What´s the obsession with DB needing to be "serious" ?

[Ree]

I personally have no problem with it being goofy i mean the Hunt for the Dragon Balls saga (1-14?) Was goofy and that's the best one imo
The Cell saga was really serious and i think it sucked as it was the anti thesis (?) to DB
Namek saga was a good balance

[ekrolo2]

The Cell arc doesn't suck because it takes itself seriously, it sucks because it relies on every one being a moron to contrive its way into existence. Seriously, have any decision change and it all comes screeching to a halt.

[Ree]

Never said that but if it lightened up a bit it could have been more tolerable i think.

[ekrolo2]

Not really, the story arc starts out about a kid coming from the future where everyones terrible and annihilated, teenagers forcibly turned into murders bots and a giant bug drinking people to death. The arc also never gets so super dark where the audience gets completely apathetic to it as is the case with stuff like Warhammer 40k.

[Ree]

With all of that i think they could have had a bit more humor to balance it out, the only real source of quote unquote "comedy" comes from Mr Satan

[fadeddreams5]

With all of that i think they could have had a bit more humor to balance it out, the only real source of quote unquote "comedy" comes from Mr Satan

Which was the worst part of the saga.

The writing in the saga was awful, but I loved the intrigue. It's in the top 3 for me, but in hindsight, I prefer the saiyan and Namek ones. As a kid, the Cell saga was #1. Kind of ironic, really, but certainly not a coincidence.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

The notion has gotten even messier now that we have Super; I hardly think everyone put off by the newer stuff explicitly wants the series to grow up with them, so much as respecting the Z era's (and prior!) legacy of haphazard character and universe building. It's necessarily light and dark as it is treating Dragon Ball like an ongoing property again versus regurgitating 20+ year old cliches (Super, Toriyama made "Satan saves the world" the punchline of the entire manga. You aren't going to top that) and all but officially endorsing the notion that Dragon Ball has nothing left to offer. And to be fair, we've gotten that, and I at least have good cause to think we will get more when Super moves into new material. Those who want a gristle the series has never had or want to project their adult realities onto these characters, well I can't help them.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball does have nothing left to offer. When it was first created all it had to offer was the perverse, poisonous attitude of an author who only drew it for money and to be a dirty old man. That was thirty years ago. Toriyama is the only person willing to inject an interesting, personal mind into the franchise. Anyone else who likes Dragon Ball is either stuck writing to be marketable and inoffensive or off creating their own work where they can be untethered by the constraints of writing for an established franchise.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Anyone else who likes Dragon Ball is either stuck writing to be marketable and inoffensive or off creating their own work where they can be untethered by the constraints of writing for an established franchise.

Hardly a new phenomenon.

[precita]

Its because most people got into Dragonball Z when they were kids and thought they were watching some cool "violent cartoon" when they saw peoples arms being ripped off, people dying, blood...etc. that was never shown on any American made cartoon in the 90's or early 2000's.

American dub fans thought they were watching some adult show when they were kids. Now as adults they assume that's what it should be.

[Duskp]

As a non-american, I think the original american dub has a lot to do with this.

The impression I get from what I've seen online is that the american dub of the 00s sold Dragon Ball as something much more "violent", "serious", and to use a word of the times, "extreme".
I mean, that "Rock the Dragon" opening, with the battle scenes from the movies, basically shows what I mean.

I got the Brazilian dub, which followed closely the latin-american sub, which had the original soundtrack and barely any script changes. Maybe that's why I naturally see Dragon Ball as something that's full of lighthearted moments.
To me, Battle of Gods was perfectly what I think when I picture "Dragon Ball".

I think maybe that's why some people are taking issue with Super. It's not particularly different from what came before, but the lighthearted presentation might clash with how the american DBZ was presented.

[Chuquita]

I think it lot of it goes back to the Cell arc; that was the one big Z arc to be super-serious all the way through. Some people really liked that and want to see another arc like it, I guess.


I tend to prefer the lighter stuff myself, but my opinion is if they ever do another serious arc, then just do it and don't bait-switch like I feel they did in F. I really thought Freeza was gonna make Vegeta come with him, then blow up Earth anyway and we'd cliffhanger there into the next movie, but instead they had Whis rewind time and fix everything with no consequences.

Yeah, if Toei puts up the front of "this is going to be serious" then I want them to actually follow through on it. If they want to stay light, that's fine too, just no more bait-and-switch please.

