The Dragon Ball Wiki

[jjgp1112]

Behh, not to be rude toward you SSJGoku93, but most members on these boards really don't take the Dragon Ball Wiki very seriously. The main problem is that most of the editors there seem to only be tuned into and accept Dragon Ball if it's in the Funi Dub, and the Funi dub has fucked the original info up so much that no Funi-based English editor is taken seriously. There are other sources for Dragon Ball in English, and manga is one of them. Also this website as well as Kanzentai are both great sources for original Dragon Ball information.

So as others have said, I think that the Dragon Ball Wiki should more be a source for FUNI's version of Dragon Ball and not the original series from Japan.

Um...you'll actually find that most of the bad info on there has nothing to do with the Funi dub and is just completely made up or false speculation. Just sayin'

[B]

I think the fact that people in this very thread are offering advice and tips for a Wiki dedicated to a version of Dragon Ball they don't even like(while at the same time, higher-ups of said Wiki are snidely blasting them) speaks volumes on how "serious" we take a cartoon. Eh.

[VegettoEX]

I'm sorry, but I can't hold back much more of the arrogance and snark. I did my best with the first response, taking a couple days to piece together my thoughts and re-write things... but I find it all to be wholly ridiculous the more I read.

The majority of responses in that DB Wikia forum thread seem to be from people that are incapable of writing proper sentences, never mind contribute accurate information to a community-based encyclopedia and accept/consider/integrate constructive criticism/feedback. These are not people that, in an ideal world, should be contributing. I used the phrase in my prior response, but it rings true more than ever before -- every response is totally and fully self-serving, having little to do with the value of the resource as a whole, and more to do with pushing their own personal agenda* of "FUNimation > everything else"... at the expense of information accuracy.

(* Yes, you could rightly argue that we totally have own own "agenda" here, in that pushing the original Japanese version as the basis makes the most sense. However, we have a lot more going for us in that regard in terms of sheer logic -- primary source versus adaptation, a hugely lesser degree of contradictions and needless explanations of those contradictions, etc.)

It is a showcase of everything that is wrong with the current state of the DB Wikia... an entity which I knew almost nothing about prior to this, and could read like the back of my hand with little more than a couple days' research.

While I fully believe that a huge portion of what is "wrong" with the DB Wikia is the fact that it uses FUNimation's (old) English dub as its basis, is there any discussion among its members and administrators anywhere about the fact that so much information, if not simply wrong on a base level, is just made up bullshit...? Forget naming an article "TIEN" vs "TENSHINHAN" -- that's the least its problems -- does anyone there even care that so much of what is written is baseless conjecture and absurdity? And on top of that, written like a fourth-grader just found the Internet for the first time?

I'm being very mean. I'll admit it. I may even be unfair. I'm probably being the most realistic, though -- the way DB Wikia is set up right now, it's a complete failure as an accurate resource. It's not worth trying to "fix" the raw logistical problems with it, never mind subjective stuff. It's just not. The reason that Daizenshuu EX and Kanzentai were created in the first place was because we each saw flaws and holes with what was being provided online. We gathered the actual experts, created a community around evidence- and research-based ideals, and are clearly seen as the authority figures in the English-language fandom.

Call us delusional, arrogant, mean, poopie-heads, whatever you want... we're at least striving for something more than "adequate" with what we're offering, and you can expect some pretty slick shit in the future. I wanted to do it anyway for a few years now, but the last couple days of reading this nonsense has me bashing my head against the wall more than I'd like to admit.

It's not like I don't wish the darn thing success and grand improvements... but it seems like the people who happen to have fallen in place as administrators/moderators want to do everything in their power to work against that.

(And yes, B... shit's serious, yo.)

[Questrider]

@Vegetto EX- Nicely said.


In case it wasn't already known, I am the perfect example of the Ultimate Dub fan. I love the score, love the voice acting, blah blah blah and some more shit. I think you get the point.

My purpose for adding my two cents is simple.
The DBZ Wiki is garbage. Even by my standards.
While I fully support the FUNimation version, I have the utmost respect for the source material which is where the Wiki fails.

And honestly, why should we care that the site is so shitty?
We already HAVE our DBZ site!!

Is it because we are bothered by their lack of education on the subject?
Is it because their information is watered down? Is it because their info is wrong on so many levels?
Is it simply because we want them to know how crappy their little site is? Is it because we feel the need to correct them?

