece of driftwood and you're flailing in the ocean trying to cement all the parts with your pubes!

I'm not trying to sound arrogant if that's how this is coming off, just a bit of banter really. Because there's no WAY that you are believing your own bullshit, I used to do that too but dragonball has just gone too far at this point. For one you say that Roshi fought weaker opponents, what evidence is there for your claim? Did ALL the weaker ones just happen to charge Roshi? Wow convenient and they must all have been with a PL on par with farmer w/shotgun because if they had been a PL of 60 he wouldn't have lasted as long as he did if we go by the Goku/Piccolo vs Raditz fight. I'll give you the off guard point, there has been a precedent for it in-universe such as the deflected spirit bomb at vegeta and yajirobe cutting off his tail. But rage boosts? Tell me when Vegeta went into a rage against Cell because he killed Trunks did he surpass SSj2 Gohan? Did Goku's rage at Krillin's death help him against Tambourine? No. Rage was always Gohan's thing it also happened once for Goku and Vegeta as a trigger to going SSj but if we use that analogy then Vegeta's rage should have taken him to SSj3, otherwise it's just as ridiculous as saying enraged base Goku beats SSj Vegeta.

I'm not even scratching the surface; there are inconsistencies everywhere that can only be explained by PIS. Tails magically growing, zenkais appearing then no longer being relevant, Buu being buu, Shenron and the rules around his wishes changing as long as it fits the plot, the humans gaining more from Korin and Kami's training than Goku did just so they can stay relevant to the plot, Gohan having his potential unlocked multiple times, Goten and Trunks going SSj without rage boosts (I know there's a SSj gene theory but it's still just a fan theory so another plothole). There's more and more and more some that I probably don't know about.

Face it guys, Toriyama and his editors make up the plot as they go along. In conclusion I know it was a wonderful boat but screw it man why not just face the fact that it's drowning beneath the ocean? Why not just accept the fact that real logic doesn't apply to the dbz universe? It's not meant to be taken so seriously

HOWEVER if you really want me to play along.

Theory 1: Piccolo absorbed Nail and Kami in bad states. One was dying and the other was suffering from old age. We can observe that he has been regressing since the Buu sga, so Nail and Kami were dying inside him so to speak, killing the effects of the fusions. Where would Piccolos PL be without those fusions? Could be said to be roughly around Zarbon/Dodoria's level. I hate this theory it turns Piccolo into fodder.

Theory 2: As someone mentioned he was worn out from fighting the other minions.

Theory 3: Piccolo was holding back so that he could save up the bulk of his ki for Frieza, this makes sense because after all he didn't know Frieza had improved and he might have thought that being a super namek he would eventually take him on. It might also explain Krillin and Tien's performances, they could have been holding back to help against Frieza. Gohan was also holding back but the depth of his power was so great that even when holding that much back it was easy to him.


Oh and I was obviously kidding when referencing DBZA Vegeta.

[Lord Beerus]

I just believe that Shisami was as strong as Kamicollo from the get-go. I just really hope Super clears up the issue and show Freeza and his army training.

[h0kuten]

The only reason he adheres to the idea is because it happened. 5 years ago nobody believed Frieza would train, and most believed he maxed out at 120,000,000.

Silly humans.

[dbzfan7]

I myself abide by the explanation that everyone besides Goku and Vegeta were nerfed down to below 1,300,000.

I also believe in this theory as the creative team doesn't really care about power level consistency, and probably thought that number was actually considered big at this point. It also fits well with the stat trinity of importance.

[irreality]

I just believe that Shisami was a strong as Kamicollo from the get-go.

Yup, I assumed that the comment about Zarbon and Dodoria meant they were of similar rank in the org (i.e. right hand men) not similar power level. I figured he was a lot stronger than them.

They've had to keep the whole empire in check without Freeza or Cold, so they probably had to train and get stronger just to keep things up. They still wanted the authority, fear and brute power the name Freeza conveys, though, since it would bring unity to the whole thing and keep them from scrambling every time a planet tries to revolt.

[Doctor.]

