Freeza's power levels?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:56 am

I still don't see why a 120,000,000-power being would be worried about the Saiyans.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:20 am

Rocketman wrote:I still don't see why a 120,000,000-power being would be worried about the Saiyans.

My thoughts exactly.

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:23 am

Rocketman wrote:I still don't see why a 120,000,000-power being would be worried about the Saiyans.

Dodoria: "Th-The strength of individual Saiya-jins is no match for M-Master Freeza... ...But if many Saiya-jins united...it would be difficult even for him to deal with...Among a small percentage of Saiya-jins...exceptional warriors such as you began to be born...and were increasing in numbers...M-Master Freeza feared that if they were to begin taking power...they wouldn't take orders as the Saiya-jins always had. He decided...it was time to take measures...Master Freeza himself destroyed Planet Vegeta- and your entire race!!"

Zarbon: "What Master Freeza dreaded was a union of all the Saiya-jins! Alone you are nothing!!"

Freeza: "I have an odd premonition...I've been thinking it over...I feel that a very powerful Saiya-jin is developing...and might eventually become a genuine threat...."

Freeza: "The Saiya-jins do indeed seem to have bottomless combat abilities...They improve greatly every time they survive a battle...It does seem absurd that one could ever be a match for me, of course...but I must think of the future and nip the bud while I can...It would be more than a nuisance if they were to become Super Saiya-jins..."

DemonKingPiccolo · Post by **DemonKingPiccolo** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:46 am

Rocketman wrote:I still don't see why a 120,000,000-power being would be worried about the Saiyans.

I agree, but I can also see his point. Freeza at first was worried about them as a whole, not single Saiyans. After he heard about the Super Saiyan, he decided that his empire would be safer without the Saiyans.

When Freeza conquered the Saiyans, they were primative and not very strong. When Freeza heard the Legend of the Super Saiyan from Vegeta, he dismissed it as simple mythology. However, he soon noticed that the Saiyan race was evolving; some Saiyans started to emerge who had power that was considerably higher then expected. This made him reconsider the legend, and think that there was a possibility that the Super Saiyan wasn't simple mythology.

He knew that it would be bad for him either way. Either a group of strong Saiyans revolting against him or the emergence of a Super Saiyan wouldn't be good for him either way.

I just realized that my point was proved in the post above.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:49 am

That';s exactly what I meant. The strongest Saiyans were only 10,000 battle powers - and most were probably around Raditz's level. And their big power was the Giant Ape transformation. SO, how many Saiyans would have to gang up on Freeza, in Giant Ape mode, to do any damage to him? Freeza couldn't have been worried about a prolonged fight - he could just blow up the moon, or even the planet.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:51 am

So in short, he saw how much potential they had, and got nervous about possible future Super Saiyans. So he blew up all but a few of them, two of which went on to become Super Saiyans anyway.

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:06 pm

desirecampbell wrote:The strongest Saiyans were only 10,000 battle powers - and most were probably around Raditz's level.

We don't know how strong the Saiya-jins were, or were becoming. All we know is Vegeta said he was the strongest of them, which is 8,000 higher than your suggested 10,000 ki levels.

And their big power was the Giant Ape transformation. SO, how many Saiyans would have to gang up on Freeza, in Giant Ape mode, to do any damage to him? Freeza couldn't have been worried about a prolonged fight - he could just blow up the moon, or even the planet.

Tyro quoting Dodoria wrote:M-Master Freeza feared that if they were to begin taking power…

To me that's saying the Saiya-jins would gather other races that Freeza was controlling, or planets of people that disliked him as much as the Saiya-jins apparently did, and then all of those people, along with the Saiya-jins would fight back.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:16 pm

Tyro wrote:To me that's saying the Saiya-jins would gather other races that Freeza was controlling, or planets of people that disliked him as much as the Saiya-jins apparently did, and then all of those people, along with the Saiya-jins would fight back.

And if none of them are above 200,000...

DemonKingPiccolo · Post by **DemonKingPiccolo** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:41 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Tyro wrote:To me that's saying the Saiya-jins would gather other races that Freeza was controlling, or planets of people that disliked him as much as the Saiya-jins apparently did, and then all of those people, along with the Saiya-jins would fight back.
And if none of them are above 200,000...

