Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[apex_pretador]

I just feel from the fight that nappa was closer to goku than piccolo

[apex_pretador]

By the way, since we're talking about the Saiyan Arc.
Where do you guys have:
Piccolo - 2600
Tenshinhan - 1650
Yamcha - 1300
Kuririn - 1600
Yajirobe - less than 1000
Chiaotzu - less than 1000
Gohan(including Oozaru) - 981 , 1100 , Ozaru 6000

[apex_pretador]

If you want an actual argument for the 4,000 number, there is the fact that at the end of Goku's and Nappa's confrontation Goku was completely uninjured. Seeing how Nappa failed to hit Goku even once, even after calming down, their not gonna be terribly close. Heck, Gohan, Kuririn, and Piccolo were all able to score hits and deal visible damage to Nappa earlier in the Saiyan arc, and they weren't close to him at all. Sure is was superficial damage, but it was damage. That's better than what Nappa accomplished against Goku, aka nothing. As far as Vegeta letting Nappa fight Goku despite knowing Goku has a superior battle power, I write that off as Vegeta, who does not care about Nappa, using the fight to gauge Goku's strength and observe his fighting style, and possibly hoping that Goku tires himself out so he'll be less of a threat once Nappa falls.

Be honest with yourself, stop thinking about numbers for a moment , close your eyes & ask yourself - do you really think that Nappa was closer to piccolo than goku? I'm not saying that nappa is on same level as goku, but you really thing manga implies piccolo to be closer to nappa than goku?

Piccolo couldn't do any damage to nappa, while nappa, after fighting all day , was able to worry goku with his best attack, who needed to counter it quickly with a kamehameha (even uncharged, it was still KHH).

Context: after Kuririn’s ki blast doesn’t faze Nappa or Vegeta
Kuririn: “I…I did that at full-power!!! So this is what Saiyans are!!”
Tenshinhan: “The ground!!! The ground’s shaking!!!”
Chaozu: “Ten!!! My powers don’t work!!!”
Piccolo: “I never thought it would be so much!!!”

Everyone, especially piccolo, is astonished of nappa's power.

Chapter: 217 (DBZ 23), P7.6
Context: after Nappa beats up on Tenshinhan
Piccolo: “Wh-what power…!”

See how shocked is piccolo. Nappa is not near him.

Chapter: Chapter 218(DBZ 24), P14.3
Context: after Nappa isn’t injured by Tenshinhan’s Kikoho
Piccolo: “He-he’s a damn monster…”

Chapter: Chapter 219(DBZ 25), P1.2
Context: still after Nappa isn’t hurt by the Kikoho
Piccolo: “It…it can’t be…Is h-he immortal…!?”

I think these quotes are more than enough to prove that piccolo isn't even close to nappa

Chapter: Chapter 219(DBZ 25), P3.3-5
Kuririn: “…You have a li…little confidence that we’ll win, right?”
Piccolo: “I have none…! I didn’t think they’d be this monstrous…They’re far greater than the Saiyan who came before…”

No confidence. I think Manga speaks bigger than guidebooks.

Chapter: 226 (DBZ 32), P7.4/P8.1-4
Context: after Goku deflects Nappa's mouth blast
Vegeta: “Unbelievable!! To instantly deflect it at that short of a distance!”
Goku: “Phew. If I had taken that one head on, I’d have been in trouble!!”

Vegeta, who has seen goku is seemingly "over 8000" and has showed in this fight so far that the reading was correct, was shoched that "over 8000" goku can easily deflect it with his attack.
Goku says he'd be in trouble if he took it head on.

Chapter: 221 (DBZ 27), P1-2
Context: Piccolo grabs Nappa's tail, but Nappa is unfazed and elbows him in the head
Nappa: “That’s too bad...Even the greatest masters on this planet get reduced to this after just one blow.”

Nappa can one-shot piccolo

[apex_pretador]

A list with the final villain having 120 million for each arc :

Dragon ball:

Spoiler:

BoDb goku - 100
Yamcha - 80
Krillin - 60

21st TB Goku - 1800
Krillin's bully - 500
Krillin - 1200
Yamcha - 800

Tao pai pai - 4800
post karin goku - 6500

22nd TB Yamcha - 12000
Krillin - 15,000
Roshi - 30,000
Goku - 55,000
Tien - 55,000
Goku (zenkai) - 70,000
Old daimao - 120,000 , FP - 300,000
Tamburine - 25,000
Drum - 200,000
Tien - 75,000

Young piccolo - 1,000,000
Goku (zenkai) - 400,000
FP Young piccolo - 3,000,000
Goku (god water) - 4,000,000 (10x)
Popo - 12,000,000
Kami - 30,000,000

23rd TB Cyborg tao - 120,000 , super dodonpa - 300,000
23rd TB Tien - 6,000,000 , full speed - 8,000,000
Yamcha - 2,000,000
Krillin - 3,000,000

Weighted goku - 6,000,000 , unweighted - 12,000,000
Shen (kami) - 20,000,000

Piccolo jr (Full power) - 120,000,000
Goku - 125,000,000 (full power) , 180,000,000 (super kamehameha)

Saiyan to Freeza arc:

See signature. Same as my official list.