The thing is that if Shisami was as strong as Piccolo in the first place, then reviving Freeza becomes a bit pointless and stupid doesn't it? The movie greatly implies that they need Freeza because he's powerful and he'd be able to win the losing battles the empire is facing. Freeza doesn't have any other qualities besides his power where a revival would be necessary.

[Polyphase Avatron]

The only reason he adheres to the idea is because it happened. 5 years ago nobody believed Freeza would train, and most believed he maxed out at 120,000,000.

Silly humans.

My fanon power levels always had Mecha Freeza at 135,000,000.

[supercat]

Barring obvious out-of-universe explanations (power levels weren't taken into consideration), I'm apt to lean towards the notion that Shisami participated in some strenuous training prior to his face-off with Piccolo. The latter keeping up with his training is enough of an indicator for me to believe that he at the least maintained what he had during the Cell Games. Although his training may have lacked the intensity necessitated to hit new milestones, I doubt it was counterproductive by any stretch. Meaning, it's extremely unlikely that his power suddenly plummeted down to the point where he could get pushed around by some Dodoria-tier joke.

[h0kuten]

It's easier for a Zaron tier fighter to get to Piccolo's level than it is for a rusty 1rst Form Frieza to get to the level of Beerus.

[Blackstripe]

It's easier for a Zaron tier fighter to get to Piccolo's level than it is for a rusty 1rst Form Freeza to get to the level of Beerus.

This. Keep in mind, Shisami just naturally had a power level of around 22,000. That's higher than even Vegeta, so if he were to bring out all of his potential like Freeza, I don't see why having a level of power comparable to Piccolo is impossible.

[rereboy]

This. Keep in mind, Shisami just naturally had a power level of around 22,000. That's higher than even Vegeta, so if he were to bring out all of his potential like Freeza, I don't see why having a level of power comparable to Piccolo is impossible.

How do you know he just naturally had that power? For all you know he could have trained all his life extensively and started with a power level of 10.

[irreality]

That is the point, though: we don't know anything about Shisami's race. We know there is a wide gamut of powerful races in the DB universe. Maybe he is one of those that can train and increase power rapidly under the right motivation. Maybe his race gets zenkais like Saiyans and Freeza "almost killed him" during training a bunch of times out of anger and he rapidly gained power, something he previously was unwilling to do to himself because he is not insane like Goku and Vegeta. Maybe he ate all his underlings like Cell to gain power because being strong was more important than their lives at this point in the story. Maybe he just needed to train under higher gravity. Who knows?

Characters being crazy strong after brief training is par for the course in DB.

The thing is that if Shisami was as strong as Piccolo in the first place, then reviving Freeza becomes a bit pointless and stupid doesn't it? The movie greatly implies that they need Freeza because he's powerful and he'd be able to win the losing battles the empire is facing. Freeza doesn't have any other qualities besides his power where a revival would be necessary.

Emperors don't rule on raw power alone -- I'm sure his charisma and mercilessness helped a lot just to keep worlds in check, probably. Sorbet has as much charisma as a wet paper towel, and evokes almost as much fear, even if he has crazy strong technology. Also, almost nobody had seen Freeza in his final form before: maybe there were rumors about his power that were greatly exaggerated. Or they figured he had more potential than the rest of them. Or, as explained above, maybe it is a combo of factors: Shisami started out like Dodoria level, became pretty strong in the intervening years (say like intermediate form Freeza), and trained to be even stronger after Freeza's revival so he wouldn't be tossed out some airlock on a whim.

[Blackstripe]

This. Keep in mind, Shisami just naturally had a power level of around 22,000. That's higher than even Vegeta, so if he were to bring out all of his potential like Freeza, I don't see why having a level of power comparable to Piccolo is impossible.

How do you know he just naturally had that power? For all you know he could have trained all his life extensively and started with a power level of 10.

Why would you assume this? My assumption comes from the fact that most of Freeza's henchmen just have their power naturally and training seems almost like a foreign concept to them.

[Khin]

I actually have a theory where Freeza's give his soldiers his dna or something,Freeza know that theres many fighters on earth,he's not that dumb to bring 1000 saibaman tier soldiers and 2 dodoria tier soldiers to his side when he saw even kuririn in namek arc surpassing even the ginyu force

[rereboy]

Why would you assume this? My assumption comes from the fact that most of Freeza's henchmen just have their power naturally and training seems almost like a foreign concept to them.