Whatever the reason, we should simply let these delusional fools have their beloved Wiki. Eventually, any "good" fan should eventually find themselves here. I did.
I may not be the strongest supporter of the sub, but that's not what is important to me. What's important is finding factual information, discussing all things DBZ in a mature manner, and learning more about the series in general; regardless of what source material you are a fan of.

[Gaffer Tape]

I think the answer to your "why?" questions is simple. We care about the property. We're big enough fans that we happen to care how the property is presented. It's the same reason why, despite the fact that a lot of us simply don't watch DB dubs, we still want them to be good and accurate. The DB Wiki has a lot of clout, it gets a lot of attention. It's one of the first things people on search engines will see. Sadly, whether we like it or not, they represent us. They represent the fandom. And just like I feel compelled to tell outsiders, "No, I don't watch that, I watch this," I also feel compelled to distance myself from that Wiki. But, just like Kai's dub, it'd be better for everyone if the Wiki just didn't suck.

[Herms]

Why do I care the DB wikia is so inaccurate?

Because on a fairly regular basis, someone will make a thread here asking about whether or not some bit of trivia they read on the wikia is true. Inevitably, the answer is "no". This happens all the time. It happened yesterday, for Pete's sake. After awhile, it gets kinda tiresome.

[hleV]

It's easier to find DB Wiki and get wrong info than find DaizEX and get right info.

[Questrider]

I think the answer to your "why?" questions is simple. We care about the property. We're big enough fans that we happen to care how the property is presented. It's the same reason why, despite the fact that a lot of us simply don't watch DB dubs, we still want them to be good and accurate. The DB Wiki has a lot of clout, it gets a lot of attention. It's one of the first things people on search engines will see. Sadly, whether we like it or not, they represent us. They represent the fandom. And just like I feel compelled to tell outsiders, "No, I don't want that, I watch this," I also feel compelled to distance myself from that Wiki. But, just like Kai's dub, it'd be better for everyone if the Wiki just didn't suck.

My "why" questions were meant to be rhetorical.

I get your point though but still don't see why the time should be spent caring. There's tons of people on this very site that still don't have a clue about certain things and so I think it's a question of choosing your battles. As informative as we are here, I've seen 90% of this community all fail on a number of given topics. As right as we are most of the time, even a good part of us on Daizenshuu EX can be completely off base from time to time thus we aren't perfect either. Yeah, it sucks that the Wiki is the be all, end all source for most people who don't know better but as Vegetto EX pointed out- do we really want most of those people over here? (With the bad writting, etc)

I agree that if would be "nice" if the DBZ fandom was represented with a little more class but I think that's what we have going for us here.

And again- if someone is really searching hard enough, those few good seeds will end up here. We can at least hope.

[Hujio]

Forget naming an article "TIEN" vs "TENSHINHAN" -- that's the least of its problems -- does anyone there even care that so much of what is written is baseless conjecture and absurdity?

Like I said yesterday, "DB Wikia is spreading mis-information, and you guys don't care... you just don't care, and it seems you never will." It seems that still holds true today.

After that, I basically agree with everything Mike said. I think we're past the point of trying to casually tip-toe around being mean. Just the shear arrogance from the admins is astounding. To insist on using only English dub terms, but to say you don't need to state you're dedicated to the FUNimation dub of DragonBall is simply preposterous. How can you say, "we're a source for all Dragon Ball info, not just a single dub," without backing everything off of the original Japanese version? How are you going to distinguish everything from each dub? Everything's all mingled together as if they all happened in the same version. A lot of things are altered in various dubs, not just FUNimation's. I'm just so confused, which version of DragonBall are you guys actually covering? And this statement from a DB Wikia admin, "I really think we should leave everything as is on the Wiki." Just priceless. I'm sure you guys will get real far with "fixing" things...

I'll repeat this again. I take issue with how much liberty is taken when writing your articles, so much so that there is a HUGE blur between fact, opinion, and speculation. There are things that are SO misleading, and utterly and completely false, no matter which version of the series you're talking about. I can't recount how many instances I've seen people spout off some fact they read on "DB Wikia", only to be told that it's completely wrong. How can you guys not care that you're misleading fans of a show you apparently love? Is anyone over there even reading what we're writing?!

It's easier to find DB Wiki and get wrong info than find DaizEX and get right info.

Unfortunately, this is true. And unfortunately, they brag about it, not realizing that just because you get a lot of hits thanks to Google doesn't mean you have better information.