Agree, but they could be with their Oozaru forms if they had evolved enough.

And I also believe that Burdock was the one who worried Freeza. Even though the movie is mostly non-canon, it is the only movie in the series that Toriyama had moderate involvment in. So its "canon-ity" can be disputed. Anyway, Freeza notes him in the Manga too.

Burdock's power was rising to levels that were considered unnatural for his class, so Freeza feared that a Super Saiyan would later emerge.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:23 pm

It wasn't so much the power they had achieved, but the fact they could achieve it so quickly, and his worries came to fruition when Vegeta was suddenly on par with his first stage. It was proof that Saiyans are capable of increasing their strengths at such a rate.

He had no proof before, just suspicions based on a few, and since Freeza is quite smart, he did not ignore the threat. But if a Saiyan could go from 24,000 to near 500,000 in 6 days, I would feel pretty threatened too, even if I was still 200 times stronger than that, because that's a growth of 20 fold in less than a week.

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:26 pm

Duo wrote:But if a Saiyan could go from 24,000 to near 500,000 in 6 days, I would feel pretty threatened too, even if I was still 200 times stronger than that, because that's a growth of 20 fold in less than a week.

I believe you'll find that this argument will fall upon deaf ears to some members here (not me, personally, but quite a few nonetheless), because there really isn't concrete proof Freeza used full power. I, however, can't see a reason why Freeza would hold back his full power against Vegeta. Vegeta (along with some help from Goku, Gohan and Kuririn) killed Kiwi, who Freeza ordered to kill Vegeta (although it’s apparent he didn’t really care for Kiwi), Zarbon and Dodoria, Freeza's right-hand men as it seems, delayed Freeza getting all of the dragon balls by Vegeta getting one of the village‘s balls and hiding it, stole the five dragon balls Freeza had in his own ship by outsmarting Freeza, killed the Ginyu Special Forces, and then when Freeza was so close to immortality, it's stripped away from him when he was a few seconds/a minute away from Porunga. He. Was. Ticked. Why some think he would look at Vegeta and want to use anything less than full power baffles me to no end.

Dragon Ball Daisuki · Post by **Dragon Ball Daisuki** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:37 am

We all know Freeza has a habit of dragging things out ... it's just his personal style. Come now, if his power were really in the hundreds of millions, why would fighters with strength in the tens of THOUSANDS put the sweat on him? Look how he pussy-footed around with a guy like Goku, easily his biggest threat, who, no matter which way you look at it (Kaiouken or no), was functioning in the MILLIONS. And yet, he didn't REALLY do anything to end the battle until the freaking eleventh hour. But by then it was too late anyway.

The Freeza I know would have let the Saiya-jins get closer, let them have hope... and then, just when things were looking good... beat the tar out of them. And pee on their remains.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:58 pm

Duo wrote:It wasn't so much the power they had achieved, but the fact they could achieve it so quickly, and his worries came to fruition when Vegeta was suddenly on par with his first stage. It was proof that Saiyans are capable of increasing their strengths at such a rate.

He had no proof before, just suspicions based on a few, and since Freeza is quite smart, he did not ignore the threat. But if a Saiyan could go from 24,000 to near 500,000 in 6 days, I would feel pretty threatened too, even if I was still 200 times stronger than that, because that's a growth of 20 fold in less than a week.

I just don't see Freeza as going "Oh my, these guys with powers under 20,000 could eventually surpass my power that is more than 6,000 times greater than them, and entirely without my noticing and being able to stop it before an individual got that strong! I'd better wipe them out!"

Yes, the events on Namek proved that a Saiya-jin can get really strong really fast. But it also proved that such a thing only happens when you're an idiot and let them. If Freeza had just left Zarbon kill Vegeta instead of heal him that would have been that.

I see someone in the 15 to 30 million range being worried about the Saiya-jins (Vegeta's Oozaru form on Namek, had he still had use of it, would have topped 20 million after all, and even just a few Saiya-jins in the hundred thousands would have been a struggle as Oozarus in anything but his third form or higher) but at 120 million? No, not really. Especially not Freeza. He's cautious but he's also as much of an arrogant and cocky sob as Vegeta.