I don't assume anything because we don't really know anything about him. You are the one assuming. That's the point.

As for training being an alien concept for Freeza's men, I don't see where you got that from since Vegeta worked for Freeza almost all his life and he never acts like training is something weird.

[Neon Z]

Personally, I think the power level comparisons in the beginning of RoF were plainly a mistake. Nothing in the script indicates, directly, that Piccolo is supposed to be weaker now somehow, in fact, it's the exact opposite since the movie shows that Piccolo is still wearing weights - although maybe that moment wasn't in the script? Still, if he were supposed to be weaker, I'd think we'd see that actually brought up directly, like in Gohan's case.

If we want to count those though, then I'd guess Shisami, after the 4 months, could be around where Freeza was originally, and he stood up to Piccolo because he was already tired by the time he got to him.

Why would you assume this? My assumption comes from the fact that most of Freeza's henchmen just have their power naturally and training seems almost like a foreign concept to them.

I don't assume anything because we don't really know anything about him. You are the one assuming. That's the point.

As for training being an alien concept for Freeza's men, I don't see where you got that from since Vegeta worked for Freeza almost all his life and he never acts like training is something weird.

Vegeta never acts like training is a foreign concept, but Freeza's soldiers like Cui, Zarbon and Dodoria were clearly surprised by his power level having risen compared to before. Now, that was due to near death power ups, not training, but it shows that they aren't used to someone's power level just rising above it's known number. Jeice's and Ginyu's reaction to Goku's power was speculating that he was a mutant like them (the Ginyu force), which yet again seems to suggest that the power of Freeza's men was mostly natural rather than rising through years of training.

[rereboy]

Vegeta never acts like training is a foreign concept, but Freeza's soldiers like Cui, Zarbon and Dodoria were clearly surprised by his power level having risen compared to before. Now, that was due to near death power ups, not training, but it shows that they aren't used to someone's power level just rising above it's known number. Jeice's and Ginyu's reaction to Goku's power was speculating that he was a mutant like them (the Ginyu force), which yet again seems to suggest that the power of Freeza's men was mostly natural rather than rising through years of training.

With the power-up, Vegeta was now as strong or stronger than them, which was unheard of for a saiyan. That's what surprised them, not the fact that training exists.

[supercat]

This. Keep in mind, Shisami just naturally had a power level of around 22,000. That's higher than even Vegeta, so if he were to bring out all of his potential like Freeza, I don't see why having a level of power comparable to Piccolo is impossible.

One scene of Shisami training, or even a verbal recognition for that matter is all that is necessitated to solve the mysterious behind the red-bull looking alien's ability to fight on par with Piccolo.

[Blackstripe]

This. Keep in mind, Shisami just naturally had a power level of around 22,000. That's higher than even Vegeta, so if he were to bring out all of his potential like Freeza, I don't see why having a level of power comparable to Piccolo is impossible.

One scene of Shisami training, or even a verbal recognition for that matter is all that is necessitated to solve the mysterious behind the red-bull looking alien's ability to fight on par with Piccolo.

It would be nice, wouldn't it?

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

Theory 1: Piccolo absorbed Nail and Kami in bad states. One was dying and the other was suffering from old age. We can observe that he has been regressing since the Buu sga, so Nail and Kami were dying inside him so to speak, killing the effects of the fusions. Where would Piccolos PL be without those fusions? Could be said to be roughly around Zarbon/Dodoria's level. I hate this theory it turns Piccolo into fodder.

This would mean Tien, Krillin, and even Yamcha would be stronger than Piccolo if his power level dropped to low 10,000's. Krillin in the Frieza Saga wasn't far from 100k after a few boosts. The humans in the Buu saga likely reach millions.

There's also another problem with that theory. Piccolo did tons of training, not to mention training with Goku (who is a SSJ) before the Android Saga. He went from over 1,000,000 to ???,???,??? (somewhere between 100 million and 200 million) in about 4 years. Initially, his fusion with Nail only granted Piccolo over 900,000 battle power when he faced Frieza.