Android arc:

Spoiler:

Krillin - 70,000
Tien - 65,000
Roshi - 1500
Chiatzu - 8,000
Yamcha - 56,000

Gohan - 200,000
SS Trunks - 4,500,000
Piccolo - 3,800,000
SS vegeta - 5,300,000
#19 - 1,000,000
Gero - 2,000,000

#18 - 6,800,000
#17 - 7,400,000
Kamiccolo (weight) - 7,000,000 , FP - 7,600,000
Cell - 6,000,000 , post - 15,000,000
#16 - 15,100,000

Semi cell - 24,000,000 , FP - 30,000,000
Super vegeta - 38,000,000

Perfect Cell - 45,000,000
Goku (56%) - 45,000,000

CG Piccolo - 50,000,000
CG vegeta / trunks - 60,000,000
CG Goku - 80,000,000
Cell jr - 63,000,000

Gohan - 88,000,000 , SS2 - 176,000,000
Perfect cell - 81,000,000 (vs goku) , 90,000,000 (vs gohan) , 120,000,000 (Full power) , 160,000,000 (SPC)

Buu arc:

Spoiler:

Krillin - 25,000
Piccolo - 10,000,000
SS gohan - 9,500,000
Kaioshin - 11,000,000
SS2 gohan - 19,000,000

Yakon - 800,000
SS goku - 14,000,000
SS vegeta - 11,000,000 , Majin - 14,000,000
Pui Pui - 15,000
SS2 goku . Majin vegeta - 28,000,000
Dabura - 16,000,000

Fat buu - 38,000,000 , post split - 30,000,000
Skinny buu - 55,000,000
Super buu - 170,000,000 , buccolo - 180,000,000 , Buutenks - 380,000,000 , Buuhan - 400,000,000

SS gotenks (post) - 100,000,000 , SS3 - 200,000,000
Gohan - 220,000,000

Super vegetto - 1,000,000,000

Buff buu - 210,000,000
Kid buu - 120,000,000
Goku SS3 FP - 112,000,000
Satan - 9

Gold freeza arc:

Spoiler:

Roshi - 1500
Krillin - 12,000
Shisami - 31,000
Piccolo - 60,000
Base gohan - 70,000 , Super Saiyan - 350,000 , enraged - 700,000

Tagoma - 95,000 , Ginyu - 120,000

Freeza - 530,000
Freeza - 3,500,000 , golden - 120,000,000
Goku / vegeta - 4,000,000 , SSB - 100,000,000
Beerus - very high
Whis - very high

[apex_pretador]

On to other business, how strong do you guys think Dabra is? I've seen him placed as high as above Perfect Cell or as low as being under Super Saiyan Gohan. Go ahead, i want to see your opinions.

I put him a bit above perfect cell.

PC 11
Dabra 13
SS2 adult gohan 15
SPC 16
SS2 kid gohan 18

[apex_pretador]

Yajirobe - 800
Chaozu - 1,000
Son Gohan - 1,307
Yamcha - 1,350
Kuririn - 1,625
Tenshinhan - 1,750
Piccolo - 2,500


How powerful do you guys have Tenshinhan's Shin Kikoho (against Semi Cell)? Do you guys think it would have destroyed #17/#18/#16/Imperfect Cell?

I think it was extremely powerful & would've destroyed all transformations of freeza & even pre-death vegeta.
I also think that it'd hurt initial true form freeza a bit.

[apex_pretador]

It would've wiped all of the Androids out.

Tien: 160,000
Neo Kikoho: 1,600,000,000
Semi-Cell: 2,400,000,000

Then I suppose that the obvious question is "why didn't he use it after 18 beat Vegeta? " I mean, what did he have to gain from holding back while 17 was taking them apart?

exactly.

Shin kikoho could've wiped out tien though

[apex_pretador]

When Imperfect Cell showed himself while Piccolo was fighting #17, Tenshinhan said that it's all over. After this, he dicided he would help Piccolo, but called himself useless. I don't think this is the way someone who has an ace up his sleeve would act, even more if it could kill #17/18/Imperfect Cell. When Tenshinhan was defeated by #17, he even called the situation hopeless... I find it hard the 3 eyes could have defeated #17 all of a sudden.

But the Shin Kikoho seems to be at least stronger than that super powerful Piccolo's attack, which did not cause nothing to Imperfect Cell, while Ten's Neo Tri Beam was able to push Semi Cell.