[fadeddreams5]

Its because most people got into Dragonball Z when they were kids and thought they were watching some cool "violent cartoon" when they saw peoples arms being ripped off, people dying, blood...etc. that was never shown on any American made cartoon in the 90's or early 2000's.

American dub fans thought they were watching some adult show when they were kids. Now as adults they assume that's what it should be.

It's not that adults assume that's how it should be. It just so happens that it literally was that, and it's that portion of the story that's most popular (Piccolo-Cell saga, though Buu saga is debatable). This isn't a case of people being biased towards new material in favor of something they grew up with; Super just isn't anything like it. Anyone can still enjoy it, but the tone and emphasis are simply not the same.

I got into this show because it was pretty damn serious a lot of times. That intrigue kept me anticipating every single episode. A lot of the comedy made me laugh, but that's not at all why I watched. And, honestly, I believe most young boys are attracted to the same sort of tension and action. When my 8 year old nephew watched Digimon, he reacted most when the villain possessed innocent digimon and was about to defeat the cast, anticipating the next episode to see how they manage to win. He found Devimon and Myotismon scary, but cool, but didn't like Etemon (the sort of villain I'd expect from modern DBZ) at all. Barely reacted to comedic/downtime scenes, though wasn't annoyed or bored by them either. Same sort of thing happened when we watched Power Rangers. He was most interested when the green ranger was mopping everyone up. That sort of tension and "diabolical" villain is just appealing.

[FoolsGil]

Blame Toriyama, the genre shift happened when Krillin was killed by Tambourine.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

For people like myself, the seriousness is the only time where the storylines and background world building is actually fleshed out enough for something of meaning and depth to occur. Whenever the story is set to be light-hearted and episodic, it ends up having nothing to support a context to any of the events, Characters get stuck in their own cliche's because nothing forces them to react differently to a situation they aern't in control of, not to mention it takes away the need to push for something new to add to the series.

To me DB works better when the gags are pop-ins or breaks from action, not the set up for action. Thus why I like Super's Beerus as opposed to BoG's Beerus, because of his selectively apathetic while patient tone. He always keeps changing the playing field for Goku. There are things he can get away with (him having some humour to his arrogance) but he always balances that out with his set determination a lot like Freeza & super Buu. If Beerus was like Gotenks or Fat Buu the story wouldn't feel like its going anywhere relevant, and suspense dies quickly in DBZ if nothing is enough of a threat to them let alone a convincing threat to the audience. I got quickly sick of super holding that slice of life one a bit too long early in because it felt dragging and stalling.

Light-hearted only works when they have a reason to be, or when they have the room for it from plot convenience; (Z fighters playing cards while Gotenks vs. Buu in the RoST) worked because it was brief, funny and justifiable. The entire plot wasn't centered around their card game or the Ginyu Force playing 20 minutes of Rock-Paper-Scissors. Especially with Pilaf that accomplished absolutely nothing since re-introduced.There is nothing supporting his role.

[Son Edo]

I don't want it to be super serious all the time, I want it to know when to be serious.

Yup.

And Gotenks vs Boo was rubbish. Please, no gag battles like that ever again.

[ABED]

For people like myself, the seriousness is the only time where the storylines and background world building is actually fleshed out enough for something of meaning and depth to occur.

The 21st Tenkaichi Budokai is light, but the characters still grow. Does something have to be "meaningful" or "deep" for you to enjoy it or for something to be good?

[OkamiTakahashi]

For me, there needs to be a balance of action and humor. DB Super gets that balance just right. Battle of Gods does not. I don't know about Revival of F though since I did not see it.

[Doctor.]

For people like myself, the seriousness is the only time where the storylines and background world building is actually fleshed out enough for something of meaning and depth to occur.

The 21st Tenkaichi Budokai is light, but the characters still grow. Does something have to be "meaningful" or "deep" for you to enjoy it or for something to be good?

The Red Ribbon Army too.

[Black_Anime_Fan]

It doesn't need to be serious all the time, but it doesn't need to be humorous all the time either. DB has evolved a lot since the mid 80s, do you want just the same old light hearted, humorous and campy storytelling which just seemed off in Battle of Gods? The series evolved, and so should its tone, and that's just good storytelling which is why I thought the Buu Saga felt like a step backwards. Resurrection F gave me hope after Battle of Gods