Goku's speech to Freeza

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:22 pm

Well, after Schemmel's handy work, you have to definitely agree with them.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:26 pm

Dayspring wrote:At BEST he'd be two-dimensional (using the "evolution of Goku's intelligence" thingy in daizenshuu 7)

How's that go? A graph from "extremely stupid" to "slightly stupid"?

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:33 pm

Things like at first he was too stupid to know what Chichi meant by marriage and in the end he was using tricks like offering Bulma up to Rou Kaioshin cuz he was smart enough to know about perverts at that point.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:40 pm

That's quite a change when you really look at it actually.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:43 pm

But not in terms of psychology or emotion, which is what defines a character as round. (It is a change though so I'll give you two-dimensional)

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:47 pm

I'm agreeing with Dayspring. Just because he's not 50s US comic book corny, doesn't mean Goku's not as two-dimensional as they come.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:48 pm

No, you misunderstood. I meant I change in his level of naivety, not psychologically or emotionally.

Post by **TripleRach** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:10 pm

Dayspring wrote:
He's not at all like the cheesy one-dimensional heroes you see in old comics or cartoons.
What are you talking about?! He's the very model of the idiotic dogooder. Making him one-dimensional. At BEST he'd be two-dimensional (using the "evolution of Goku's intelligence" thingy in daizenshuu 7), but there's no way he's a round character with emotional and psychological growth like Tenshinhan, Piccolo, Vegeta and even Gohan. He stays as is throughout all 42 volumes of the manga.

I'm not saying he's really deep or goes through all kinds of growth and change through the series. What I mean is, he's not all, "HELLO EVILDOER, I AM HERE TO FIGHT FOR JUSTICE!" He's just stupid, when it comes down to it. He's so innocent and naive because he's too simple-minded to have the things that result in evil, like greed, pride, etc. I think it was Baba that compared him to being like a baby or an animal, when he survived Akkuman's attack. But even in being so good, he doesn't always fight simply for righting wrongs. His love for fighting motivates him to do tons of things, too.

That's all my interpretation, anyway. I didn't mean to say he wasn't one-dimensional at all; I was just saying that he's not like the other older geeky heroes.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 5:38 pm

That's all my interpretation, anyway. I didn't mean to say he wasn't one-dimensional at all; I was just saying that he's not like the other older geeky heroes.

No, you misunderstood. I meant I change in his level of naivety, not psychologically or emotionally.

That's all fine and dandy, but unless a character undergoes a psychological and emotional change of some sort then they're defined as one-dimensional.

That's why I disagreed with you earlier when you all just flat out and said he wasn't.

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:14 pm

We can all agree that Goku isnt the brains of the operation.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:24 pm

I haven't seen the Japanese version of that episode, but I saw the manga and I like both versions. Schemmel's speech in one of the cut scenes in Budokai which is close to the manga sounds nice too.

Kanzenshuu

Goku's speech to Freeza

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