Piccolo's attack also "pushed" cell

[apex_pretador]

Beerus - 100

SS vegetto (BoG) / SS3 vegetto (buu) - 1

SSG - 50
SS (post god) - 50
Base (BoG) - 1-10
Base (post BoG) - 0.8 , SS - 40

Base (RoF) - 1
SS - 50
SSB - 60

Base (U6) - 1.1
SS - 55
SSB - 66

________________________________________________________
Freeza - 0.8
Golden - 64

Frost :

• 0.4
• 1.4
• 4

Botamo - 15 billion (scouter numbers)
First form freeza - 50 billon (scouter numbers)
Buuhan - 47 billion
Janemba - 13 billion

[apex_pretador]

On the other hand.Do you guys think Innocent Boo is only around 2x stronger than SSj2 Teen Gohan because Gohan's power filled about half of Boo's power ?

a bit over 2x

this puts buu around 1.6x majin vegeta, and around 40% of SS3 goku.
Enraged majin buu is a lot stronger though, with pre spilt being over 2x majin vegeta & post split being 1.6x majin V

[apex_pretador]

On the other hand.Do you guys think Innocent Boo is only around 2x stronger than SSj2 Teen Gohan because Gohan's power filled about half of Boo's power ?

Pretty much. He's strong enough to easiky crush the SS2s, but Goku says he could've killed him at SS3.

Then he would've done so. Despite Boo's regeneration and tougher body, it's shown that a big enough power difference lets you completely trounce him no problem. If Fat Boo was only twice as strong as Gohan, Goku should've been curb stomping him the same way Vegetto does to Boohan later given the difference of power between SSJ2 Teen Gohan & SSJ3 Goku.

I'm not a human who is even supposed to be here. I don't belong here. Earth needs new protectors in form of 7 yr old kids

[apex_pretador]

Piccolo: 480,000,000,000 (?????)

Where emerge these numbers ??
The reason of all these power Up?

Who said piccolo = 480 billon?
We don't even know how strong is current piccolo & there is no way he can be > vegetto before U6 arc.

[apex_pretador]

In my opinion, guys like Frost and Botamo are much weaker than people think.
On the basis of what has been seen, I consider them weaker than Buu

Frost > base goku , while a weaker version of base goku was having upperhand on final form freeza.

[apex_pretador]

In my opinion, guys like Frost and Botamo are much weaker than people think.
On the basis of what has been seen, I consider them weaker than Buu

Frost > base goku , while a weaker version of base goku was having upperhand on final form freeza.

Who says that was using his divine ki? Nobody.

yeah, he wasn't using SSB.

[apex_pretador]

I'm pretty sure that he was not using any form of divine ki (otherwise, it would turn into SSB)
That form the basis, could well be the classic basic form, that of DBZ. So, Botamo and Frost could easily be under Cell-tier (people that Piccolo could face)

Goku "fully merged with god ki and made it his own ki" according to BoG , beerus & AT.

There is no way that goku will be suppressed to like million times weaker than himself.

[apex_pretador]

Goku "fully merged with god ki and made it his own ki" according to BoG , beerus & AT.

There is no way that goku will be suppressed to like million times weaker than himself.

To paraphrase: he can use the ki divine when he wants, but nothing prevents its suppression.

According to the facts:
- Base with God ki = SSJB
- Classic Base = SSJ (what we see)

Also, in the tournament he fights with no aura, compared to his Revival of F "Beyond God" showings.

But given that how badly was SS goku stomping frost , and it seems like piccolo , who is stronger than mystic gohan , is weaker than frost, I doubt this is the case.

[apex_pretador]

Piccolo stronger than Mystic Gohan? How?
After BoG, we no see any more Gohan use that power.

Gohan :"Please, I want to fight, I want to show results of my training"

Obviously, goku has seen results of mystic gohan , and if gohan is any weaker than that, he will be unimpressed.
So, base gohan (U6 arc) >= ultimate gohan

Piccolo was having the upperhand in their sparring match , so piccolo >= mystic gohan

[apex_pretador]

Piccolo stronger than Mystic Gohan? How?

Obviously, goku has seen results of mystic gohan , and if gohan is any weaker than that, he will be unimpressed.
So, base gohan (U6 arc) >= ultimate gohan

No, because Goku knows perfectly well that Gohan has weakened since then.
In FnF, in fact, he can not use, nearly, even the ssj.

Goku may "know" that , but he didn't put much thought into it, as seeing how he left just after the battle, & revival of piccolo, to train again with whis.

Also, why would be goku impressed if he's weaker than he was 6 yrs ago?

"Hell, you were stronger than this 6 yrs ago, gohan. Was it all you were so eager to show-off about? Too bad"

[apex_pretador]

Piccolo: 480,000,000,000 (?????)

Where emerge these numbers ??
The reason of all these power Up?

It's just my preliminary number based on the NEP. Frost is having trouble hitting Piccolo and actually bothering to dodge his attacks. They are not worlds apart.

oh
I won't post my numbers till I watch next ep.

Maybe the next 2 eps can give us a clear idea for it.

[apex_pretador]

An opposite reasoning remains absolutely valid. He has never used his Saiyan Beyond God aura, as its done in RoF

there was nothing mentioned about "Saiyan beyond god"
it has always been base or super saiyan, where SSB was used against freeza.