[Mountain]

Oh well. That fact that two amazing sites, such as Daizenshuu EX and Kanzentai, exist is enough for me. Some misinformed people will always be misinformed. The individuals who have half a brain will see how much time and dedication you guys put into your sites. I thank you all for your hard work. I can't help but to laugh nearly every visit to the DB Wiki; it really is absurd. I say we should just let them have it their way. At the end of the day, the joke's on them.

[Questrider]

Oh well. That fact that two amazing sites, such as Daizenshuu EX and Kanzentai, exist is enough for me. Some misinformed people will always be misinformed. The individuals who have half a brain will see how much time and dedication you guys put into your sites. I thank you all for your hard work. I can't help but to laugh nearly every visit to the DB Wiki; it really is absurd. I say we should just let them have it their way. At the end of the day, the joke's on them.

I second this notion.
It's like trying to help the alchoholic who doesn't want any help.
If they don't care, why should you?

(Obviously, we DO care, but...)

I agree that they should take pride in what information is displayed on their site, (and it's sad that they give this fandom a bad name) but it's painfully obvious that these things aren't all that important to them.

[Herms]

OK, so I started trying to review the DB wikia article on Saiyans, but got sidetracked into dissecting their article on the “original Saiyan home world”, so the main article will have to wait until later.

Original Saiyan Home World, sometimes called Planet Saiyan (サイヤ人星, Wakusei Saiya-jin or Saiya-sei), was the native planet of the Saiyans. It is located somewhere in the far reaches of space and has an atmosphere appearing brown in color.

First, the name of the alleged original Saiyan home world is “Planet Saiya” (サイヤ星/Saiya-sei), not “Planet Saiyan”. Note the lack of a 人/jin in the name. Saiya-jin means “people of Saiya”, and so logically the Saiyans would hypothetically hail from a place called Saiya, just as Americans come from America, and not someplace that is itself called “American”.

The term wakusei Saiya-jin is never used anywhere. In Japanese it would be written 惑星サイヤ人, but this is not shown in the article. Instead, the article gives the impression that サイヤ人星/Saiya-jin Sei can potentially be read as Wakusei Saiya-jin, which is completely incorrect (and again, the 人/jin shouldn’t be in there at all).

I have no idea where the picture supposedly of Planet Saiya on the right comes from, but it’s apparently the source for the article’s claim that Planet Saiyan had a brown atmosphere. The article really needs to say what episode that screenshot is taken from.

Anyway, where does the name “Planet Saiya” come from in the first place? It’s from the GT Perfect Files vol.1, page 74.

Where is the Saiyans’ true homeland?
The mysterious “Planet Saiya”
Planet Vegeta (formally Planet Plant) was originally the Tsufruians’ planet, and not the homeland of the Saiyans. The roots of the Saiya are unknown, and all that is recorded is that “the primitive Saiyans drifted to Planet Plant on a mysterious spaceship”. Perhaps the launching point of that spaceship could possibly itself be the Saiyans’ true homeland. And just maybe the Saiyans’ home world still exists somewhere in space!?

That’s it. Note the extreme uncertainty throughout the whole thing. Maybe there’s a “Planet Saiya” (a provisional name) that the Saiyans came from, and maybe it’s still out there somewhere.

Compare that vagueness and uncertainty to the article which is supposedly based on that quote:

Around 238 Before Age, the Original Super Saiyan destroyed the planet with his own power thus driving them off. The remaining Saiyans were forced to build a spaceship and leave for a new planet. After an unknown series of events in space, they eventually arrived and remained on Planet Plant the year 550 Age. However, they were forced to share the planet with the native Tuffles, where they lived in the wastelands.

Is this stuff about the original Super Saiyan destroying the Saiyan homeland from the dub, or is it more wikia nonsense? Because unless it’s mentioned in the OVA, it’s not anywhere in the original anime.

Eventually, King Vegeta led the Saiyans into battle in the Saiyan-Tuffle war, in which the Tuffles were all but wiped out after transforming into Great Apes. The Saiyans took the planet for themselves, renaming it Planet Vegeta after their leader. The planet is only briefly mentioned by King Kai, in a flashback, when he tells the history of the planet to Goku.

I can’t tell if that last sentence means that Kaio mentioned the original Saiyan homeland in the flashback episode, or Planet Vegeta. If it means the original Saiyan homeland, then it’s false, or dub-only. If they mean Planet Vegeta, then it’s completely false to say that the planet is only briefly mentioned in Kaio’s flashback. Planet Vegeta is mentioned countless other times.

I love how that first sentence is so poorly worded that it seems to say that the Tuffles themselves transformed into Great Apes, and that this somehow led to their destruction.

The Dragon Ball GT Perfect Files mentions the planet, saying that it is named planet Saiyan and that it still exists, unharmed by the end of Dragon Ball GT. Also, the newly-published Super Exciting Guides mentions the planet as well.

As you can see from the Perfect Files quote above, this is completely false. First, once again the planet is called “Planet Saiya”, not “Saiyan”, and this name is only given for provisionally, in quotation marks. There is nothing that says it “still exists, unharmed”, only that it could possibly still be out there, maybe.
At no point is Planet Saiya mentioned in the Super Exciting Guides. The SEGs are based completely off the manga, while the idea of the Saiyans not originating on Planet Vegeta is found only in the anime.

In Plan to Destroy the Saiyans, it was also mentioned that "the Legendary Super Saiyan had destroyed the original planet of the Saiyans". So it is contradictory.

OK, I admit I haven’t seen the OVA, so I don’t know how true this is. Anyone know? Either way, as mentioned above the Perfect Files are in no way certain on whether Planet Saiya still exists, so there is no contradiction here.

Despite the Perfect Files only saying that the planet is "somewhere in space" (if it exists at all), the bar on the right side of the article confidently asserts that the planet is located in the North Galaxy.

[jjgp1112]

I think the stuff about the Super Saiyan destroying the planet and stuff is just made up. The only thing about the Super Saiyans that the dub added in was the original one not being able to control his power and blowing up as a result.

[Makaioshin]

ns not originating on Planet Vegeta is found only in the anime.

In Plan to Destroy the Saiyans, it was also mentioned that "the Legendary Super Saiyan had destroyed the original planet of the Saiyans". So it is contradictory.

OK, I admit I haven’t seen the OVA, so I don’t know how true this is. Anyone know? Either way, as mentioned above the Perfect Files are in no way certain on whether Planet Saiya still exists, so there is no contradiction here.

Neither the "Legendary Super Saiyan" nor the original planet of the Saiyans is mentioned in the OVA.

[Herms]

Ah OK, thanks guys. So it's just another thing on the DB wikia that's not true in any version of the series.

[SonEric84]

I swear, some of the misinformation sounds like it's from a really bad fanfic.

[MisterFlashdude]

I also just check the original forum you posted on their website. They are now speaking about the way that most people type in forums, talk pages etc. They say that we always provide wrong information, yet never provide any proof of this.

Pulled this from their forum discussion.

Just... how do you reason with this? This person is clearly talking out of his ass. How do you miss the massive posts in the last few pages tearing apart some of these articles?

I can only imagine this person saw too much text, pulled a "tl;dr", and came to the conclusion no one is backing up their statements.

[B]

Where did you get that quote from, as I can't seem to find it.

[MisterFlashdude]

Where did you get that quote from, as I can't seem to find it.

Yeah, the page is kind of weird in the way it refreshes...
Try here.

Also take a moment to appreciate the accusations of "racism against English speakers and Americans".

[Gaffer Tape]

Wow. That's just... wow.

How about this little gem from 10x Kamehameha:

"On the same topic, many users disapproved of us having articles at all on minor characters and events. I'm guessing this is just a bit of bias stemming from us having articles which the people that made their site do not. Like sort of an, "if we don't have an article for it, then it's not important enough to have an article," kind of thing. This is a case where they are just totally out of line, as our goal is to provide DB info (I don't know what there's is...)."

I could probably make a "Best of (Worst of?)" quote section from that page, but most of it's so incomprehensible that it's not even worth it. I'll just say, "Everything said by SSJ4 Lewich," and leave it at that. Geez, I wonder about some of these people. Most of them are criticizing this thread without having read the mountains upon mountains of legitimate, specific criticism and inaccuracies on their pages. It's there. It's obvious. How do you go back to their site without having noticed any of it?

And I'm still trying to wrap my head about that "racism towards English," line. Um... if the fact that the discussion on these boards takes place solely in English was not enough of a giveaway... a large percentage of users on these boards are native English speakers! It's when people start spouting off ridiculous accusations of "racism" and "weeaboo" or whatever the cool kids are saying these days that I just shut down. There's just no helping some people. We should probably just wait a few years until they grow up and THEN try to help them with their Wiki.